Do rivets on airframe need special sealant to be airtight on pressurized airliners?
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
$endgroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
edited 2 days ago
Meatball Princess
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
asked 2 days ago
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
2419
2419
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
$endgroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
answered 2 days ago
John KJohn K
16.1k11748
16.1k11748
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
add a comment |
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
10
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
2 days ago
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
yesterday
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
2 days ago