Specific Chinese carabiner QA?












10















Several offshore sailors are considering the use of specific Chinese locking carabiners with personal tethers, to keep us attached in violent conditions. Specifically...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Rock-Climbing-Auto-Locking-Carabiner-Clip-25KN-Safe-Buckle-Hook-Clip-/253765494839



Is anything known about the QA of these items and the reliability of their CE/UIAA labeling?










share|improve this question









New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago
















10















Several offshore sailors are considering the use of specific Chinese locking carabiners with personal tethers, to keep us attached in violent conditions. Specifically...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Rock-Climbing-Auto-Locking-Carabiner-Clip-25KN-Safe-Buckle-Hook-Clip-/253765494839



Is anything known about the QA of these items and the reliability of their CE/UIAA labeling?










share|improve this question









New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago














10












10








10


1






Several offshore sailors are considering the use of specific Chinese locking carabiners with personal tethers, to keep us attached in violent conditions. Specifically...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Rock-Climbing-Auto-Locking-Carabiner-Clip-25KN-Safe-Buckle-Hook-Clip-/253765494839



Is anything known about the QA of these items and the reliability of their CE/UIAA labeling?










share|improve this question









New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












Several offshore sailors are considering the use of specific Chinese locking carabiners with personal tethers, to keep us attached in violent conditions. Specifically...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Rock-Climbing-Auto-Locking-Carabiner-Clip-25KN-Safe-Buckle-Hook-Clip-/253765494839



Is anything known about the QA of these items and the reliability of their CE/UIAA labeling?







safety sailing carabiners






share|improve this question









New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 13 hours ago









imsodin

18.3k263115




18.3k263115






New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 15 hours ago









wil baileywil bailey

513




513




New contributor




wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






wil bailey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago



















  • Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago

















Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

– imsodin
12 hours ago





Related: outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7344/…

– imsodin
12 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















14














This item might be identical to a certified one, but the seller is clearly not aware of certifications, so you should assume it is not certified - in short:



Do not use this carabiner for safety-relevant applications.



The description on ebay says





  • The ultimate tension: 25KN

  • CE Certification




"ultimate tension" is not a term used to describe carabiners strength by any manufacturer I know. In addition, with carabiners you usually get numbers for major axis, minor axis and open gate strength.



CE certification is not a safety norm like EN/UIAA. The image features an EN cert, the text does not mention an EN cert. Googling the seller "STRADE FAREAST LIMITED" does not bring up anything relevant either. There are way too many red flags here for safety relevant gear.



Another red flag, as identified by @Pont, is the displayed norm: EN 362:2004. That's the norm for industrial equipment, while the description on ebay is geared towards "Outdoor Rock Climbing".






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













  • Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago











  • In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

    – crasic
    7 hours ago













  • Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

    – mmcc
    3 hours ago





















7














The main issue is that fraud and misrepresentation is rife in the chinese manufacturing sector.



When I was working in outdoors retail, I saw a couple press releases where Petzl was facing counterfeiting from China. The copies were visually identical, down to the packaging and tags. Of course, when tested, they failed at significantly lower forces than what the specs said. These date back from 2011:



enter image description here



I personally wouldn't trust equipment that doesn't have a reputable manufacturer behind it, unless there was a way to verify that independent testing and/or official certification proof is available to the public. Having any certification stamp on the part means nothing if the manufacturer is shady as it's been proven that some certifications have been faked in the past.



I did do a quick google search, the alibaba listing for mass-market seems to imply that the manufacturer is somewhat certified. Now it's up to you to check if this is true or not as that particular certification isn't very helpful for consumers trying to detect frauds. Furthermore, as noted by @JonCuster, the CE certificate is for a different item, which makes this pretty much non-applicable anyway and super shady.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

    – Jon Custer
    12 hours ago











  • @JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

    – Jon Custer
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago



















-2














These look like the Carabiners frequently used on Via Ferrata climbing kits. See for example these images on google.



I am certain that you can find such carabiners from respectable brands with a known history of high quality gear that fulfils all the needed standards. They might be a little bit more expensive.



In light of this I would say:




  • If you have to even ask then it's probably safer to just avoid buying crucial and potentially life-saving equipment from unknown Chinese manufacturers.

  • Buy a similar product from a known, respectable climbing gear manufacturer.


That being said, the linked product from E-Bay quite likely is up to standards and will perfectly hold up to the claimed load limits. But personally I'd rather not bet my life on it, especially not to save a measly 10 bucks.





Edit: Found some being sold in the Salewa Shop, I'm sure there are plenty of others.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

    – imsodin
    13 hours ago











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "395"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});






wil bailey is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2foutdoors.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f21757%2fspecific-chinese-carabiner-qa%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









14














This item might be identical to a certified one, but the seller is clearly not aware of certifications, so you should assume it is not certified - in short:



Do not use this carabiner for safety-relevant applications.



The description on ebay says





  • The ultimate tension: 25KN

  • CE Certification




"ultimate tension" is not a term used to describe carabiners strength by any manufacturer I know. In addition, with carabiners you usually get numbers for major axis, minor axis and open gate strength.



CE certification is not a safety norm like EN/UIAA. The image features an EN cert, the text does not mention an EN cert. Googling the seller "STRADE FAREAST LIMITED" does not bring up anything relevant either. There are way too many red flags here for safety relevant gear.



Another red flag, as identified by @Pont, is the displayed norm: EN 362:2004. That's the norm for industrial equipment, while the description on ebay is geared towards "Outdoor Rock Climbing".






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













  • Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago











  • In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

    – crasic
    7 hours ago













  • Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

    – mmcc
    3 hours ago


















14














This item might be identical to a certified one, but the seller is clearly not aware of certifications, so you should assume it is not certified - in short:



Do not use this carabiner for safety-relevant applications.



The description on ebay says





  • The ultimate tension: 25KN

  • CE Certification




"ultimate tension" is not a term used to describe carabiners strength by any manufacturer I know. In addition, with carabiners you usually get numbers for major axis, minor axis and open gate strength.



CE certification is not a safety norm like EN/UIAA. The image features an EN cert, the text does not mention an EN cert. Googling the seller "STRADE FAREAST LIMITED" does not bring up anything relevant either. There are way too many red flags here for safety relevant gear.



Another red flag, as identified by @Pont, is the displayed norm: EN 362:2004. That's the norm for industrial equipment, while the description on ebay is geared towards "Outdoor Rock Climbing".






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













  • Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago











  • In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

    – crasic
    7 hours ago













  • Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

    – mmcc
    3 hours ago
















14












14








14







This item might be identical to a certified one, but the seller is clearly not aware of certifications, so you should assume it is not certified - in short:



Do not use this carabiner for safety-relevant applications.



The description on ebay says





  • The ultimate tension: 25KN

  • CE Certification




"ultimate tension" is not a term used to describe carabiners strength by any manufacturer I know. In addition, with carabiners you usually get numbers for major axis, minor axis and open gate strength.



CE certification is not a safety norm like EN/UIAA. The image features an EN cert, the text does not mention an EN cert. Googling the seller "STRADE FAREAST LIMITED" does not bring up anything relevant either. There are way too many red flags here for safety relevant gear.



Another red flag, as identified by @Pont, is the displayed norm: EN 362:2004. That's the norm for industrial equipment, while the description on ebay is geared towards "Outdoor Rock Climbing".






share|improve this answer















This item might be identical to a certified one, but the seller is clearly not aware of certifications, so you should assume it is not certified - in short:



Do not use this carabiner for safety-relevant applications.



The description on ebay says





  • The ultimate tension: 25KN

  • CE Certification




"ultimate tension" is not a term used to describe carabiners strength by any manufacturer I know. In addition, with carabiners you usually get numbers for major axis, minor axis and open gate strength.



CE certification is not a safety norm like EN/UIAA. The image features an EN cert, the text does not mention an EN cert. Googling the seller "STRADE FAREAST LIMITED" does not bring up anything relevant either. There are way too many red flags here for safety relevant gear.



Another red flag, as identified by @Pont, is the displayed norm: EN 362:2004. That's the norm for industrial equipment, while the description on ebay is geared towards "Outdoor Rock Climbing".







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 9 hours ago









CGCampbell

1052




1052










answered 13 hours ago









imsodinimsodin

18.3k263115




18.3k263115








  • 1





    Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













  • Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago











  • In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

    – crasic
    7 hours ago













  • Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

    – mmcc
    3 hours ago
















  • 1





    Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













  • Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

    – imsodin
    12 hours ago











  • In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

    – crasic
    7 hours ago













  • Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

    – mmcc
    3 hours ago










1




1





Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

– Pont
12 hours ago







Another red flag: the description says "Outdoor Rock Climbing Auto Locking Carabiner Clip", but the only EN marking I see in the photos is EN 362:2004, which is the standard for industrial carabiners. For a climbing carabiner I'd expect EN 12275:2013.

– Pont
12 hours ago















Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

– imsodin
12 hours ago





Nice spot. I do not know those numbers by hart and the other red flags were enough for me to not do the googling - thanks for that.

– imsodin
12 hours ago













In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

– crasic
7 hours ago







In the absolute best case this is a mis-advertised industrial carabiner, which is nominally OK to use as a utility crab but should not be used in climbing safety applications. Note that one uses generic hardware all the time, chains, mussey hooks, cold shuts, and rings hanging off the shiny petzl bolt anchors at your favorite crag and are largely hardware store specials and towing hardware

– crasic
7 hours ago















Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

– mmcc
3 hours ago







Grade 8.8 hex head bolts from China (head stamped with 8.8 and everything) are so frequently not actually heat treated to that standard that we would bend-test( to yield) one from each box. In our experience if one was good they all were good. But, that was a simple test of a single property (yield strength) and our application was not life or death. Traceability to a credible manufacturer is a necessary counterpart to whatever labeling is there. There’s not really a label police.

– mmcc
3 hours ago













7














The main issue is that fraud and misrepresentation is rife in the chinese manufacturing sector.



When I was working in outdoors retail, I saw a couple press releases where Petzl was facing counterfeiting from China. The copies were visually identical, down to the packaging and tags. Of course, when tested, they failed at significantly lower forces than what the specs said. These date back from 2011:



enter image description here



I personally wouldn't trust equipment that doesn't have a reputable manufacturer behind it, unless there was a way to verify that independent testing and/or official certification proof is available to the public. Having any certification stamp on the part means nothing if the manufacturer is shady as it's been proven that some certifications have been faked in the past.



I did do a quick google search, the alibaba listing for mass-market seems to imply that the manufacturer is somewhat certified. Now it's up to you to check if this is true or not as that particular certification isn't very helpful for consumers trying to detect frauds. Furthermore, as noted by @JonCuster, the CE certificate is for a different item, which makes this pretty much non-applicable anyway and super shady.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

    – Jon Custer
    12 hours ago











  • @JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

    – Jon Custer
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago
















7














The main issue is that fraud and misrepresentation is rife in the chinese manufacturing sector.



When I was working in outdoors retail, I saw a couple press releases where Petzl was facing counterfeiting from China. The copies were visually identical, down to the packaging and tags. Of course, when tested, they failed at significantly lower forces than what the specs said. These date back from 2011:



enter image description here



I personally wouldn't trust equipment that doesn't have a reputable manufacturer behind it, unless there was a way to verify that independent testing and/or official certification proof is available to the public. Having any certification stamp on the part means nothing if the manufacturer is shady as it's been proven that some certifications have been faked in the past.



I did do a quick google search, the alibaba listing for mass-market seems to imply that the manufacturer is somewhat certified. Now it's up to you to check if this is true or not as that particular certification isn't very helpful for consumers trying to detect frauds. Furthermore, as noted by @JonCuster, the CE certificate is for a different item, which makes this pretty much non-applicable anyway and super shady.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

    – Jon Custer
    12 hours ago











  • @JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

    – Jon Custer
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago














7












7








7







The main issue is that fraud and misrepresentation is rife in the chinese manufacturing sector.



When I was working in outdoors retail, I saw a couple press releases where Petzl was facing counterfeiting from China. The copies were visually identical, down to the packaging and tags. Of course, when tested, they failed at significantly lower forces than what the specs said. These date back from 2011:



enter image description here



I personally wouldn't trust equipment that doesn't have a reputable manufacturer behind it, unless there was a way to verify that independent testing and/or official certification proof is available to the public. Having any certification stamp on the part means nothing if the manufacturer is shady as it's been proven that some certifications have been faked in the past.



I did do a quick google search, the alibaba listing for mass-market seems to imply that the manufacturer is somewhat certified. Now it's up to you to check if this is true or not as that particular certification isn't very helpful for consumers trying to detect frauds. Furthermore, as noted by @JonCuster, the CE certificate is for a different item, which makes this pretty much non-applicable anyway and super shady.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer















The main issue is that fraud and misrepresentation is rife in the chinese manufacturing sector.



When I was working in outdoors retail, I saw a couple press releases where Petzl was facing counterfeiting from China. The copies were visually identical, down to the packaging and tags. Of course, when tested, they failed at significantly lower forces than what the specs said. These date back from 2011:



enter image description here



I personally wouldn't trust equipment that doesn't have a reputable manufacturer behind it, unless there was a way to verify that independent testing and/or official certification proof is available to the public. Having any certification stamp on the part means nothing if the manufacturer is shady as it's been proven that some certifications have been faked in the past.



I did do a quick google search, the alibaba listing for mass-market seems to imply that the manufacturer is somewhat certified. Now it's up to you to check if this is true or not as that particular certification isn't very helpful for consumers trying to detect frauds. Furthermore, as noted by @JonCuster, the CE certificate is for a different item, which makes this pretty much non-applicable anyway and super shady.



enter image description here







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 10 hours ago

























answered 13 hours ago









Gabriel C.Gabriel C.

2,0391123




2,0391123








  • 1





    None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

    – Jon Custer
    12 hours ago











  • @JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

    – Jon Custer
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago














  • 1





    None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

    – Jon Custer
    12 hours ago











  • @JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

    – Jon Custer
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    @JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

    – Gabriel C.
    10 hours ago








1




1





None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

– Jon Custer
12 hours ago





None of those certifications mean anything with respect to conformance with UIAA standards.

– Jon Custer
12 hours ago













@JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago





@JonCuster Oh, I'm aware of that. I was building from the pretensions of that ebay seller. Even if they had claimed to meet UIAA standards, that would be doubtful, I might not have made my point clear enough.

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago




2




2





I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

– Jon Custer
10 hours ago





I guess I'd make the a point quite specific - none of those certifications, even if true, have any bearing on the actual performance of the carabiner in question. The seller using non-relevant certificates as evidence of meeting standards is equally worrying. In total, I would have no faith they are safe. (Note the CE certificate is for "Ninjo Line Kit (Children Outdoor Games" - egad!)

– Jon Custer
10 hours ago




1




1





@JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago





@JonCuster I think it's more of a commerce certification, from my basic understanding of it.

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago




1




1





To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago





To be fair, a CE cert would mean a heck of a lot for a potential importer that would want to flood the european market with the 500k units/month that the manufacturer is claiming it can supply... not that I think there's a market for that many though. this is so weird

– Gabriel C.
10 hours ago











-2














These look like the Carabiners frequently used on Via Ferrata climbing kits. See for example these images on google.



I am certain that you can find such carabiners from respectable brands with a known history of high quality gear that fulfils all the needed standards. They might be a little bit more expensive.



In light of this I would say:




  • If you have to even ask then it's probably safer to just avoid buying crucial and potentially life-saving equipment from unknown Chinese manufacturers.

  • Buy a similar product from a known, respectable climbing gear manufacturer.


That being said, the linked product from E-Bay quite likely is up to standards and will perfectly hold up to the claimed load limits. But personally I'd rather not bet my life on it, especially not to save a measly 10 bucks.





Edit: Found some being sold in the Salewa Shop, I'm sure there are plenty of others.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

    – imsodin
    13 hours ago
















-2














These look like the Carabiners frequently used on Via Ferrata climbing kits. See for example these images on google.



I am certain that you can find such carabiners from respectable brands with a known history of high quality gear that fulfils all the needed standards. They might be a little bit more expensive.



In light of this I would say:




  • If you have to even ask then it's probably safer to just avoid buying crucial and potentially life-saving equipment from unknown Chinese manufacturers.

  • Buy a similar product from a known, respectable climbing gear manufacturer.


That being said, the linked product from E-Bay quite likely is up to standards and will perfectly hold up to the claimed load limits. But personally I'd rather not bet my life on it, especially not to save a measly 10 bucks.





Edit: Found some being sold in the Salewa Shop, I'm sure there are plenty of others.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

    – imsodin
    13 hours ago














-2












-2








-2







These look like the Carabiners frequently used on Via Ferrata climbing kits. See for example these images on google.



I am certain that you can find such carabiners from respectable brands with a known history of high quality gear that fulfils all the needed standards. They might be a little bit more expensive.



In light of this I would say:




  • If you have to even ask then it's probably safer to just avoid buying crucial and potentially life-saving equipment from unknown Chinese manufacturers.

  • Buy a similar product from a known, respectable climbing gear manufacturer.


That being said, the linked product from E-Bay quite likely is up to standards and will perfectly hold up to the claimed load limits. But personally I'd rather not bet my life on it, especially not to save a measly 10 bucks.





Edit: Found some being sold in the Salewa Shop, I'm sure there are plenty of others.






share|improve this answer















These look like the Carabiners frequently used on Via Ferrata climbing kits. See for example these images on google.



I am certain that you can find such carabiners from respectable brands with a known history of high quality gear that fulfils all the needed standards. They might be a little bit more expensive.



In light of this I would say:




  • If you have to even ask then it's probably safer to just avoid buying crucial and potentially life-saving equipment from unknown Chinese manufacturers.

  • Buy a similar product from a known, respectable climbing gear manufacturer.


That being said, the linked product from E-Bay quite likely is up to standards and will perfectly hold up to the claimed load limits. But personally I'd rather not bet my life on it, especially not to save a measly 10 bucks.





Edit: Found some being sold in the Salewa Shop, I'm sure there are plenty of others.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 14 hours ago

























answered 14 hours ago









fgysinfgysin

8,25812449




8,25812449








  • 2





    My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

    – imsodin
    13 hours ago














  • 2





    My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

    – imsodin
    13 hours ago








2




2





My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

– imsodin
13 hours ago





My -1 is for your last (non-edit) paragraph.

– imsodin
13 hours ago










wil bailey is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










draft saved

draft discarded


















wil bailey is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













wil bailey is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












wil bailey is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















Thanks for contributing an answer to The Great Outdoors Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2foutdoors.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f21757%2fspecific-chinese-carabiner-qa%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

If I really need a card on my start hand, how many mulligans make sense? [duplicate]

Alcedinidae

Can an atomic nucleus contain both particles and antiparticles? [duplicate]