Did Lord Vishnu spoke in support of birth-based or conduct-based varna?












3















Are there any instances of Lord Vishnu or any of his avatars speaking in favour of either conduct-based or birth-based varna?






vishnu caste-system varna







share|improve this question

























  • I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago













  • @Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • @Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • No, in their next birth.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago
















3















Are there any instances of Lord Vishnu or any of his avatars speaking in favour of either conduct-based or birth-based varna?






vishnu caste-system varna







share|improve this question

























  • I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago













  • @Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • @Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • No, in their next birth.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago














3












3








3


1






Are there any instances of Lord Vishnu or any of his avatars speaking in favour of either conduct-based or birth-based varna?






vishnu caste-system varna







share|improve this question
















Are there any instances of Lord Vishnu or any of his avatars speaking in favour of either conduct-based or birth-based varna?






vishnu caste-system varna




vishnu caste-system varna






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago







Ajay Varma

















asked 2 days ago









Ajay VarmaAjay Varma

1386




1386













  • I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago













  • @Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • @Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • No, in their next birth.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago



















  • I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago













  • @Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • @Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

    – Ajay Varma
    2 days ago











  • No, in their next birth.

    – Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
    2 days ago

















I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

– Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
2 days ago







I hope you don't mind me changing the term "guna" as "conduct". Because supporters of birth based varna say guna is involved in deriding one's varna too.

– Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
2 days ago















@Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

– Ajay Varma
2 days ago





@Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury all right

– Ajay Varma
2 days ago













@Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

– Ajay Varma
2 days ago





@Surya Kanta Bose Deriding? Did you mean deciding or degrading? According to birth-based varna supporters if a person is of good guna does he attain a higher varna in his/her current birth?

– Ajay Varma
2 days ago













No, in their next birth.

– Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
2 days ago





No, in their next birth.

– Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4














Lord Vishnu in the form of Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita:




मां हि पार्थ ब्यापाश्रित्य येऽपि स्युः पापयोनयः।स्त्रियो वैश्यास्तथा शूद्रासतेऽपि यान्ति परां गतिम्॥



English Translation: For finding refuge in Me, O Arjuna, even those who maybe of sinful birth, women, Vaishyas and similarly Shudras, even they reach the Supreme goal. (Bhagavad-Gita 9.32).




I think the very word paapyoni makes it clear that He accepts the birth-based varna system. Also, He did not protest at all when Arjuna spoke ill words about the Varnasankaras.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 3





    hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

    – Rakesh Joshi
    yesterday



















1














Yes, according to the Vishnu Smriti:




Viṣṇu (16.1).—‘On women equal in caste to their husbands, sons are
begotten who are equal in caste to their fathers.’







share|improve this answer



















  • 4





    Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

    – Partha Banerjee
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

    – sv.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

    – Ajay Varma
    yesterday



















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4














Lord Vishnu in the form of Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita:




मां हि पार्थ ब्यापाश्रित्य येऽपि स्युः पापयोनयः।स्त्रियो वैश्यास्तथा शूद्रासतेऽपि यान्ति परां गतिम्॥



English Translation: For finding refuge in Me, O Arjuna, even those who maybe of sinful birth, women, Vaishyas and similarly Shudras, even they reach the Supreme goal. (Bhagavad-Gita 9.32).




I think the very word paapyoni makes it clear that He accepts the birth-based varna system. Also, He did not protest at all when Arjuna spoke ill words about the Varnasankaras.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 3





    hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

    – Rakesh Joshi
    yesterday
















4














Lord Vishnu in the form of Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita:




मां हि पार्थ ब्यापाश्रित्य येऽपि स्युः पापयोनयः।स्त्रियो वैश्यास्तथा शूद्रासतेऽपि यान्ति परां गतिम्॥



English Translation: For finding refuge in Me, O Arjuna, even those who maybe of sinful birth, women, Vaishyas and similarly Shudras, even they reach the Supreme goal. (Bhagavad-Gita 9.32).




I think the very word paapyoni makes it clear that He accepts the birth-based varna system. Also, He did not protest at all when Arjuna spoke ill words about the Varnasankaras.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 3





    hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

    – Rakesh Joshi
    yesterday














4












4








4







Lord Vishnu in the form of Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita:




मां हि पार्थ ब्यापाश्रित्य येऽपि स्युः पापयोनयः।स्त्रियो वैश्यास्तथा शूद्रासतेऽपि यान्ति परां गतिम्॥



English Translation: For finding refuge in Me, O Arjuna, even those who maybe of sinful birth, women, Vaishyas and similarly Shudras, even they reach the Supreme goal. (Bhagavad-Gita 9.32).




I think the very word paapyoni makes it clear that He accepts the birth-based varna system. Also, He did not protest at all when Arjuna spoke ill words about the Varnasankaras.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










Lord Vishnu in the form of Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita:




मां हि पार्थ ब्यापाश्रित्य येऽपि स्युः पापयोनयः।स्त्रियो वैश्यास्तथा शूद्रासतेऽपि यान्ति परां गतिम्॥



English Translation: For finding refuge in Me, O Arjuna, even those who maybe of sinful birth, women, Vaishyas and similarly Shudras, even they reach the Supreme goal. (Bhagavad-Gita 9.32).




I think the very word paapyoni makes it clear that He accepts the birth-based varna system. Also, He did not protest at all when Arjuna spoke ill words about the Varnasankaras.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago









Surya Kanta Bose Chowdhury

6,62331363




6,62331363






New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 2 days ago









Partha BanerjeePartha Banerjee

379114




379114




New contributor




Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Partha Banerjee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 3





    hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

    – Rakesh Joshi
    yesterday



















  • Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 3





    hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

    – Rakesh Joshi
    yesterday

















Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago





Good answer. And Krishna also did not protest at all when Duryodhana called Vidura a Shudra in front of Krishna.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago




3




3





hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

– Rakesh Joshi
yesterday





hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18893/…

– Rakesh Joshi
yesterday











1














Yes, according to the Vishnu Smriti:




Viṣṇu (16.1).—‘On women equal in caste to their husbands, sons are
begotten who are equal in caste to their fathers.’







share|improve this answer



















  • 4





    Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

    – Partha Banerjee
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

    – sv.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

    – Ajay Varma
    yesterday
















1














Yes, according to the Vishnu Smriti:




Viṣṇu (16.1).—‘On women equal in caste to their husbands, sons are
begotten who are equal in caste to their fathers.’







share|improve this answer



















  • 4





    Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

    – Partha Banerjee
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

    – sv.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

    – Ajay Varma
    yesterday














1












1








1







Yes, according to the Vishnu Smriti:




Viṣṇu (16.1).—‘On women equal in caste to their husbands, sons are
begotten who are equal in caste to their fathers.’







share|improve this answer













Yes, according to the Vishnu Smriti:




Viṣṇu (16.1).—‘On women equal in caste to their husbands, sons are
begotten who are equal in caste to their fathers.’








share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









IkshvakuIkshvaku

3,502429




3,502429








  • 4





    Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

    – Partha Banerjee
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

    – sv.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

    – Ajay Varma
    yesterday














  • 4





    Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

    – Partha Banerjee
    2 days ago






  • 2





    "the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

    – sv.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

    – Ikshvaku
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

    – Ajay Varma
    yesterday








4




4





Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

– Partha Banerjee
2 days ago





Are you sure Vishnu-smriti was composed by Lord Vishnu? I think it was written by some sage named Vishnu.

– Partha Banerjee
2 days ago




2




2





"the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

– sv.
2 days ago





"the Vishnu Smriti is the work of a single Brahmin expert in the Dharmaśāstra tradition and also a devotee of Vishnu. Olivelle shows that the text was very likely composed between 700 and 1000 CE". So this doesn't qualify as an answer.

– sv.
2 days ago




1




1





@sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago





@sv. Of course Patrick Olivelle and all other Indologists will say that everything, including the Vedas and Gita, were fabricated by Brahmins. That's just not what Hindus believe.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago




1




1





@sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago





@sv. No I don't need to do that, because it's well know the Vishnu Smriti is a dialogue of Vishnu.

– Ikshvaku
2 days ago




1




1





@Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

– Ajay Varma
yesterday





@Ikshvaku In that case can we consider Vajrasuchi upanishad as the word of Rama? Since Muktikā upanishads are part of dialogue between Rama and Hanuman. According to the wikipedia article anyone who reads one of the 108 upanishads with devotion would get status of union with Rama.

– Ajay Varma
yesterday



-

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