Can a Ranger bond with a beast that’s secretly an Angel in disguise?












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In my game there’s a Ranger who is a demigod and doesn’t know it (my homebrew, but shouldn’t affect the question I have). He has a pet “lizard” who is actually a polymorphed Deva in disguise that his father sent to keep tabs on him. The Deva is using his innate polymorphing ability.



The player is planning on taking the Beast Master Archetype and wants to choose his pet “Gecky” the “lizard” as his ranger companion. Would “Gecky” count as a Beast for the purpose of bonding if he’s already spent years in polymorphed form watching over him, or would bonding fail due to his being of the Celestial type?










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    8














    In my game there’s a Ranger who is a demigod and doesn’t know it (my homebrew, but shouldn’t affect the question I have). He has a pet “lizard” who is actually a polymorphed Deva in disguise that his father sent to keep tabs on him. The Deva is using his innate polymorphing ability.



    The player is planning on taking the Beast Master Archetype and wants to choose his pet “Gecky” the “lizard” as his ranger companion. Would “Gecky” count as a Beast for the purpose of bonding if he’s already spent years in polymorphed form watching over him, or would bonding fail due to his being of the Celestial type?










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      In my game there’s a Ranger who is a demigod and doesn’t know it (my homebrew, but shouldn’t affect the question I have). He has a pet “lizard” who is actually a polymorphed Deva in disguise that his father sent to keep tabs on him. The Deva is using his innate polymorphing ability.



      The player is planning on taking the Beast Master Archetype and wants to choose his pet “Gecky” the “lizard” as his ranger companion. Would “Gecky” count as a Beast for the purpose of bonding if he’s already spent years in polymorphed form watching over him, or would bonding fail due to his being of the Celestial type?










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      In my game there’s a Ranger who is a demigod and doesn’t know it (my homebrew, but shouldn’t affect the question I have). He has a pet “lizard” who is actually a polymorphed Deva in disguise that his father sent to keep tabs on him. The Deva is using his innate polymorphing ability.



      The player is planning on taking the Beast Master Archetype and wants to choose his pet “Gecky” the “lizard” as his ranger companion. Would “Gecky” count as a Beast for the purpose of bonding if he’s already spent years in polymorphed form watching over him, or would bonding fail due to his being of the Celestial type?







      dnd-5e ranger polymorph animal-companions






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      edited Dec 22 at 17:48









      SevenSidedDie

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      asked Dec 22 at 17:33









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          5 Answers
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          30














          What's important to you here, the fluff or the crunch?



          "Fluff" is the game world that the DM describes and the players interacts with. "Crunch" is the actual game rules mechanics. For example, if you had a player who described their character as a lightly armored duelist fighter who specialized in the rapier, that's their fluff, while the crunch might be that they're actually using the rogue class rather than the fighter class.



          If the fluff of this pet being a deva watching over the ranger is what's important to you, then sure, it works fine. Use the lizard crunch at all times for the pet, so the ranger doesn't gain non-standard mechanical benefits. Treat it mechanically as if the ranger had chosen some other perfectly normal lizard, and just focus on the story implications.



          If the crunch of this lizard being a deva is what's important, i.e. that if push comes to shove it can actually bust out some Angel Awesomeness™, then no, it cannot be chosen as the ranger's beast companion. As mentioned in other answers, the deva's polymorph explicitly says it keeps its regular stats, as compared to the druid's wildshape which explicitly gives beast stats. You'll need to think about how the player might react to their attempt to make this lizard their beast companion, and how the deva might respond to those reactions.



          To clarify, you should be OK as long as you keep the crunch consistent. It doesn't really matter whether you use the game rules for a lizard or for a deva, as long as you don't try to mix and match the two sets of rules.






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          • 6




            "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:24








          • 5




            @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 19:29






          • 2




            What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:32






          • 5




            ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:35








          • 6




            @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 21:17



















          12














          No, it can't bond with a shapechanged deva



          The deva's Change Shape action says:




          In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks.




          Nowhere here does it say it changes the creature type of the Deva, so it is still a Celestial; i.e. not applicable for Beast Companion. For example, the Druid's Wild Shape says:




          Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast




          ...which expressly states that the Druid becomes a beast. In addition, as @fabian mentioned, a Deva is not CR $frac14$ or lower.






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          • 1




            So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday










          • @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday










          • ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday










          • @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday



















          10














          Purely rules-as-written, no, you can't do this; a Deva's polymorph doesn't give them the ability to change their type. A ranger gets a beast companion, not a celestial.



          But assuming you want to hand-wave that and just say "a god did it, it's fine", then you're off in the weeds, and the answer to this is going to ultimately be that it's up to the DM. (I'm uncertain whether that's you or not.) For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates, and as much as I hate to give this kind of answer, it doesn't matter unless it matters.



          For example, I'm not sure why you chose a Deva in specific. Just because they have a polymorph power? It could just as easily be a "celestial spirit" in lizard form, which isn't explicitly an angel of any type -- the same kind of thing you could get from a Find Familiar spell could be in play here.



          If the being is constrained to stay in beast-form at all times, and has the stats of a beast, then there's no real problem; it's just a companion animal like any other with a small twist. Having a different type than usual isn't a huge deal.



          But is the expectation for the companion to have the stats of a Deva, with resistance to weapon damage and a three-digit HP total? Having a virtually invincible animal companion is obviously not balanced, so there's an issue there.



          Is the player expecting that if the Ranger goes down and is about to die, his secret angel buddy is gonna suddenly pop their wings so they can save the Ranger with a healing touch, and maybe strike down upon the enemy with great vengeance and furious anger?



          Because, I mean, the DM can do that if they want -- honestly that would probably make a pretty awesome pre-planned story beat when everything gets revealed, and then the angel buddy has to go back to the planes, because they broke the rules. But a cool story moment shouldn't have to be prefaced with months of gaming with a mechanically broken party member.



          My recommendation is to forget the word 'deva' entirely for now, and have it just have the usual lizard stats in every way (except, possibly, the type). You'll need to have a plan for what's going to happen if the lizard drops to zero hit points or if it dies, and what it's going to do if the Ranger is in serious danger of death. If one of those plans says something like "the lizard turns into an angel", that's totally fine; don't feel like you need to mechanically justify how it was able to do that.






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          • "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:43








          • 1




            I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:59










          • @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:22










          • I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:31










          • OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 1:44





















          3














          Ditch the rules saying "can do" or "can not" and go for it.



          Reasoning: There are no demigod rules and your homebrew do affect the answer. If you go straight RAW, the premise of having a demigod as a PC is violated because of that. Therefore, you should do for the deva-disguised-as-lizard the same as your demigod-disguised-as-ranger:



          Just use the normal rules for {Ranger} and {Lizard companion} until the big reveal. Revert to (extra-) ordinary game statistics for the real deal afterwards.



          RPG is about telling a story. The game rules exist for gamifying that. The informal rules called Golden Rule and the Rule of Awesome are your friends here.



          One caveat: After the big reveal, control of the lizard-that-was-a-deva-all-this-time should not remain with the player. Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel.






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          • "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
            – V2Blast
            yesterday



















          1














          You’re the DM. It’s ultimately up to you. The DMG, Monster Manual, all the rule books are just a guide. You get to choose how to use them. Try your angel in disguise thing and see how it all turns out. Get creative with making your own rules. Etc. Just make sure your party knows everything they need to know without ruining the story.






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            5 Answers
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            5 Answers
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            What's important to you here, the fluff or the crunch?



            "Fluff" is the game world that the DM describes and the players interacts with. "Crunch" is the actual game rules mechanics. For example, if you had a player who described their character as a lightly armored duelist fighter who specialized in the rapier, that's their fluff, while the crunch might be that they're actually using the rogue class rather than the fighter class.



            If the fluff of this pet being a deva watching over the ranger is what's important to you, then sure, it works fine. Use the lizard crunch at all times for the pet, so the ranger doesn't gain non-standard mechanical benefits. Treat it mechanically as if the ranger had chosen some other perfectly normal lizard, and just focus on the story implications.



            If the crunch of this lizard being a deva is what's important, i.e. that if push comes to shove it can actually bust out some Angel Awesomeness™, then no, it cannot be chosen as the ranger's beast companion. As mentioned in other answers, the deva's polymorph explicitly says it keeps its regular stats, as compared to the druid's wildshape which explicitly gives beast stats. You'll need to think about how the player might react to their attempt to make this lizard their beast companion, and how the deva might respond to those reactions.



            To clarify, you should be OK as long as you keep the crunch consistent. It doesn't really matter whether you use the game rules for a lizard or for a deva, as long as you don't try to mix and match the two sets of rules.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 6




              "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:24








            • 5




              @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 19:29






            • 2




              What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:32






            • 5




              ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:35








            • 6




              @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 21:17
















            30














            What's important to you here, the fluff or the crunch?



            "Fluff" is the game world that the DM describes and the players interacts with. "Crunch" is the actual game rules mechanics. For example, if you had a player who described their character as a lightly armored duelist fighter who specialized in the rapier, that's their fluff, while the crunch might be that they're actually using the rogue class rather than the fighter class.



            If the fluff of this pet being a deva watching over the ranger is what's important to you, then sure, it works fine. Use the lizard crunch at all times for the pet, so the ranger doesn't gain non-standard mechanical benefits. Treat it mechanically as if the ranger had chosen some other perfectly normal lizard, and just focus on the story implications.



            If the crunch of this lizard being a deva is what's important, i.e. that if push comes to shove it can actually bust out some Angel Awesomeness™, then no, it cannot be chosen as the ranger's beast companion. As mentioned in other answers, the deva's polymorph explicitly says it keeps its regular stats, as compared to the druid's wildshape which explicitly gives beast stats. You'll need to think about how the player might react to their attempt to make this lizard their beast companion, and how the deva might respond to those reactions.



            To clarify, you should be OK as long as you keep the crunch consistent. It doesn't really matter whether you use the game rules for a lizard or for a deva, as long as you don't try to mix and match the two sets of rules.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 6




              "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:24








            • 5




              @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 19:29






            • 2




              What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:32






            • 5




              ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:35








            • 6




              @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 21:17














            30












            30








            30






            What's important to you here, the fluff or the crunch?



            "Fluff" is the game world that the DM describes and the players interacts with. "Crunch" is the actual game rules mechanics. For example, if you had a player who described their character as a lightly armored duelist fighter who specialized in the rapier, that's their fluff, while the crunch might be that they're actually using the rogue class rather than the fighter class.



            If the fluff of this pet being a deva watching over the ranger is what's important to you, then sure, it works fine. Use the lizard crunch at all times for the pet, so the ranger doesn't gain non-standard mechanical benefits. Treat it mechanically as if the ranger had chosen some other perfectly normal lizard, and just focus on the story implications.



            If the crunch of this lizard being a deva is what's important, i.e. that if push comes to shove it can actually bust out some Angel Awesomeness™, then no, it cannot be chosen as the ranger's beast companion. As mentioned in other answers, the deva's polymorph explicitly says it keeps its regular stats, as compared to the druid's wildshape which explicitly gives beast stats. You'll need to think about how the player might react to their attempt to make this lizard their beast companion, and how the deva might respond to those reactions.



            To clarify, you should be OK as long as you keep the crunch consistent. It doesn't really matter whether you use the game rules for a lizard or for a deva, as long as you don't try to mix and match the two sets of rules.






            share|improve this answer














            What's important to you here, the fluff or the crunch?



            "Fluff" is the game world that the DM describes and the players interacts with. "Crunch" is the actual game rules mechanics. For example, if you had a player who described their character as a lightly armored duelist fighter who specialized in the rapier, that's their fluff, while the crunch might be that they're actually using the rogue class rather than the fighter class.



            If the fluff of this pet being a deva watching over the ranger is what's important to you, then sure, it works fine. Use the lizard crunch at all times for the pet, so the ranger doesn't gain non-standard mechanical benefits. Treat it mechanically as if the ranger had chosen some other perfectly normal lizard, and just focus on the story implications.



            If the crunch of this lizard being a deva is what's important, i.e. that if push comes to shove it can actually bust out some Angel Awesomeness™, then no, it cannot be chosen as the ranger's beast companion. As mentioned in other answers, the deva's polymorph explicitly says it keeps its regular stats, as compared to the druid's wildshape which explicitly gives beast stats. You'll need to think about how the player might react to their attempt to make this lizard their beast companion, and how the deva might respond to those reactions.



            To clarify, you should be OK as long as you keep the crunch consistent. It doesn't really matter whether you use the game rules for a lizard or for a deva, as long as you don't try to mix and match the two sets of rules.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago

























            answered Dec 22 at 17:59









            Oblivious Sage

            42.2k14133194




            42.2k14133194








            • 6




              "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:24








            • 5




              @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 19:29






            • 2




              What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:32






            • 5




              ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:35








            • 6




              @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 21:17














            • 6




              "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:24








            • 5




              @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 19:29






            • 2




              What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:32






            • 5




              ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
              – Pelinore
              Dec 22 at 19:35








            • 6




              @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
              – Oblivious Sage
              Dec 22 at 21:17








            6




            6




            "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:24






            "the crunch" : Chances are the Deva will want to fake it though so will our Ranger know it didn't work?
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:24






            5




            5




            @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 19:29




            @Pelinore I would have to read it a lot more closely to check that. My recollection from the last time I looked at the Beastmaster was that they formed a magical bond with their companion, and if that's the case then I would expect the ranger to know it didn't work. The deva may be able to act like a beast companion, but it can't probably can't fake how the bond feels to the ranger.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 19:29




            2




            2




            What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:32




            What are the effects of this magical bond? (last I played it was v2 so I'm not familiar with this, unless it's just the animal companion thing by a new name?), if it's just an empathic or telepathic link then the Deva's going to have no problems faking that.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:32




            5




            5




            ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:35






            ^ and any elements it can't fake with it's own powers would presumably prompt a call on the celestial cell phone to dad (it's there to keep an eye on him so presumably it has some way to report in?) "Boss, the kid wants to bond with me, I'm going to need some help here if you want me to keep my cover".
            – Pelinore
            Dec 22 at 19:35






            6




            6




            @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 21:17




            @DarthPseudonym That's not necessarily what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that as long as you keep the crunch consistent (i.e. it is mechanically a lizard, or it is mechanically a deva), you should be OK either way. It's when you start trying to mix & match crunch elements in an attempt to perfectly align with the fluff that you'll run into real gameplay problems. The crunch will never perfectly align with the fluff, because any simulation is necessarily imperfect.
            – Oblivious Sage
            Dec 22 at 21:17













            12














            No, it can't bond with a shapechanged deva



            The deva's Change Shape action says:




            In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks.




            Nowhere here does it say it changes the creature type of the Deva, so it is still a Celestial; i.e. not applicable for Beast Companion. For example, the Druid's Wild Shape says:




            Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast




            ...which expressly states that the Druid becomes a beast. In addition, as @fabian mentioned, a Deva is not CR $frac14$ or lower.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1




              So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday










            • ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday
















            12














            No, it can't bond with a shapechanged deva



            The deva's Change Shape action says:




            In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks.




            Nowhere here does it say it changes the creature type of the Deva, so it is still a Celestial; i.e. not applicable for Beast Companion. For example, the Druid's Wild Shape says:




            Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast




            ...which expressly states that the Druid becomes a beast. In addition, as @fabian mentioned, a Deva is not CR $frac14$ or lower.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1




              So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday










            • ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday














            12












            12








            12






            No, it can't bond with a shapechanged deva



            The deva's Change Shape action says:




            In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks.




            Nowhere here does it say it changes the creature type of the Deva, so it is still a Celestial; i.e. not applicable for Beast Companion. For example, the Druid's Wild Shape says:




            Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast




            ...which expressly states that the Druid becomes a beast. In addition, as @fabian mentioned, a Deva is not CR $frac14$ or lower.






            share|improve this answer














            No, it can't bond with a shapechanged deva



            The deva's Change Shape action says:




            In a new form, the deva retains its game statistics and ability to speak, but its AC, movement modes, Strength, Dexterity, and special senses are replaced by those of the new form, and it gains any statistics and capabilities (except class features, legendary actions, and lair actions) that the new form has but that it lacks.




            Nowhere here does it say it changes the creature type of the Deva, so it is still a Celestial; i.e. not applicable for Beast Companion. For example, the Druid's Wild Shape says:




            Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast




            ...which expressly states that the Druid becomes a beast. In addition, as @fabian mentioned, a Deva is not CR $frac14$ or lower.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago









            V2Blast

            19.4k354119




            19.4k354119










            answered Dec 22 at 17:46









            NoOneIsHere

            507413




            507413








            • 1




              So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday










            • ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday














            • 1




              So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday










            • ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
              – Ben Barden
              yesterday










            • @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
              – NoOneIsHere
              yesterday








            1




            1




            So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday




            So a wild shaped druid would be a valid target for the Ranger animal companion ability?
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday












            @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday




            @BenBarden nope, because it isn't CR 1/4 or lower
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday












            ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday




            ...and if the druid chose to wild shape into a CR 1/4 creature? CR looks like a game statistic to me, given that it affects what abilities can target the critter.
            – Ben Barden
            yesterday












            @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday




            @BenBarden ask a new question. I don't know
            – NoOneIsHere
            yesterday











            10














            Purely rules-as-written, no, you can't do this; a Deva's polymorph doesn't give them the ability to change their type. A ranger gets a beast companion, not a celestial.



            But assuming you want to hand-wave that and just say "a god did it, it's fine", then you're off in the weeds, and the answer to this is going to ultimately be that it's up to the DM. (I'm uncertain whether that's you or not.) For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates, and as much as I hate to give this kind of answer, it doesn't matter unless it matters.



            For example, I'm not sure why you chose a Deva in specific. Just because they have a polymorph power? It could just as easily be a "celestial spirit" in lizard form, which isn't explicitly an angel of any type -- the same kind of thing you could get from a Find Familiar spell could be in play here.



            If the being is constrained to stay in beast-form at all times, and has the stats of a beast, then there's no real problem; it's just a companion animal like any other with a small twist. Having a different type than usual isn't a huge deal.



            But is the expectation for the companion to have the stats of a Deva, with resistance to weapon damage and a three-digit HP total? Having a virtually invincible animal companion is obviously not balanced, so there's an issue there.



            Is the player expecting that if the Ranger goes down and is about to die, his secret angel buddy is gonna suddenly pop their wings so they can save the Ranger with a healing touch, and maybe strike down upon the enemy with great vengeance and furious anger?



            Because, I mean, the DM can do that if they want -- honestly that would probably make a pretty awesome pre-planned story beat when everything gets revealed, and then the angel buddy has to go back to the planes, because they broke the rules. But a cool story moment shouldn't have to be prefaced with months of gaming with a mechanically broken party member.



            My recommendation is to forget the word 'deva' entirely for now, and have it just have the usual lizard stats in every way (except, possibly, the type). You'll need to have a plan for what's going to happen if the lizard drops to zero hit points or if it dies, and what it's going to do if the Ranger is in serious danger of death. If one of those plans says something like "the lizard turns into an angel", that's totally fine; don't feel like you need to mechanically justify how it was able to do that.






            share|improve this answer























            • "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:43








            • 1




              I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:59










            • @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:22










            • I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:31










            • OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 1:44


















            10














            Purely rules-as-written, no, you can't do this; a Deva's polymorph doesn't give them the ability to change their type. A ranger gets a beast companion, not a celestial.



            But assuming you want to hand-wave that and just say "a god did it, it's fine", then you're off in the weeds, and the answer to this is going to ultimately be that it's up to the DM. (I'm uncertain whether that's you or not.) For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates, and as much as I hate to give this kind of answer, it doesn't matter unless it matters.



            For example, I'm not sure why you chose a Deva in specific. Just because they have a polymorph power? It could just as easily be a "celestial spirit" in lizard form, which isn't explicitly an angel of any type -- the same kind of thing you could get from a Find Familiar spell could be in play here.



            If the being is constrained to stay in beast-form at all times, and has the stats of a beast, then there's no real problem; it's just a companion animal like any other with a small twist. Having a different type than usual isn't a huge deal.



            But is the expectation for the companion to have the stats of a Deva, with resistance to weapon damage and a three-digit HP total? Having a virtually invincible animal companion is obviously not balanced, so there's an issue there.



            Is the player expecting that if the Ranger goes down and is about to die, his secret angel buddy is gonna suddenly pop their wings so they can save the Ranger with a healing touch, and maybe strike down upon the enemy with great vengeance and furious anger?



            Because, I mean, the DM can do that if they want -- honestly that would probably make a pretty awesome pre-planned story beat when everything gets revealed, and then the angel buddy has to go back to the planes, because they broke the rules. But a cool story moment shouldn't have to be prefaced with months of gaming with a mechanically broken party member.



            My recommendation is to forget the word 'deva' entirely for now, and have it just have the usual lizard stats in every way (except, possibly, the type). You'll need to have a plan for what's going to happen if the lizard drops to zero hit points or if it dies, and what it's going to do if the Ranger is in serious danger of death. If one of those plans says something like "the lizard turns into an angel", that's totally fine; don't feel like you need to mechanically justify how it was able to do that.






            share|improve this answer























            • "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:43








            • 1




              I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:59










            • @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:22










            • I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:31










            • OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 1:44
















            10












            10








            10






            Purely rules-as-written, no, you can't do this; a Deva's polymorph doesn't give them the ability to change their type. A ranger gets a beast companion, not a celestial.



            But assuming you want to hand-wave that and just say "a god did it, it's fine", then you're off in the weeds, and the answer to this is going to ultimately be that it's up to the DM. (I'm uncertain whether that's you or not.) For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates, and as much as I hate to give this kind of answer, it doesn't matter unless it matters.



            For example, I'm not sure why you chose a Deva in specific. Just because they have a polymorph power? It could just as easily be a "celestial spirit" in lizard form, which isn't explicitly an angel of any type -- the same kind of thing you could get from a Find Familiar spell could be in play here.



            If the being is constrained to stay in beast-form at all times, and has the stats of a beast, then there's no real problem; it's just a companion animal like any other with a small twist. Having a different type than usual isn't a huge deal.



            But is the expectation for the companion to have the stats of a Deva, with resistance to weapon damage and a three-digit HP total? Having a virtually invincible animal companion is obviously not balanced, so there's an issue there.



            Is the player expecting that if the Ranger goes down and is about to die, his secret angel buddy is gonna suddenly pop their wings so they can save the Ranger with a healing touch, and maybe strike down upon the enemy with great vengeance and furious anger?



            Because, I mean, the DM can do that if they want -- honestly that would probably make a pretty awesome pre-planned story beat when everything gets revealed, and then the angel buddy has to go back to the planes, because they broke the rules. But a cool story moment shouldn't have to be prefaced with months of gaming with a mechanically broken party member.



            My recommendation is to forget the word 'deva' entirely for now, and have it just have the usual lizard stats in every way (except, possibly, the type). You'll need to have a plan for what's going to happen if the lizard drops to zero hit points or if it dies, and what it's going to do if the Ranger is in serious danger of death. If one of those plans says something like "the lizard turns into an angel", that's totally fine; don't feel like you need to mechanically justify how it was able to do that.






            share|improve this answer














            Purely rules-as-written, no, you can't do this; a Deva's polymorph doesn't give them the ability to change their type. A ranger gets a beast companion, not a celestial.



            But assuming you want to hand-wave that and just say "a god did it, it's fine", then you're off in the weeds, and the answer to this is going to ultimately be that it's up to the DM. (I'm uncertain whether that's you or not.) For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates, and as much as I hate to give this kind of answer, it doesn't matter unless it matters.



            For example, I'm not sure why you chose a Deva in specific. Just because they have a polymorph power? It could just as easily be a "celestial spirit" in lizard form, which isn't explicitly an angel of any type -- the same kind of thing you could get from a Find Familiar spell could be in play here.



            If the being is constrained to stay in beast-form at all times, and has the stats of a beast, then there's no real problem; it's just a companion animal like any other with a small twist. Having a different type than usual isn't a huge deal.



            But is the expectation for the companion to have the stats of a Deva, with resistance to weapon damage and a three-digit HP total? Having a virtually invincible animal companion is obviously not balanced, so there's an issue there.



            Is the player expecting that if the Ranger goes down and is about to die, his secret angel buddy is gonna suddenly pop their wings so they can save the Ranger with a healing touch, and maybe strike down upon the enemy with great vengeance and furious anger?



            Because, I mean, the DM can do that if they want -- honestly that would probably make a pretty awesome pre-planned story beat when everything gets revealed, and then the angel buddy has to go back to the planes, because they broke the rules. But a cool story moment shouldn't have to be prefaced with months of gaming with a mechanically broken party member.



            My recommendation is to forget the word 'deva' entirely for now, and have it just have the usual lizard stats in every way (except, possibly, the type). You'll need to have a plan for what's going to happen if the lizard drops to zero hit points or if it dies, and what it's going to do if the Ranger is in serious danger of death. If one of those plans says something like "the lizard turns into an angel", that's totally fine; don't feel like you need to mechanically justify how it was able to do that.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago

























            answered Dec 22 at 21:41









            Darth Pseudonym

            11.5k12864




            11.5k12864












            • "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:43








            • 1




              I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:59










            • @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:22










            • I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:31










            • OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 1:44




















            • "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:43








            • 1




              I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 0:59










            • @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:22










            • I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
              – Darth Pseudonym
              Dec 23 at 1:31










            • OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
              – Pelinore
              Dec 23 at 1:44


















            "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:43






            "uncertain whether that's you or not" the OP says it's him : "For a thing like this, the player should work with the DM to figure out what's going on and how it operates" OP said the situation is his own "home brew", his player isn't aware of any of this yet & it seems the OP doesn't want to do the reveal yet, so not an option.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:43






            1




            1




            I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:59




            I think the OP is really looking for some advice on how to handle his players intention to take this ability & what the mechanics are going to dictate should happen if a ranger tries to choose (what the player thinks is) a lizard, if it should automatically reveal it's not an ordinary lizard to the player & maybe some ideas on how to continue to keep the secret from his player without too much hand-waving & rule bending.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 0:59












            @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:22




            @Pelinore The OP didn't say that they are the DM or that the player didn't know.. The character is unaware of his heritage, but that doesn't mean the player is unaware, and players often refer to the campaign as "my game" even if they aren't the DM. It's most likely the OP is DM, but since it doesn't actually say that, I didn't assume anything.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:22












            I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:31




            I'm sure it wasn't clearly stated whether "the ranger doesn't know" also means "the ranger's player doesn't know", and therefore I didn't make an assumption.
            – Darth Pseudonym
            Dec 23 at 1:31












            OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 1:44






            OP says it's his game which on it's own is ambiguous yes but then refers to the rangers player in 3rd person, add "my homebrew" to that & it clinches it, but if you still have doubts ask the OP to clarify.
            – Pelinore
            Dec 23 at 1:44













            3














            Ditch the rules saying "can do" or "can not" and go for it.



            Reasoning: There are no demigod rules and your homebrew do affect the answer. If you go straight RAW, the premise of having a demigod as a PC is violated because of that. Therefore, you should do for the deva-disguised-as-lizard the same as your demigod-disguised-as-ranger:



            Just use the normal rules for {Ranger} and {Lizard companion} until the big reveal. Revert to (extra-) ordinary game statistics for the real deal afterwards.



            RPG is about telling a story. The game rules exist for gamifying that. The informal rules called Golden Rule and the Rule of Awesome are your friends here.



            One caveat: After the big reveal, control of the lizard-that-was-a-deva-all-this-time should not remain with the player. Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel.






            share|improve this answer





















            • "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
              – V2Blast
              yesterday
















            3














            Ditch the rules saying "can do" or "can not" and go for it.



            Reasoning: There are no demigod rules and your homebrew do affect the answer. If you go straight RAW, the premise of having a demigod as a PC is violated because of that. Therefore, you should do for the deva-disguised-as-lizard the same as your demigod-disguised-as-ranger:



            Just use the normal rules for {Ranger} and {Lizard companion} until the big reveal. Revert to (extra-) ordinary game statistics for the real deal afterwards.



            RPG is about telling a story. The game rules exist for gamifying that. The informal rules called Golden Rule and the Rule of Awesome are your friends here.



            One caveat: After the big reveal, control of the lizard-that-was-a-deva-all-this-time should not remain with the player. Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel.






            share|improve this answer





















            • "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
              – V2Blast
              yesterday














            3












            3








            3






            Ditch the rules saying "can do" or "can not" and go for it.



            Reasoning: There are no demigod rules and your homebrew do affect the answer. If you go straight RAW, the premise of having a demigod as a PC is violated because of that. Therefore, you should do for the deva-disguised-as-lizard the same as your demigod-disguised-as-ranger:



            Just use the normal rules for {Ranger} and {Lizard companion} until the big reveal. Revert to (extra-) ordinary game statistics for the real deal afterwards.



            RPG is about telling a story. The game rules exist for gamifying that. The informal rules called Golden Rule and the Rule of Awesome are your friends here.



            One caveat: After the big reveal, control of the lizard-that-was-a-deva-all-this-time should not remain with the player. Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel.






            share|improve this answer












            Ditch the rules saying "can do" or "can not" and go for it.



            Reasoning: There are no demigod rules and your homebrew do affect the answer. If you go straight RAW, the premise of having a demigod as a PC is violated because of that. Therefore, you should do for the deva-disguised-as-lizard the same as your demigod-disguised-as-ranger:



            Just use the normal rules for {Ranger} and {Lizard companion} until the big reveal. Revert to (extra-) ordinary game statistics for the real deal afterwards.



            RPG is about telling a story. The game rules exist for gamifying that. The informal rules called Golden Rule and the Rule of Awesome are your friends here.



            One caveat: After the big reveal, control of the lizard-that-was-a-deva-all-this-time should not remain with the player. Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Mindwin

            13.8k40139




            13.8k40139












            • "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
              – V2Blast
              yesterday


















            • "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
              – V2Blast
              yesterday
















            "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
            – V2Blast
            yesterday




            "Also make sure none of the other players get angry or envious of the demigod status this one earned. Counterbalance with lots of trouble as one would in a novel." - It may be worth keeping in mind that one of the issues with making one character (but not others) a "demigod" or the like is that it essentially focuses the spotlight on one character. Having their demigod status cause problems in addition to benefiting them may simply worsen that problem, in that it causes the story to focus on them even more.
            – V2Blast
            yesterday











            1














            You’re the DM. It’s ultimately up to you. The DMG, Monster Manual, all the rule books are just a guide. You get to choose how to use them. Try your angel in disguise thing and see how it all turns out. Get creative with making your own rules. Etc. Just make sure your party knows everything they need to know without ruining the story.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.























              1














              You’re the DM. It’s ultimately up to you. The DMG, Monster Manual, all the rule books are just a guide. You get to choose how to use them. Try your angel in disguise thing and see how it all turns out. Get creative with making your own rules. Etc. Just make sure your party knows everything they need to know without ruining the story.






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                1












                1








                1






                You’re the DM. It’s ultimately up to you. The DMG, Monster Manual, all the rule books are just a guide. You get to choose how to use them. Try your angel in disguise thing and see how it all turns out. Get creative with making your own rules. Etc. Just make sure your party knows everything they need to know without ruining the story.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                You’re the DM. It’s ultimately up to you. The DMG, Monster Manual, all the rule books are just a guide. You get to choose how to use them. Try your angel in disguise thing and see how it all turns out. Get creative with making your own rules. Etc. Just make sure your party knows everything they need to know without ruining the story.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 2 days ago









                SevenSidedDie

                205k29656933




                205k29656933






                New contributor




                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 2 days ago









                justpassingby

                111




                111




                New contributor




                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                justpassingby is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






















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