What sets the resolution of an analog resistive sensor?












3












$begingroup$


When I read about film or silicon strain gauges their data-sheets mentions about their resolution.



But in analog world what sets the resolution? For example if you vary a potentiometer the output voltage changes accordingly so one can say there is relation between the rotation and the output voltage which would be a continous function not quantized.



Can you give an example which would explain the resolution concept for strain-gauge?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
    $endgroup$
    – Andy aka
    13 hours ago
















3












$begingroup$


When I read about film or silicon strain gauges their data-sheets mentions about their resolution.



But in analog world what sets the resolution? For example if you vary a potentiometer the output voltage changes accordingly so one can say there is relation between the rotation and the output voltage which would be a continous function not quantized.



Can you give an example which would explain the resolution concept for strain-gauge?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
    $endgroup$
    – Andy aka
    13 hours ago














3












3








3





$begingroup$


When I read about film or silicon strain gauges their data-sheets mentions about their resolution.



But in analog world what sets the resolution? For example if you vary a potentiometer the output voltage changes accordingly so one can say there is relation between the rotation and the output voltage which would be a continous function not quantized.



Can you give an example which would explain the resolution concept for strain-gauge?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




When I read about film or silicon strain gauges their data-sheets mentions about their resolution.



But in analog world what sets the resolution? For example if you vary a potentiometer the output voltage changes accordingly so one can say there is relation between the rotation and the output voltage which would be a continous function not quantized.



Can you give an example which would explain the resolution concept for strain-gauge?







resolution






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 13 hours ago









panic attackpanic attack

370111




370111








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
    $endgroup$
    – Andy aka
    13 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
    $endgroup$
    – Andy aka
    13 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
Link to a data sheet that talks about strain gauge resolution please.
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
13 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















9












$begingroup$

If we define resolution of an analog measurement as the smallest change which can be detected, there are some limiting factors. In this case, we're talking about change in strain, not the resulting change in resistance, though obviously they are related.



For the sensor itself, there are factors such as temperature coefficent, hysteresis, 1/f noise (drift) and Johnson-Nyquist (white) noise. The white noise effect can be mitigated by reducing the bandwidth, but then 1/f noise becomes more important, so even if you have no constraint on the time to take a measurement you can't reduce the noise effect without limit.



To the extent you can know the temperature (and to the extent that it's consistent over the element) and you know the strain history you may be able to compensate partially for some of those factors.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    2












    $begingroup$

    The resolution is determined by the instrument used to measure the effective resistance.



    A given resistive sensor would be characterized by its precision (the repeatibility of measurements under identical conditions) and its accuracy (how well the change in resistance truly reflects the change in strain). Over the range of measurements you could also talk about the linearity of the sensor.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
      $endgroup$
      – panic attack
      13 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
      $endgroup$
      – Elliot Alderson
      12 hours ago



















    2












    $begingroup$

    If you are talking about strain gauges, then the problem has to be expanded also to the application. Strain gauges are used in weighing scales, pressure transducers,...they are glued on piece of metal.



    Things may differ if you use some alloy vs other alloy due to different temperature coeficients, moreover the metal body doesn't always return to it's initial position when unloaded, it has some hysteresis.



    Many constraints putted together makes a weighing scale to have a finite number of counts/resolution. It's not just a property of strain gauge.



    Most legal to trade scales are C3000 standard, meaning 3000 count over full scale.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
      $endgroup$
      – panic attack
      12 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
      $endgroup$
      – Marko Buršič
      12 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    Here is a system-analysis for 100 microvolt sensor, into 90dB gain low-noise (3-stage) amplifier, into 10 Hertz RC low pass filter, into 32-bit Analog Digital Converter. The amplifier produces 3 volts PP into the 5vPP ADC.



    The right-hand numbers tell the resolution story:



    ---- total noise 4.94 milliVolts RMS (all uncalibratable errors)



    ---- thermal noise 140 microVolts RMS (dominated by first opamp), with lower left plot showing how that opamp and the Rg (resistor to ground) dominate



    ---- ADC quantization noise 336 picoVolts RMS



    ---- Power Supply noise: 4.94 millivolt RMS (60 and 120 Hz; rable in lower-right corner)



    What is the limit to resolution? The power-supply-rejection of the first operational-amplifier (which the tool set to 80dB at low frequencies).



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("schematics", function () {
      StackExchange.schematics.init();
      });
      }, "cicuitlab");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "135"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f424655%2fwhat-sets-the-resolution-of-an-analog-resistive-sensor%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      9












      $begingroup$

      If we define resolution of an analog measurement as the smallest change which can be detected, there are some limiting factors. In this case, we're talking about change in strain, not the resulting change in resistance, though obviously they are related.



      For the sensor itself, there are factors such as temperature coefficent, hysteresis, 1/f noise (drift) and Johnson-Nyquist (white) noise. The white noise effect can be mitigated by reducing the bandwidth, but then 1/f noise becomes more important, so even if you have no constraint on the time to take a measurement you can't reduce the noise effect without limit.



      To the extent you can know the temperature (and to the extent that it's consistent over the element) and you know the strain history you may be able to compensate partially for some of those factors.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        9












        $begingroup$

        If we define resolution of an analog measurement as the smallest change which can be detected, there are some limiting factors. In this case, we're talking about change in strain, not the resulting change in resistance, though obviously they are related.



        For the sensor itself, there are factors such as temperature coefficent, hysteresis, 1/f noise (drift) and Johnson-Nyquist (white) noise. The white noise effect can be mitigated by reducing the bandwidth, but then 1/f noise becomes more important, so even if you have no constraint on the time to take a measurement you can't reduce the noise effect without limit.



        To the extent you can know the temperature (and to the extent that it's consistent over the element) and you know the strain history you may be able to compensate partially for some of those factors.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          9












          9








          9





          $begingroup$

          If we define resolution of an analog measurement as the smallest change which can be detected, there are some limiting factors. In this case, we're talking about change in strain, not the resulting change in resistance, though obviously they are related.



          For the sensor itself, there are factors such as temperature coefficent, hysteresis, 1/f noise (drift) and Johnson-Nyquist (white) noise. The white noise effect can be mitigated by reducing the bandwidth, but then 1/f noise becomes more important, so even if you have no constraint on the time to take a measurement you can't reduce the noise effect without limit.



          To the extent you can know the temperature (and to the extent that it's consistent over the element) and you know the strain history you may be able to compensate partially for some of those factors.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          If we define resolution of an analog measurement as the smallest change which can be detected, there are some limiting factors. In this case, we're talking about change in strain, not the resulting change in resistance, though obviously they are related.



          For the sensor itself, there are factors such as temperature coefficent, hysteresis, 1/f noise (drift) and Johnson-Nyquist (white) noise. The white noise effect can be mitigated by reducing the bandwidth, but then 1/f noise becomes more important, so even if you have no constraint on the time to take a measurement you can't reduce the noise effect without limit.



          To the extent you can know the temperature (and to the extent that it's consistent over the element) and you know the strain history you may be able to compensate partially for some of those factors.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 10 hours ago









          Spehro PefhanySpehro Pefhany

          209k5159421




          209k5159421

























              2












              $begingroup$

              The resolution is determined by the instrument used to measure the effective resistance.



              A given resistive sensor would be characterized by its precision (the repeatibility of measurements under identical conditions) and its accuracy (how well the change in resistance truly reflects the change in strain). Over the range of measurements you could also talk about the linearity of the sensor.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                13 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Elliot Alderson
                12 hours ago
















              2












              $begingroup$

              The resolution is determined by the instrument used to measure the effective resistance.



              A given resistive sensor would be characterized by its precision (the repeatibility of measurements under identical conditions) and its accuracy (how well the change in resistance truly reflects the change in strain). Over the range of measurements you could also talk about the linearity of the sensor.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                13 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Elliot Alderson
                12 hours ago














              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              The resolution is determined by the instrument used to measure the effective resistance.



              A given resistive sensor would be characterized by its precision (the repeatibility of measurements under identical conditions) and its accuracy (how well the change in resistance truly reflects the change in strain). Over the range of measurements you could also talk about the linearity of the sensor.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              The resolution is determined by the instrument used to measure the effective resistance.



              A given resistive sensor would be characterized by its precision (the repeatibility of measurements under identical conditions) and its accuracy (how well the change in resistance truly reflects the change in strain). Over the range of measurements you could also talk about the linearity of the sensor.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 13 hours ago









              Elliot AldersonElliot Alderson

              7,22011022




              7,22011022












              • $begingroup$
                Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                13 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Elliot Alderson
                12 hours ago


















              • $begingroup$
                Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                13 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Elliot Alderson
                12 hours ago
















              $begingroup$
              Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
              $endgroup$
              – panic attack
              13 hours ago






              $begingroup$
              Yes but there is a point that the change in resistance stops reflecting the change in strain. What is the cause of it? Is it the noise or?
              $endgroup$
              – panic attack
              13 hours ago














              $begingroup$
              It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Elliot Alderson
              12 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              It depends on the exact nature of the sensor. For your potentiometer example it happens when you near the end of the travel of the wiper. This effect would cause a severe loss of linearity and accuracy. You have not told us enough about your particular sensor to give you a better answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Elliot Alderson
              12 hours ago











              2












              $begingroup$

              If you are talking about strain gauges, then the problem has to be expanded also to the application. Strain gauges are used in weighing scales, pressure transducers,...they are glued on piece of metal.



              Things may differ if you use some alloy vs other alloy due to different temperature coeficients, moreover the metal body doesn't always return to it's initial position when unloaded, it has some hysteresis.



              Many constraints putted together makes a weighing scale to have a finite number of counts/resolution. It's not just a property of strain gauge.



              Most legal to trade scales are C3000 standard, meaning 3000 count over full scale.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                12 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
                $endgroup$
                – Marko Buršič
                12 hours ago
















              2












              $begingroup$

              If you are talking about strain gauges, then the problem has to be expanded also to the application. Strain gauges are used in weighing scales, pressure transducers,...they are glued on piece of metal.



              Things may differ if you use some alloy vs other alloy due to different temperature coeficients, moreover the metal body doesn't always return to it's initial position when unloaded, it has some hysteresis.



              Many constraints putted together makes a weighing scale to have a finite number of counts/resolution. It's not just a property of strain gauge.



              Most legal to trade scales are C3000 standard, meaning 3000 count over full scale.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                12 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
                $endgroup$
                – Marko Buršič
                12 hours ago














              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              If you are talking about strain gauges, then the problem has to be expanded also to the application. Strain gauges are used in weighing scales, pressure transducers,...they are glued on piece of metal.



              Things may differ if you use some alloy vs other alloy due to different temperature coeficients, moreover the metal body doesn't always return to it's initial position when unloaded, it has some hysteresis.



              Many constraints putted together makes a weighing scale to have a finite number of counts/resolution. It's not just a property of strain gauge.



              Most legal to trade scales are C3000 standard, meaning 3000 count over full scale.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              If you are talking about strain gauges, then the problem has to be expanded also to the application. Strain gauges are used in weighing scales, pressure transducers,...they are glued on piece of metal.



              Things may differ if you use some alloy vs other alloy due to different temperature coeficients, moreover the metal body doesn't always return to it's initial position when unloaded, it has some hysteresis.



              Many constraints putted together makes a weighing scale to have a finite number of counts/resolution. It's not just a property of strain gauge.



              Most legal to trade scales are C3000 standard, meaning 3000 count over full scale.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 12 hours ago

























              answered 12 hours ago









              Marko BuršičMarko Buršič

              10.1k2812




              10.1k2812












              • $begingroup$
                What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                12 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
                $endgroup$
                – Marko Buršič
                12 hours ago


















              • $begingroup$
                What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
                $endgroup$
                – panic attack
                12 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
                $endgroup$
                – Marko Buršič
                12 hours ago
















              $begingroup$
              What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
              $endgroup$
              – panic attack
              12 hours ago






              $begingroup$
              What is meant by "count" in this context? Is it like a count of a counter or a weigh unit?
              $endgroup$
              – panic attack
              12 hours ago














              $begingroup$
              Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
              $endgroup$
              – Marko Buršič
              12 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              Measuring intervals, like quants. Or similar with ADC counts - 12 bit = 4096 counts.
              $endgroup$
              – Marko Buršič
              12 hours ago











              0












              $begingroup$

              Here is a system-analysis for 100 microvolt sensor, into 90dB gain low-noise (3-stage) amplifier, into 10 Hertz RC low pass filter, into 32-bit Analog Digital Converter. The amplifier produces 3 volts PP into the 5vPP ADC.



              The right-hand numbers tell the resolution story:



              ---- total noise 4.94 milliVolts RMS (all uncalibratable errors)



              ---- thermal noise 140 microVolts RMS (dominated by first opamp), with lower left plot showing how that opamp and the Rg (resistor to ground) dominate



              ---- ADC quantization noise 336 picoVolts RMS



              ---- Power Supply noise: 4.94 millivolt RMS (60 and 120 Hz; rable in lower-right corner)



              What is the limit to resolution? The power-supply-rejection of the first operational-amplifier (which the tool set to 80dB at low frequencies).



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                Here is a system-analysis for 100 microvolt sensor, into 90dB gain low-noise (3-stage) amplifier, into 10 Hertz RC low pass filter, into 32-bit Analog Digital Converter. The amplifier produces 3 volts PP into the 5vPP ADC.



                The right-hand numbers tell the resolution story:



                ---- total noise 4.94 milliVolts RMS (all uncalibratable errors)



                ---- thermal noise 140 microVolts RMS (dominated by first opamp), with lower left plot showing how that opamp and the Rg (resistor to ground) dominate



                ---- ADC quantization noise 336 picoVolts RMS



                ---- Power Supply noise: 4.94 millivolt RMS (60 and 120 Hz; rable in lower-right corner)



                What is the limit to resolution? The power-supply-rejection of the first operational-amplifier (which the tool set to 80dB at low frequencies).



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Here is a system-analysis for 100 microvolt sensor, into 90dB gain low-noise (3-stage) amplifier, into 10 Hertz RC low pass filter, into 32-bit Analog Digital Converter. The amplifier produces 3 volts PP into the 5vPP ADC.



                  The right-hand numbers tell the resolution story:



                  ---- total noise 4.94 milliVolts RMS (all uncalibratable errors)



                  ---- thermal noise 140 microVolts RMS (dominated by first opamp), with lower left plot showing how that opamp and the Rg (resistor to ground) dominate



                  ---- ADC quantization noise 336 picoVolts RMS



                  ---- Power Supply noise: 4.94 millivolt RMS (60 and 120 Hz; rable in lower-right corner)



                  What is the limit to resolution? The power-supply-rejection of the first operational-amplifier (which the tool set to 80dB at low frequencies).



                  enter image description here






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Here is a system-analysis for 100 microvolt sensor, into 90dB gain low-noise (3-stage) amplifier, into 10 Hertz RC low pass filter, into 32-bit Analog Digital Converter. The amplifier produces 3 volts PP into the 5vPP ADC.



                  The right-hand numbers tell the resolution story:



                  ---- total noise 4.94 milliVolts RMS (all uncalibratable errors)



                  ---- thermal noise 140 microVolts RMS (dominated by first opamp), with lower left plot showing how that opamp and the Rg (resistor to ground) dominate



                  ---- ADC quantization noise 336 picoVolts RMS



                  ---- Power Supply noise: 4.94 millivolt RMS (60 and 120 Hz; rable in lower-right corner)



                  What is the limit to resolution? The power-supply-rejection of the first operational-amplifier (which the tool set to 80dB at low frequencies).



                  enter image description here







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 11 hours ago

























                  answered 11 hours ago









                  analogsystemsrfanalogsystemsrf

                  14.9k2718




                  14.9k2718






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f424655%2fwhat-sets-the-resolution-of-an-analog-resistive-sensor%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      If I really need a card on my start hand, how many mulligans make sense? [duplicate]

                      Alcedinidae

                      Can an atomic nucleus contain both particles and antiparticles? [duplicate]