Why does the Common Agricultural Policy exist?












17















The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.



Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?










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  • See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

    – Philipp
    yesterday
















17















The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.



Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?










share|improve this question

























  • See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

    – Philipp
    yesterday














17












17








17


1






The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.



Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?










share|improve this question
















The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.



Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?







european-union agriculture






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share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









JJJ

4,11321940




4,11321940










asked 2 days ago









BenBen

2,3331028




2,3331028













  • See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

    – Philipp
    yesterday



















  • See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

    – Philipp
    yesterday

















See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

– MSalters
yesterday





See also politics.stackexchange.com/questions/18805/… - this is almost a duplicate.

– MSalters
yesterday













Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

– Philipp
yesterday





Comments deleted. Comments should not be used to answer the question. If you would like to answer, please write a real answer which adheres to our standards of quality. And neither should comments be used to discuss the subject matter of the question. For more information about what comments on questions should and should not be used for, please review the help center article about the commenting privilege.

– Philipp
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















29














Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.



So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).






share|improve this answer



















  • 7





    @Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

    – Relaxed
    2 days ago






  • 7





    It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

    – WS2
    2 days ago








  • 4





    @WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

    – sgf
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday






  • 3





    @Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday



















10














Not all of the so-called "CAP" has its primary goal of agricultural output. For example, in the UK there are large areas of land where the weather and soil conditions are only suitable for low-intensity sheep farming. However grazing sheep have been a part of the stable ecosystem of these areas for centuries, and removing them because they are "uneconomic" would cause the entire ecosystem to change dramatically, by destroying important habitats for wildlife, increasing soil erosion and hence changing the ecosystem of downstream river systems, increasing the risk of long-burning peat wildfires, etc.



In effect the farmers in these areas are being subsidized to maintain the environment, not to produce meat and wool.



In fact the policy of subsidies to these areas was changed to focus on the environmental protection issues, since the original payment rules led to environmental damage through attempts at unsustainable over-production to maximize the subsidy payments.



The same also applies in the high-intensity sector of the UK, where subsidies have been awarded to improve the environment in opposition to maximizing output - for example by extending the uncultivated borders of fields to provide wildlife habitats and corridors, maintaining hedgerows rather than replacing them with fences (or removing them completely in arable farming areas) etc.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

    – Matthieu M.
    yesterday






  • 1





    Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • @MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

    – Pere
    yesterday






  • 1





    I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

    – Stephen
    23 hours ago











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









29














Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.



So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).






share|improve this answer



















  • 7





    @Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

    – Relaxed
    2 days ago






  • 7





    It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

    – WS2
    2 days ago








  • 4





    @WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

    – sgf
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday






  • 3





    @Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday
















29














Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.



So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).






share|improve this answer



















  • 7





    @Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

    – Relaxed
    2 days ago






  • 7





    It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

    – WS2
    2 days ago








  • 4





    @WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

    – sgf
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday






  • 3





    @Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday














29












29








29







Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.



So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).






share|improve this answer













Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.



So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









RelaxedRelaxed

16.9k3759




16.9k3759








  • 7





    @Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

    – Relaxed
    2 days ago






  • 7





    It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

    – WS2
    2 days ago








  • 4





    @WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

    – sgf
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday






  • 3





    @Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday














  • 7





    @Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

    – Relaxed
    2 days ago






  • 7





    It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

    – WS2
    2 days ago








  • 4





    @WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

    – sgf
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday






  • 3





    @Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

    – Jontia
    yesterday








7




7





@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

– Relaxed
2 days ago





@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.

– Relaxed
2 days ago




7




7





It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

– WS2
2 days ago







It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.

– WS2
2 days ago






4




4





@WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

– sgf
2 days ago





@WS2 Of course small-scale inefficiency is more resilient, and resilience is a clear strategic goal of farm subsidies.

– sgf
2 days ago




4




4





@Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

– Jontia
yesterday





@Ben this article puts fossil fuels subsidy at 6bn on th UK. google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/…

– Jontia
yesterday




3




3





@Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

– Jontia
yesterday





@Ben and this one puts Rail Industry subsidies at £6.4bn (including 2bn for HS2). orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/39381/…

– Jontia
yesterday











10














Not all of the so-called "CAP" has its primary goal of agricultural output. For example, in the UK there are large areas of land where the weather and soil conditions are only suitable for low-intensity sheep farming. However grazing sheep have been a part of the stable ecosystem of these areas for centuries, and removing them because they are "uneconomic" would cause the entire ecosystem to change dramatically, by destroying important habitats for wildlife, increasing soil erosion and hence changing the ecosystem of downstream river systems, increasing the risk of long-burning peat wildfires, etc.



In effect the farmers in these areas are being subsidized to maintain the environment, not to produce meat and wool.



In fact the policy of subsidies to these areas was changed to focus on the environmental protection issues, since the original payment rules led to environmental damage through attempts at unsustainable over-production to maximize the subsidy payments.



The same also applies in the high-intensity sector of the UK, where subsidies have been awarded to improve the environment in opposition to maximizing output - for example by extending the uncultivated borders of fields to provide wildlife habitats and corridors, maintaining hedgerows rather than replacing them with fences (or removing them completely in arable farming areas) etc.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

    – Matthieu M.
    yesterday






  • 1





    Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • @MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

    – Pere
    yesterday






  • 1





    I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

    – Stephen
    23 hours ago
















10














Not all of the so-called "CAP" has its primary goal of agricultural output. For example, in the UK there are large areas of land where the weather and soil conditions are only suitable for low-intensity sheep farming. However grazing sheep have been a part of the stable ecosystem of these areas for centuries, and removing them because they are "uneconomic" would cause the entire ecosystem to change dramatically, by destroying important habitats for wildlife, increasing soil erosion and hence changing the ecosystem of downstream river systems, increasing the risk of long-burning peat wildfires, etc.



In effect the farmers in these areas are being subsidized to maintain the environment, not to produce meat and wool.



In fact the policy of subsidies to these areas was changed to focus on the environmental protection issues, since the original payment rules led to environmental damage through attempts at unsustainable over-production to maximize the subsidy payments.



The same also applies in the high-intensity sector of the UK, where subsidies have been awarded to improve the environment in opposition to maximizing output - for example by extending the uncultivated borders of fields to provide wildlife habitats and corridors, maintaining hedgerows rather than replacing them with fences (or removing them completely in arable farming areas) etc.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

    – Matthieu M.
    yesterday






  • 1





    Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • @MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

    – Pere
    yesterday






  • 1





    I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

    – Stephen
    23 hours ago














10












10








10







Not all of the so-called "CAP" has its primary goal of agricultural output. For example, in the UK there are large areas of land where the weather and soil conditions are only suitable for low-intensity sheep farming. However grazing sheep have been a part of the stable ecosystem of these areas for centuries, and removing them because they are "uneconomic" would cause the entire ecosystem to change dramatically, by destroying important habitats for wildlife, increasing soil erosion and hence changing the ecosystem of downstream river systems, increasing the risk of long-burning peat wildfires, etc.



In effect the farmers in these areas are being subsidized to maintain the environment, not to produce meat and wool.



In fact the policy of subsidies to these areas was changed to focus on the environmental protection issues, since the original payment rules led to environmental damage through attempts at unsustainable over-production to maximize the subsidy payments.



The same also applies in the high-intensity sector of the UK, where subsidies have been awarded to improve the environment in opposition to maximizing output - for example by extending the uncultivated borders of fields to provide wildlife habitats and corridors, maintaining hedgerows rather than replacing them with fences (or removing them completely in arable farming areas) etc.






share|improve this answer















Not all of the so-called "CAP" has its primary goal of agricultural output. For example, in the UK there are large areas of land where the weather and soil conditions are only suitable for low-intensity sheep farming. However grazing sheep have been a part of the stable ecosystem of these areas for centuries, and removing them because they are "uneconomic" would cause the entire ecosystem to change dramatically, by destroying important habitats for wildlife, increasing soil erosion and hence changing the ecosystem of downstream river systems, increasing the risk of long-burning peat wildfires, etc.



In effect the farmers in these areas are being subsidized to maintain the environment, not to produce meat and wool.



In fact the policy of subsidies to these areas was changed to focus on the environmental protection issues, since the original payment rules led to environmental damage through attempts at unsustainable over-production to maximize the subsidy payments.



The same also applies in the high-intensity sector of the UK, where subsidies have been awarded to improve the environment in opposition to maximizing output - for example by extending the uncultivated borders of fields to provide wildlife habitats and corridors, maintaining hedgerows rather than replacing them with fences (or removing them completely in arable farming areas) etc.







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edited 2 days ago

























answered 2 days ago









alephzeroalephzero

65448




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  • 5





    In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

    – Matthieu M.
    yesterday






  • 1





    Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • @MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

    – Pere
    yesterday






  • 1





    I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

    – Stephen
    23 hours ago














  • 5





    In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

    – Matthieu M.
    yesterday






  • 1





    Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

    – MSalters
    yesterday











  • @MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

    – Pere
    yesterday






  • 1





    I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

    – Stephen
    23 hours ago








5




5





In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

– Matthieu M.
yesterday





In short, farmers are partly turning into the state's gardeners :)

– Matthieu M.
yesterday




1




1





Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

– MSalters
yesterday





Mind you, that risk of soil erosion is there because those sheep farmers first cut down the trees. The true environment would have been a forest, but the CAP doesn't pay for that.

– MSalters
yesterday













@MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

– Pere
yesterday





@MSalters - "True" environment is not always the best environment. For example, in some countries pastures are disppearing because they turn into intensive agriculture or, interestingly, woods, when pastures are abandoned. To keep diversity, the goal is not to maximize the area of woods (the "true" environment) but to keep some pastures to mantain biodiversity.

– Pere
yesterday




1




1





I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

– Stephen
23 hours ago





I find it curious, the notion of a "true" environment. As though there is something special about the random scattering of prehistoric seeds on the wind falling on fertile soil. Certainly an environment that consists of wheat grass is much better than the same land being covered varieties of weed grasses.

– Stephen
23 hours ago


















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