Explain why “Who is she playing the piano?” is incorrect
A teacher asked me this question and I am having a hard time finding a simple way to explain it for her to share with her students. I`m looking for the easiest way to explain it to her because she teaches Junior High School English in Japan.
The students were given a picture prompt and expected to answer with,
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
Many of the students wrote,
"Who is she playing the piano?"
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
Thank you so much for your help!
sentence-structure pronouns
New contributor
add a comment |
A teacher asked me this question and I am having a hard time finding a simple way to explain it for her to share with her students. I`m looking for the easiest way to explain it to her because she teaches Junior High School English in Japan.
The students were given a picture prompt and expected to answer with,
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
Many of the students wrote,
"Who is she playing the piano?"
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
Thank you so much for your help!
sentence-structure pronouns
New contributor
2
You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
add a comment |
A teacher asked me this question and I am having a hard time finding a simple way to explain it for her to share with her students. I`m looking for the easiest way to explain it to her because she teaches Junior High School English in Japan.
The students were given a picture prompt and expected to answer with,
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
Many of the students wrote,
"Who is she playing the piano?"
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
Thank you so much for your help!
sentence-structure pronouns
New contributor
A teacher asked me this question and I am having a hard time finding a simple way to explain it for her to share with her students. I`m looking for the easiest way to explain it to her because she teaches Junior High School English in Japan.
The students were given a picture prompt and expected to answer with,
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
Many of the students wrote,
"Who is she playing the piano?"
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
Thank you so much for your help!
sentence-structure pronouns
sentence-structure pronouns
New contributor
New contributor
edited Jan 8 at 2:20
Maryam
1,37021735
1,37021735
New contributor
asked Jan 8 at 0:55
HojoHojo
306125
306125
New contributor
New contributor
2
You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
add a comment |
2
You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
2
2
You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
3
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
add a comment |
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
You can use she, if you pause to make the meaning clear:
Who is she, playing the piano?
Without the pause, this is a kind of "garden path" sentence, because it leads you to a wrong expectation about how the sentence will end, creating a cognitive dissonance.
Once you hear "who is she playing..." you expect the sentence to end with something like "at tennis on Tuesday?", and the question to be about who she is playing against, rather than who she is to begin with.
Edit
As mentioned in comments, a more common way to express this in everyday speech would be
Who is that playing the piano?
However, I don't believe it would be fair to mark a student wrong for using she.
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
|
show 22 more comments
I believe this sentence can sometimes be grammatically correct. It has to do with appositive phrases. The sentence structure is
Who is [noun phrase]?
Between the brackets, one can put anything that would also be grammatically correct in
[noun phrase] is my sister.
Now our noun phrase consists of the noun "she" followed by the appositive "playing the piano". The rules of grammar generally say that if "she" is not ambiguous (it is clear who "she" is), then use commas to set off the appositive phrase. So if there is only one woman in the room, you must write:
Who is she, playing the piano?
She, playing the piano, is my sister.
However, if there is ambiguity and it is resolved by the appositive phrase, we should not use commas. I think these are correct:
There are two women in that corner. She playing the piano is my sister, while she playing the viola is my mother.
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
Of course, it is an awkward and formal phrasing that a native English speaker probably wouldn't use. They would more likely say "the girl playing the piano". But that doesn't make it wrong.
New contributor
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Personal pronouns don't want to be directly modified, especially in the subjective case.
We naturally say things like "That tall girl is in my class" and "The girl playing piano is very good". Nouns like "girl" work well with adjectives and participial phrases.
We don't naturally say things like "That tall she is in my class" or "She playing piano is very good". The pronoun "she" acts more like a complete and finished noun phrase than a simple noun. It doesn't play nicely with things like adjectives and participial phrases.
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 8 more comments
I would explain it very simply: a pronoun is supposed to refer clearly to a noun, usually one that precedes the pronoun. The meaning of "pronoun" is something that takes the place of a noun.
An interrogative pronoun will normally not be preceded by a noun because of the way questions are formed in English, but the expectation is that the noun being referred to will follow the pronoun quickly. In the sentence recommended against, there is no noun at all for either "she" or "who."
Thus, the sentence is awkward and not highly idiomatic. I do not think it is ungrammatical, but it is hard to follow. It still would be a bit odd, but much clearer to say "Who is she that is playing the piano." Now the entire clause will be heard as a substitute for a specific noun.
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
add a comment |
The answers by The Photon and Gary Potnovcan explain it well, in my opinion, but I'd like to include and addendum focusing on the fact that you're teaching Japanese students.
English pronouns versus Japanese "pronouns"
Let me start quoting Wikipedia:
In linguistics, generativists and other structuralists suggest that the Japanese language does not have pronouns as such, since, unlike pronouns in most other languages that have them, these words are syntactically and morphologically identical to nouns.
So first of all, the confusion of the students is completely understandable because in Japanese the "pronouns" work exactly as nouns. The word the students were probably thinking of is 彼女 (kanojo), which is often translated as "she", but can simply mean "the woman" (excluding the speaker and the person being spoken to). In other words, 彼女 can literally be translated as "the girl" as well.
That said, I believe that, from a teaching perspective, this is a great opportunity to insist on the differences between English pronouns and Japanese "pronouns". Context is a very strong thing in Japanese, almost everything can be omitted and context will do its work. English on the other hand is not: for example, every English clause must have a subject. When there isn't a useful one, we put an "it" there. This is very odd for japanese English learners.
So, what exactly is a pronoun? I am not a linguist, but I'll try: "a pronoun is a word that refers to some other noun that was mentioned before, or is about to be mentioned, or can be inferred by context". If this is not strictly correct, recall that beginners are being taught here so minor nitpicks can be postponed.
In Japanese, we don't use anything like the above definition of pronoun, context itself works already. But in English, we need a word. English sentences have structures much more "solid". Instead of simply omitting everything that can be inferred, as is done in Japanese, in English those things are replaced by pronouns.
So, if we wanted to ask
Who is the girl that I am pointing to right now?
In Japanese we can let context do its work by asking
誰?(dare?)
which is literally just "who?", while in English we need to follow the structural boilerplate which requires a verb and at least a pronoun:
Who is she?
and here "she" is the word that carries the context inside it.
Hopefully this will help clearing things up with the students that might be thinking that she and the girl are exactly the same thing.
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
add a comment |
UPDATE
The solution is the one provided by the OP
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
If you want to know why using "she" in place of "the girl" is mistaken, see @Pedro A and @Gary Botnovcan's answers. But if someone is interested to see how "she" can fit into a grammatical sentence, see my answer below.
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
You can use “she” but the meaning will be different.
Who is he fighting? (correct and most common in speech)
Whom is he fighting? (formal)
Who is the person he is fighting against?Who is she talking to?
To whom is she talking?
Who is the person (or people) she is talking to?Who are they going to compete with?
With whom are they going to compete?
Who is the person (or people) they are going to compete with?Who is she playing the piano? (odd sounding)
To fix this question you need a preposition.a) Who is she playing the piano with?
b) With whom is she playing the piano? (very formal and rarely heard in speech)
c) Who is she playing the piano to?
d) To whom is she playing the piano?
e) Who is she playing for?
f) For whom is she playing the piano?
Sentences b), d) and f) are a very formal way of asking a question and rarely heard or used in speech today but for some prescriptivists, the pronoun whom, which refers to the object of a preposition, is considered to be the only grammatically correct choice. Well, I'm sorry, they are sadly mistaken.
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
I parse this as similar to:
Who does she think she is, playing the piano?
or
Who is she, to be playing the piano?
The original phrase suggests to me that the piano player is in some way out of place, and the emphasis is not just on the identity of the she
, but more on something less pleasant. Depending on the context of the phrase, it may be intended as discriminatory, or it may accidentally reflect a phrasing which has been used to discriminate in the past. Obviously in the context asked it is accidental, but that doesn't capture potential confusion if this sort of phrase is used in conversation.
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
add a comment |
When you are asking about identity, it is a good idea to give the category of person,
- student
- teacher
- man, woman, child
- person
- your friend, their friend etc.
Who is she? [she is not identified at all]. She is my friend and a nice person.
Who is your friend playing the piano?
Who is that person playing the piano?
Who is that playing the piano? [that=that person]
That's the easiest answer I can come up with.
"Who is" introduces a question. It may be followed by:
- a noun: Who is John? Who is that man? Who is the winner?
- an adjective: Who is late?
- a verb: Who is coming to the party. [John is coming to the party.] Who plays the piano?
The pronoun "who" is a subject pronoun in the question "who is [plus verb or noun]", ergo, saying she is ungrammatical. You can't have "who" as an interrogative pronoun and she as a subject pronoun together.
Please note:
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
In the interrogative form, you do not use a pronoun when the identity is unknown.
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
versus- Who is Mary? She is a pianist.
- Who is she? She is Mary.
In the interrogative form, there is no **she (pronoun) because the pronoun here, the subject pronoun is "who".** Therefore, "Who is she playing the piano?" would be providing two subject pronouns.
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I don't know if this will help your students, but here goes. From the formal linguistics perspective, the intended question is constructed by starting with
play piano
Then you attach the interrogative pronoun 'who' as the subject
who play piano
So there's no place for another subject pronoun.
When you make it present tense and imperfective aspect, the verb structure becomes
be who playing piano
The subject 'who' raises to subject position and triggers agreement with 'be' to form
who is playing piano
It's possible that your students are misunderstanding 'who' as a complementizer instead of a pronoun. So in their incorrect sentence 'who is she playing the piano' the 'who' might be intended to correspond to 'whether' in
I wonder whether she is playing the piano
Theoretically, there's a wh-complementizer at the very top of the correct question structure, but it has no spoken content in English. It's similar to 'that' that can be left out here:
I think that she is playing the piano
I think she is playing the piano
Another possibility is that the students are attempting to form
Who is she that is playing the piano
and are trying to use a null complementizer instead of 'that' which isn't allowed in English here. As in, they are forming a phrase parallel to
I like the girl that is playing the piano (but not some other girl)
which you can rephrase without the 'that is'
I like the girl playing the piano (but not some other girl)
The students may also be simply misunderstanding the prompt: Are they supposed to ask a question about the girl's identity, or what she's doing?
Incidentally, questions in English are especially weird when they involve the subject, so I'm not surprised to see ESL students struggling with them. Among other weirdness, they don't trigger do-support:
*Who does be playing the piano
New contributor
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I think it's because a participle (such as playing the piano) can't modify a personal pronoun (such as she).
These are all correct:
- Who are you looking at? The girl playing the piano.
- Who is the girl playing the piano?
- The girl playing the piano is Sarah.
These are all incorrect:
- Who are you looking at? Her playing the piano.
- Who is she playing the piano?
- She playing the piano is Sarah.
add a comment |
My two cents:
I've learned that there is a little difference left between using 'who,' and 'whom.' The easiest way (as a non-native speaker), I can say the students should use the girl instead of the pronoun to avoid ambiguity.
We often say,
She is buying me a doll.
Here, we have a subject, indirect object, and direct object.
If you remove the indirect object, the question could be formed as:
Who is she buying a doll?
There is me in the sentence and thus, the answer is me.
But, in your question, it becomes ambiguous.
Who is she playing the piano?
The answer could be *'she's playing her brother the piano.'*
Replacing the pronoun with a noun (girl) ends all the ambiguities. There, clearly, the subject is playing the piano...and of course for no one!
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
|
show 12 more comments
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11 Answers
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You can use she, if you pause to make the meaning clear:
Who is she, playing the piano?
Without the pause, this is a kind of "garden path" sentence, because it leads you to a wrong expectation about how the sentence will end, creating a cognitive dissonance.
Once you hear "who is she playing..." you expect the sentence to end with something like "at tennis on Tuesday?", and the question to be about who she is playing against, rather than who she is to begin with.
Edit
As mentioned in comments, a more common way to express this in everyday speech would be
Who is that playing the piano?
However, I don't believe it would be fair to mark a student wrong for using she.
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
|
show 22 more comments
You can use she, if you pause to make the meaning clear:
Who is she, playing the piano?
Without the pause, this is a kind of "garden path" sentence, because it leads you to a wrong expectation about how the sentence will end, creating a cognitive dissonance.
Once you hear "who is she playing..." you expect the sentence to end with something like "at tennis on Tuesday?", and the question to be about who she is playing against, rather than who she is to begin with.
Edit
As mentioned in comments, a more common way to express this in everyday speech would be
Who is that playing the piano?
However, I don't believe it would be fair to mark a student wrong for using she.
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
|
show 22 more comments
You can use she, if you pause to make the meaning clear:
Who is she, playing the piano?
Without the pause, this is a kind of "garden path" sentence, because it leads you to a wrong expectation about how the sentence will end, creating a cognitive dissonance.
Once you hear "who is she playing..." you expect the sentence to end with something like "at tennis on Tuesday?", and the question to be about who she is playing against, rather than who she is to begin with.
Edit
As mentioned in comments, a more common way to express this in everyday speech would be
Who is that playing the piano?
However, I don't believe it would be fair to mark a student wrong for using she.
You can use she, if you pause to make the meaning clear:
Who is she, playing the piano?
Without the pause, this is a kind of "garden path" sentence, because it leads you to a wrong expectation about how the sentence will end, creating a cognitive dissonance.
Once you hear "who is she playing..." you expect the sentence to end with something like "at tennis on Tuesday?", and the question to be about who she is playing against, rather than who she is to begin with.
Edit
As mentioned in comments, a more common way to express this in everyday speech would be
Who is that playing the piano?
However, I don't believe it would be fair to mark a student wrong for using she.
edited 2 days ago
answered Jan 8 at 2:08
The PhotonThe Photon
6,07811015
6,07811015
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
|
show 22 more comments
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
7
7
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
It should be a semicolon because it replaces that is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
4
4
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
Your suggested sentence "Who is she playing "at" tennis on Tuesday?" is ungrammatical. It should be "Who is she playing tennis (with) on Tuesday?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
4
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
No, "...playing at tennis" is fine. It makes clear that you're talking about the opponent (whereas in "..playing tennis with" it could also be a doubles partner)
– Rupe
2 days ago
11
11
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
@Mazura A semicolon should be able to be substituted for either a comma or a period. "Playing the piano" can't stand on its own, so a semicolon is inappropriate here.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
16
16
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
@Mazura The "playing the piano" phrase is an appositive so separating it by a comma is the correct structure.
– Harrison Paine
2 days ago
|
show 22 more comments
I believe this sentence can sometimes be grammatically correct. It has to do with appositive phrases. The sentence structure is
Who is [noun phrase]?
Between the brackets, one can put anything that would also be grammatically correct in
[noun phrase] is my sister.
Now our noun phrase consists of the noun "she" followed by the appositive "playing the piano". The rules of grammar generally say that if "she" is not ambiguous (it is clear who "she" is), then use commas to set off the appositive phrase. So if there is only one woman in the room, you must write:
Who is she, playing the piano?
She, playing the piano, is my sister.
However, if there is ambiguity and it is resolved by the appositive phrase, we should not use commas. I think these are correct:
There are two women in that corner. She playing the piano is my sister, while she playing the viola is my mother.
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
Of course, it is an awkward and formal phrasing that a native English speaker probably wouldn't use. They would more likely say "the girl playing the piano". But that doesn't make it wrong.
New contributor
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I believe this sentence can sometimes be grammatically correct. It has to do with appositive phrases. The sentence structure is
Who is [noun phrase]?
Between the brackets, one can put anything that would also be grammatically correct in
[noun phrase] is my sister.
Now our noun phrase consists of the noun "she" followed by the appositive "playing the piano". The rules of grammar generally say that if "she" is not ambiguous (it is clear who "she" is), then use commas to set off the appositive phrase. So if there is only one woman in the room, you must write:
Who is she, playing the piano?
She, playing the piano, is my sister.
However, if there is ambiguity and it is resolved by the appositive phrase, we should not use commas. I think these are correct:
There are two women in that corner. She playing the piano is my sister, while she playing the viola is my mother.
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
Of course, it is an awkward and formal phrasing that a native English speaker probably wouldn't use. They would more likely say "the girl playing the piano". But that doesn't make it wrong.
New contributor
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I believe this sentence can sometimes be grammatically correct. It has to do with appositive phrases. The sentence structure is
Who is [noun phrase]?
Between the brackets, one can put anything that would also be grammatically correct in
[noun phrase] is my sister.
Now our noun phrase consists of the noun "she" followed by the appositive "playing the piano". The rules of grammar generally say that if "she" is not ambiguous (it is clear who "she" is), then use commas to set off the appositive phrase. So if there is only one woman in the room, you must write:
Who is she, playing the piano?
She, playing the piano, is my sister.
However, if there is ambiguity and it is resolved by the appositive phrase, we should not use commas. I think these are correct:
There are two women in that corner. She playing the piano is my sister, while she playing the viola is my mother.
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
Of course, it is an awkward and formal phrasing that a native English speaker probably wouldn't use. They would more likely say "the girl playing the piano". But that doesn't make it wrong.
New contributor
I believe this sentence can sometimes be grammatically correct. It has to do with appositive phrases. The sentence structure is
Who is [noun phrase]?
Between the brackets, one can put anything that would also be grammatically correct in
[noun phrase] is my sister.
Now our noun phrase consists of the noun "she" followed by the appositive "playing the piano". The rules of grammar generally say that if "she" is not ambiguous (it is clear who "she" is), then use commas to set off the appositive phrase. So if there is only one woman in the room, you must write:
Who is she, playing the piano?
She, playing the piano, is my sister.
However, if there is ambiguity and it is resolved by the appositive phrase, we should not use commas. I think these are correct:
There are two women in that corner. She playing the piano is my sister, while she playing the viola is my mother.
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
Of course, it is an awkward and formal phrasing that a native English speaker probably wouldn't use. They would more likely say "the girl playing the piano". But that doesn't make it wrong.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
usulusul
39112
39112
New contributor
New contributor
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
5
5
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
There are two women in that corner. Who is she playing the piano?
by adding context (there are two women) the original sentence is clearer, which is fine because in speech there is always going to be context. But what I find objectionable is the assumption a native speaker would use "she" when it has been immediately established that the two people are women. In that scenario, I would ask: "Who is the one playing the piano?"– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
5
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
Similarly, in the mother and sister scenario, I am sure the majority of native speakers would use the impersonal pronoun "one": "The one playing the piano is my sister while my mother is the one playing the viola"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
3
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
I would not recommend this alternative in a ESL classroom, but for advanced students, "Who is she, playing the piano?" can be an expression both of sarcasm and distaste for the performer. (the emphasis on "she" and the comma after are critical.)
– Carl Witthoft
yesterday
2
2
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
This answer is incorrect. :(
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
3
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
Would a native speaker ever say "We, fighting the enemy, are exhausted"? "They, driving the pink Cadillac, are my neighbors?" Both are comprehensible but they are not idiomatic. Likewise "She, playing the piano, is my sister" is unidiomatic. I would simply say "The girl playing the piano is my sister" OR "My sister is the one playing the piano" if there were more than one musician playing in the room or if she were playing in an orchestra.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Personal pronouns don't want to be directly modified, especially in the subjective case.
We naturally say things like "That tall girl is in my class" and "The girl playing piano is very good". Nouns like "girl" work well with adjectives and participial phrases.
We don't naturally say things like "That tall she is in my class" or "She playing piano is very good". The pronoun "she" acts more like a complete and finished noun phrase than a simple noun. It doesn't play nicely with things like adjectives and participial phrases.
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 8 more comments
Personal pronouns don't want to be directly modified, especially in the subjective case.
We naturally say things like "That tall girl is in my class" and "The girl playing piano is very good". Nouns like "girl" work well with adjectives and participial phrases.
We don't naturally say things like "That tall she is in my class" or "She playing piano is very good". The pronoun "she" acts more like a complete and finished noun phrase than a simple noun. It doesn't play nicely with things like adjectives and participial phrases.
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 8 more comments
Personal pronouns don't want to be directly modified, especially in the subjective case.
We naturally say things like "That tall girl is in my class" and "The girl playing piano is very good". Nouns like "girl" work well with adjectives and participial phrases.
We don't naturally say things like "That tall she is in my class" or "She playing piano is very good". The pronoun "she" acts more like a complete and finished noun phrase than a simple noun. It doesn't play nicely with things like adjectives and participial phrases.
Personal pronouns don't want to be directly modified, especially in the subjective case.
We naturally say things like "That tall girl is in my class" and "The girl playing piano is very good". Nouns like "girl" work well with adjectives and participial phrases.
We don't naturally say things like "That tall she is in my class" or "She playing piano is very good". The pronoun "she" acts more like a complete and finished noun phrase than a simple noun. It doesn't play nicely with things like adjectives and participial phrases.
answered 2 days ago
Gary BotnovcanGary Botnovcan
9,2641027
9,2641027
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 8 more comments
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
As a side note, Shakespeare gets away with a similar weird usage in the last lines of Sonnet 130: "And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare | As any she belied with false compare."
– barbecue
2 days ago
5
5
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
This is the only answer that actually answers the question, I believe. +1. Other answers seem to focus on the plausible semantics of the given sentence, not on the syntax of the intended meaning.
– justhalf
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
That's true enough, @Barbecue, and it's reason enough to avoid saying that we never modify subjective personal pronouns. However, Shakespeare's work differs from what those junior high students are trying to do in two important ways. He wrote poetry in a now-obsolete dialect. They're writing simple contemporary prose.
– Gary Botnovcan
2 days ago
3
3
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
+1, though it's a bit of an oversimplification; something like "she who is playing the piano" or "she of the long hair" is grammatical but literary, whereas the OP's *"she playing the piano" is out-and-out ungrammatical.
– ruakh
2 days ago
1
1
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
@barbecue: I don't understand your comment. I don't see any similarity between the OP's example and your Shakespeare example. Which part/aspect of it strikes you as "a similar weird usage"?
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 8 more comments
I would explain it very simply: a pronoun is supposed to refer clearly to a noun, usually one that precedes the pronoun. The meaning of "pronoun" is something that takes the place of a noun.
An interrogative pronoun will normally not be preceded by a noun because of the way questions are formed in English, but the expectation is that the noun being referred to will follow the pronoun quickly. In the sentence recommended against, there is no noun at all for either "she" or "who."
Thus, the sentence is awkward and not highly idiomatic. I do not think it is ungrammatical, but it is hard to follow. It still would be a bit odd, but much clearer to say "Who is she that is playing the piano." Now the entire clause will be heard as a substitute for a specific noun.
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
add a comment |
I would explain it very simply: a pronoun is supposed to refer clearly to a noun, usually one that precedes the pronoun. The meaning of "pronoun" is something that takes the place of a noun.
An interrogative pronoun will normally not be preceded by a noun because of the way questions are formed in English, but the expectation is that the noun being referred to will follow the pronoun quickly. In the sentence recommended against, there is no noun at all for either "she" or "who."
Thus, the sentence is awkward and not highly idiomatic. I do not think it is ungrammatical, but it is hard to follow. It still would be a bit odd, but much clearer to say "Who is she that is playing the piano." Now the entire clause will be heard as a substitute for a specific noun.
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
add a comment |
I would explain it very simply: a pronoun is supposed to refer clearly to a noun, usually one that precedes the pronoun. The meaning of "pronoun" is something that takes the place of a noun.
An interrogative pronoun will normally not be preceded by a noun because of the way questions are formed in English, but the expectation is that the noun being referred to will follow the pronoun quickly. In the sentence recommended against, there is no noun at all for either "she" or "who."
Thus, the sentence is awkward and not highly idiomatic. I do not think it is ungrammatical, but it is hard to follow. It still would be a bit odd, but much clearer to say "Who is she that is playing the piano." Now the entire clause will be heard as a substitute for a specific noun.
I would explain it very simply: a pronoun is supposed to refer clearly to a noun, usually one that precedes the pronoun. The meaning of "pronoun" is something that takes the place of a noun.
An interrogative pronoun will normally not be preceded by a noun because of the way questions are formed in English, but the expectation is that the noun being referred to will follow the pronoun quickly. In the sentence recommended against, there is no noun at all for either "she" or "who."
Thus, the sentence is awkward and not highly idiomatic. I do not think it is ungrammatical, but it is hard to follow. It still would be a bit odd, but much clearer to say "Who is she that is playing the piano." Now the entire clause will be heard as a substitute for a specific noun.
answered Jan 8 at 2:43
Jeff MorrowJeff Morrow
9,7121024
9,7121024
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
add a comment |
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
2
2
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
I like this answer because a sequence like "Who is this annoying idiot at the altar? Who is he ruining my wedding??" seems more natural than the last sentence on its own, without reference. Btw, it's perhaps even a common rhetorical figure for arrogantly addressing somebody in the third person: "Who is he disturbing my dinner?"
– Peter A. Schneider
22 hours ago
add a comment |
The answers by The Photon and Gary Potnovcan explain it well, in my opinion, but I'd like to include and addendum focusing on the fact that you're teaching Japanese students.
English pronouns versus Japanese "pronouns"
Let me start quoting Wikipedia:
In linguistics, generativists and other structuralists suggest that the Japanese language does not have pronouns as such, since, unlike pronouns in most other languages that have them, these words are syntactically and morphologically identical to nouns.
So first of all, the confusion of the students is completely understandable because in Japanese the "pronouns" work exactly as nouns. The word the students were probably thinking of is 彼女 (kanojo), which is often translated as "she", but can simply mean "the woman" (excluding the speaker and the person being spoken to). In other words, 彼女 can literally be translated as "the girl" as well.
That said, I believe that, from a teaching perspective, this is a great opportunity to insist on the differences between English pronouns and Japanese "pronouns". Context is a very strong thing in Japanese, almost everything can be omitted and context will do its work. English on the other hand is not: for example, every English clause must have a subject. When there isn't a useful one, we put an "it" there. This is very odd for japanese English learners.
So, what exactly is a pronoun? I am not a linguist, but I'll try: "a pronoun is a word that refers to some other noun that was mentioned before, or is about to be mentioned, or can be inferred by context". If this is not strictly correct, recall that beginners are being taught here so minor nitpicks can be postponed.
In Japanese, we don't use anything like the above definition of pronoun, context itself works already. But in English, we need a word. English sentences have structures much more "solid". Instead of simply omitting everything that can be inferred, as is done in Japanese, in English those things are replaced by pronouns.
So, if we wanted to ask
Who is the girl that I am pointing to right now?
In Japanese we can let context do its work by asking
誰?(dare?)
which is literally just "who?", while in English we need to follow the structural boilerplate which requires a verb and at least a pronoun:
Who is she?
and here "she" is the word that carries the context inside it.
Hopefully this will help clearing things up with the students that might be thinking that she and the girl are exactly the same thing.
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The answers by The Photon and Gary Potnovcan explain it well, in my opinion, but I'd like to include and addendum focusing on the fact that you're teaching Japanese students.
English pronouns versus Japanese "pronouns"
Let me start quoting Wikipedia:
In linguistics, generativists and other structuralists suggest that the Japanese language does not have pronouns as such, since, unlike pronouns in most other languages that have them, these words are syntactically and morphologically identical to nouns.
So first of all, the confusion of the students is completely understandable because in Japanese the "pronouns" work exactly as nouns. The word the students were probably thinking of is 彼女 (kanojo), which is often translated as "she", but can simply mean "the woman" (excluding the speaker and the person being spoken to). In other words, 彼女 can literally be translated as "the girl" as well.
That said, I believe that, from a teaching perspective, this is a great opportunity to insist on the differences between English pronouns and Japanese "pronouns". Context is a very strong thing in Japanese, almost everything can be omitted and context will do its work. English on the other hand is not: for example, every English clause must have a subject. When there isn't a useful one, we put an "it" there. This is very odd for japanese English learners.
So, what exactly is a pronoun? I am not a linguist, but I'll try: "a pronoun is a word that refers to some other noun that was mentioned before, or is about to be mentioned, or can be inferred by context". If this is not strictly correct, recall that beginners are being taught here so minor nitpicks can be postponed.
In Japanese, we don't use anything like the above definition of pronoun, context itself works already. But in English, we need a word. English sentences have structures much more "solid". Instead of simply omitting everything that can be inferred, as is done in Japanese, in English those things are replaced by pronouns.
So, if we wanted to ask
Who is the girl that I am pointing to right now?
In Japanese we can let context do its work by asking
誰?(dare?)
which is literally just "who?", while in English we need to follow the structural boilerplate which requires a verb and at least a pronoun:
Who is she?
and here "she" is the word that carries the context inside it.
Hopefully this will help clearing things up with the students that might be thinking that she and the girl are exactly the same thing.
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The answers by The Photon and Gary Potnovcan explain it well, in my opinion, but I'd like to include and addendum focusing on the fact that you're teaching Japanese students.
English pronouns versus Japanese "pronouns"
Let me start quoting Wikipedia:
In linguistics, generativists and other structuralists suggest that the Japanese language does not have pronouns as such, since, unlike pronouns in most other languages that have them, these words are syntactically and morphologically identical to nouns.
So first of all, the confusion of the students is completely understandable because in Japanese the "pronouns" work exactly as nouns. The word the students were probably thinking of is 彼女 (kanojo), which is often translated as "she", but can simply mean "the woman" (excluding the speaker and the person being spoken to). In other words, 彼女 can literally be translated as "the girl" as well.
That said, I believe that, from a teaching perspective, this is a great opportunity to insist on the differences between English pronouns and Japanese "pronouns". Context is a very strong thing in Japanese, almost everything can be omitted and context will do its work. English on the other hand is not: for example, every English clause must have a subject. When there isn't a useful one, we put an "it" there. This is very odd for japanese English learners.
So, what exactly is a pronoun? I am not a linguist, but I'll try: "a pronoun is a word that refers to some other noun that was mentioned before, or is about to be mentioned, or can be inferred by context". If this is not strictly correct, recall that beginners are being taught here so minor nitpicks can be postponed.
In Japanese, we don't use anything like the above definition of pronoun, context itself works already. But in English, we need a word. English sentences have structures much more "solid". Instead of simply omitting everything that can be inferred, as is done in Japanese, in English those things are replaced by pronouns.
So, if we wanted to ask
Who is the girl that I am pointing to right now?
In Japanese we can let context do its work by asking
誰?(dare?)
which is literally just "who?", while in English we need to follow the structural boilerplate which requires a verb and at least a pronoun:
Who is she?
and here "she" is the word that carries the context inside it.
Hopefully this will help clearing things up with the students that might be thinking that she and the girl are exactly the same thing.
The answers by The Photon and Gary Potnovcan explain it well, in my opinion, but I'd like to include and addendum focusing on the fact that you're teaching Japanese students.
English pronouns versus Japanese "pronouns"
Let me start quoting Wikipedia:
In linguistics, generativists and other structuralists suggest that the Japanese language does not have pronouns as such, since, unlike pronouns in most other languages that have them, these words are syntactically and morphologically identical to nouns.
So first of all, the confusion of the students is completely understandable because in Japanese the "pronouns" work exactly as nouns. The word the students were probably thinking of is 彼女 (kanojo), which is often translated as "she", but can simply mean "the woman" (excluding the speaker and the person being spoken to). In other words, 彼女 can literally be translated as "the girl" as well.
That said, I believe that, from a teaching perspective, this is a great opportunity to insist on the differences between English pronouns and Japanese "pronouns". Context is a very strong thing in Japanese, almost everything can be omitted and context will do its work. English on the other hand is not: for example, every English clause must have a subject. When there isn't a useful one, we put an "it" there. This is very odd for japanese English learners.
So, what exactly is a pronoun? I am not a linguist, but I'll try: "a pronoun is a word that refers to some other noun that was mentioned before, or is about to be mentioned, or can be inferred by context". If this is not strictly correct, recall that beginners are being taught here so minor nitpicks can be postponed.
In Japanese, we don't use anything like the above definition of pronoun, context itself works already. But in English, we need a word. English sentences have structures much more "solid". Instead of simply omitting everything that can be inferred, as is done in Japanese, in English those things are replaced by pronouns.
So, if we wanted to ask
Who is the girl that I am pointing to right now?
In Japanese we can let context do its work by asking
誰?(dare?)
which is literally just "who?", while in English we need to follow the structural boilerplate which requires a verb and at least a pronoun:
Who is she?
and here "she" is the word that carries the context inside it.
Hopefully this will help clearing things up with the students that might be thinking that she and the girl are exactly the same thing.
answered yesterday
Pedro APedro A
342211
342211
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Well, both she and the girl probably are the same (かのじょ) :o)
– Will Crawford
yesterday
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
Note that in formal English, you can use "she" in all cases in which you'd use "the girl" – at least, in my experience.
– wizzwizz4
5 hours ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
@wizzwizz4: You can say "That's the girl I saw yesterday", but I don't think you can say *"That's she I saw yesterday."
– sumelic
1 hour ago
add a comment |
UPDATE
The solution is the one provided by the OP
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
If you want to know why using "she" in place of "the girl" is mistaken, see @Pedro A and @Gary Botnovcan's answers. But if someone is interested to see how "she" can fit into a grammatical sentence, see my answer below.
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
You can use “she” but the meaning will be different.
Who is he fighting? (correct and most common in speech)
Whom is he fighting? (formal)
Who is the person he is fighting against?Who is she talking to?
To whom is she talking?
Who is the person (or people) she is talking to?Who are they going to compete with?
With whom are they going to compete?
Who is the person (or people) they are going to compete with?Who is she playing the piano? (odd sounding)
To fix this question you need a preposition.a) Who is she playing the piano with?
b) With whom is she playing the piano? (very formal and rarely heard in speech)
c) Who is she playing the piano to?
d) To whom is she playing the piano?
e) Who is she playing for?
f) For whom is she playing the piano?
Sentences b), d) and f) are a very formal way of asking a question and rarely heard or used in speech today but for some prescriptivists, the pronoun whom, which refers to the object of a preposition, is considered to be the only grammatically correct choice. Well, I'm sorry, they are sadly mistaken.
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
UPDATE
The solution is the one provided by the OP
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
If you want to know why using "she" in place of "the girl" is mistaken, see @Pedro A and @Gary Botnovcan's answers. But if someone is interested to see how "she" can fit into a grammatical sentence, see my answer below.
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
You can use “she” but the meaning will be different.
Who is he fighting? (correct and most common in speech)
Whom is he fighting? (formal)
Who is the person he is fighting against?Who is she talking to?
To whom is she talking?
Who is the person (or people) she is talking to?Who are they going to compete with?
With whom are they going to compete?
Who is the person (or people) they are going to compete with?Who is she playing the piano? (odd sounding)
To fix this question you need a preposition.a) Who is she playing the piano with?
b) With whom is she playing the piano? (very formal and rarely heard in speech)
c) Who is she playing the piano to?
d) To whom is she playing the piano?
e) Who is she playing for?
f) For whom is she playing the piano?
Sentences b), d) and f) are a very formal way of asking a question and rarely heard or used in speech today but for some prescriptivists, the pronoun whom, which refers to the object of a preposition, is considered to be the only grammatically correct choice. Well, I'm sorry, they are sadly mistaken.
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
UPDATE
The solution is the one provided by the OP
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
If you want to know why using "she" in place of "the girl" is mistaken, see @Pedro A and @Gary Botnovcan's answers. But if someone is interested to see how "she" can fit into a grammatical sentence, see my answer below.
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
You can use “she” but the meaning will be different.
Who is he fighting? (correct and most common in speech)
Whom is he fighting? (formal)
Who is the person he is fighting against?Who is she talking to?
To whom is she talking?
Who is the person (or people) she is talking to?Who are they going to compete with?
With whom are they going to compete?
Who is the person (or people) they are going to compete with?Who is she playing the piano? (odd sounding)
To fix this question you need a preposition.a) Who is she playing the piano with?
b) With whom is she playing the piano? (very formal and rarely heard in speech)
c) Who is she playing the piano to?
d) To whom is she playing the piano?
e) Who is she playing for?
f) For whom is she playing the piano?
Sentences b), d) and f) are a very formal way of asking a question and rarely heard or used in speech today but for some prescriptivists, the pronoun whom, which refers to the object of a preposition, is considered to be the only grammatically correct choice. Well, I'm sorry, they are sadly mistaken.
UPDATE
The solution is the one provided by the OP
"Who is the girl playing the piano?"
If you want to know why using "she" in place of "the girl" is mistaken, see @Pedro A and @Gary Botnovcan's answers. But if someone is interested to see how "she" can fit into a grammatical sentence, see my answer below.
How would I explain, in a very simple way, why you cannot use she here?
You can use “she” but the meaning will be different.
Who is he fighting? (correct and most common in speech)
Whom is he fighting? (formal)
Who is the person he is fighting against?Who is she talking to?
To whom is she talking?
Who is the person (or people) she is talking to?Who are they going to compete with?
With whom are they going to compete?
Who is the person (or people) they are going to compete with?Who is she playing the piano? (odd sounding)
To fix this question you need a preposition.a) Who is she playing the piano with?
b) With whom is she playing the piano? (very formal and rarely heard in speech)
c) Who is she playing the piano to?
d) To whom is she playing the piano?
e) Who is she playing for?
f) For whom is she playing the piano?
Sentences b), d) and f) are a very formal way of asking a question and rarely heard or used in speech today but for some prescriptivists, the pronoun whom, which refers to the object of a preposition, is considered to be the only grammatically correct choice. Well, I'm sorry, they are sadly mistaken.
edited 16 hours ago
answered 2 days ago
Mari-Lou AMari-Lou A
13.6k73976
13.6k73976
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
2
2
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
This seems the only accurate answer of the bunch. In the questionable sentence, by default "she" refers to the object, not the subject. It's not ambiguous at all -- it's just weird in the given context.
– Andrew
2 days ago
1
1
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
@Tim The OP already knows that the "correct" solution is "Who is the girl playing the piano?", so no point in me repeating that. My answer shows (hopefully) how the student's sentence (Who is she playing the piano?) could be made perfectly grammatical. I did, however, also warned that the meaning would change. I'm not saying the meanings are identical to the OP's.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
1
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
I would not suggest using "who" as object for explaining why OP's sentences work. "who" is subject (in some dialects also objects), "whom" is object, and this does not matter here at all.
– rexkogitans
2 days ago
1
1
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
And then there is sentence (e): Who is she playing the piano for? @Tim - No, there needn’t be two at the piano. “Who did Paul McCartney play guitar with?” (Answer: With John, George, and Ringo.)
– J.R.♦
2 days ago
5
5
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
@rexkogitans the vast majority of native speakers, British, Australians and Americans will choose to say "who"
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
I parse this as similar to:
Who does she think she is, playing the piano?
or
Who is she, to be playing the piano?
The original phrase suggests to me that the piano player is in some way out of place, and the emphasis is not just on the identity of the she
, but more on something less pleasant. Depending on the context of the phrase, it may be intended as discriminatory, or it may accidentally reflect a phrasing which has been used to discriminate in the past. Obviously in the context asked it is accidental, but that doesn't capture potential confusion if this sort of phrase is used in conversation.
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
add a comment |
I parse this as similar to:
Who does she think she is, playing the piano?
or
Who is she, to be playing the piano?
The original phrase suggests to me that the piano player is in some way out of place, and the emphasis is not just on the identity of the she
, but more on something less pleasant. Depending on the context of the phrase, it may be intended as discriminatory, or it may accidentally reflect a phrasing which has been used to discriminate in the past. Obviously in the context asked it is accidental, but that doesn't capture potential confusion if this sort of phrase is used in conversation.
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
add a comment |
I parse this as similar to:
Who does she think she is, playing the piano?
or
Who is she, to be playing the piano?
The original phrase suggests to me that the piano player is in some way out of place, and the emphasis is not just on the identity of the she
, but more on something less pleasant. Depending on the context of the phrase, it may be intended as discriminatory, or it may accidentally reflect a phrasing which has been used to discriminate in the past. Obviously in the context asked it is accidental, but that doesn't capture potential confusion if this sort of phrase is used in conversation.
I parse this as similar to:
Who does she think she is, playing the piano?
or
Who is she, to be playing the piano?
The original phrase suggests to me that the piano player is in some way out of place, and the emphasis is not just on the identity of the she
, but more on something less pleasant. Depending on the context of the phrase, it may be intended as discriminatory, or it may accidentally reflect a phrasing which has been used to discriminate in the past. Obviously in the context asked it is accidental, but that doesn't capture potential confusion if this sort of phrase is used in conversation.
edited yesterday
answered 2 days ago
Sean HoulihaneSean Houlihane
36919
36919
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
add a comment |
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
That's how I read the original sentence, too - with an air of incredulity. +1, none of the other answers have addressed that subtle context.
– Nuclear Wang
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
"Depending on the context of the quote..." We know the context: it is a statement by someone who is still learning English, so we shouldn't read subtle implications into it. Those would be accidental. All Hojo is asking for in this question is an easily understood explanation for why one of his quoted sentences is OK, and the other one isn't.
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
My explanation is simple - there is a risk of people drawing inferences which are not intended when this construction is used by accident. This is why it should not be used even if it feels kind of OK to a non-native speaker. We already have answers which imply the phrase might be OK to use, and I think these don't tell the whole story.
– Sean Houlihane
2 days ago
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
This highlights the difference between "Who's she?" and "Who is she?". The sentence in the OP sounds like the latter. The former might be complimentary.
– Aaron F
yesterday
add a comment |
When you are asking about identity, it is a good idea to give the category of person,
- student
- teacher
- man, woman, child
- person
- your friend, their friend etc.
Who is she? [she is not identified at all]. She is my friend and a nice person.
Who is your friend playing the piano?
Who is that person playing the piano?
Who is that playing the piano? [that=that person]
That's the easiest answer I can come up with.
"Who is" introduces a question. It may be followed by:
- a noun: Who is John? Who is that man? Who is the winner?
- an adjective: Who is late?
- a verb: Who is coming to the party. [John is coming to the party.] Who plays the piano?
The pronoun "who" is a subject pronoun in the question "who is [plus verb or noun]", ergo, saying she is ungrammatical. You can't have "who" as an interrogative pronoun and she as a subject pronoun together.
Please note:
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
In the interrogative form, you do not use a pronoun when the identity is unknown.
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
versus- Who is Mary? She is a pianist.
- Who is she? She is Mary.
In the interrogative form, there is no **she (pronoun) because the pronoun here, the subject pronoun is "who".** Therefore, "Who is she playing the piano?" would be providing two subject pronouns.
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
When you are asking about identity, it is a good idea to give the category of person,
- student
- teacher
- man, woman, child
- person
- your friend, their friend etc.
Who is she? [she is not identified at all]. She is my friend and a nice person.
Who is your friend playing the piano?
Who is that person playing the piano?
Who is that playing the piano? [that=that person]
That's the easiest answer I can come up with.
"Who is" introduces a question. It may be followed by:
- a noun: Who is John? Who is that man? Who is the winner?
- an adjective: Who is late?
- a verb: Who is coming to the party. [John is coming to the party.] Who plays the piano?
The pronoun "who" is a subject pronoun in the question "who is [plus verb or noun]", ergo, saying she is ungrammatical. You can't have "who" as an interrogative pronoun and she as a subject pronoun together.
Please note:
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
In the interrogative form, you do not use a pronoun when the identity is unknown.
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
versus- Who is Mary? She is a pianist.
- Who is she? She is Mary.
In the interrogative form, there is no **she (pronoun) because the pronoun here, the subject pronoun is "who".** Therefore, "Who is she playing the piano?" would be providing two subject pronouns.
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
When you are asking about identity, it is a good idea to give the category of person,
- student
- teacher
- man, woman, child
- person
- your friend, their friend etc.
Who is she? [she is not identified at all]. She is my friend and a nice person.
Who is your friend playing the piano?
Who is that person playing the piano?
Who is that playing the piano? [that=that person]
That's the easiest answer I can come up with.
"Who is" introduces a question. It may be followed by:
- a noun: Who is John? Who is that man? Who is the winner?
- an adjective: Who is late?
- a verb: Who is coming to the party. [John is coming to the party.] Who plays the piano?
The pronoun "who" is a subject pronoun in the question "who is [plus verb or noun]", ergo, saying she is ungrammatical. You can't have "who" as an interrogative pronoun and she as a subject pronoun together.
Please note:
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
In the interrogative form, you do not use a pronoun when the identity is unknown.
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
versus- Who is Mary? She is a pianist.
- Who is she? She is Mary.
In the interrogative form, there is no **she (pronoun) because the pronoun here, the subject pronoun is "who".** Therefore, "Who is she playing the piano?" would be providing two subject pronouns.
When you are asking about identity, it is a good idea to give the category of person,
- student
- teacher
- man, woman, child
- person
- your friend, their friend etc.
Who is she? [she is not identified at all]. She is my friend and a nice person.
Who is your friend playing the piano?
Who is that person playing the piano?
Who is that playing the piano? [that=that person]
That's the easiest answer I can come up with.
"Who is" introduces a question. It may be followed by:
- a noun: Who is John? Who is that man? Who is the winner?
- an adjective: Who is late?
- a verb: Who is coming to the party. [John is coming to the party.] Who plays the piano?
The pronoun "who" is a subject pronoun in the question "who is [plus verb or noun]", ergo, saying she is ungrammatical. You can't have "who" as an interrogative pronoun and she as a subject pronoun together.
Please note:
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
In the interrogative form, you do not use a pronoun when the identity is unknown.
Who is playing the piano? Mary is playing the piano.
versus- Who is Mary? She is a pianist.
- Who is she? She is Mary.
In the interrogative form, there is no **she (pronoun) because the pronoun here, the subject pronoun is "who".** Therefore, "Who is she playing the piano?" would be providing two subject pronouns.
edited 2 days ago
answered Jan 8 at 1:36
LambieLambie
14.7k1331
14.7k1331
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
Yeah, I can't even come up with an answer that good. Still, I think there's one "out there".
– Lorel C.
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
@LorelC. I updated it after an overnight think.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I don't know if this will help your students, but here goes. From the formal linguistics perspective, the intended question is constructed by starting with
play piano
Then you attach the interrogative pronoun 'who' as the subject
who play piano
So there's no place for another subject pronoun.
When you make it present tense and imperfective aspect, the verb structure becomes
be who playing piano
The subject 'who' raises to subject position and triggers agreement with 'be' to form
who is playing piano
It's possible that your students are misunderstanding 'who' as a complementizer instead of a pronoun. So in their incorrect sentence 'who is she playing the piano' the 'who' might be intended to correspond to 'whether' in
I wonder whether she is playing the piano
Theoretically, there's a wh-complementizer at the very top of the correct question structure, but it has no spoken content in English. It's similar to 'that' that can be left out here:
I think that she is playing the piano
I think she is playing the piano
Another possibility is that the students are attempting to form
Who is she that is playing the piano
and are trying to use a null complementizer instead of 'that' which isn't allowed in English here. As in, they are forming a phrase parallel to
I like the girl that is playing the piano (but not some other girl)
which you can rephrase without the 'that is'
I like the girl playing the piano (but not some other girl)
The students may also be simply misunderstanding the prompt: Are they supposed to ask a question about the girl's identity, or what she's doing?
Incidentally, questions in English are especially weird when they involve the subject, so I'm not surprised to see ESL students struggling with them. Among other weirdness, they don't trigger do-support:
*Who does be playing the piano
New contributor
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I don't know if this will help your students, but here goes. From the formal linguistics perspective, the intended question is constructed by starting with
play piano
Then you attach the interrogative pronoun 'who' as the subject
who play piano
So there's no place for another subject pronoun.
When you make it present tense and imperfective aspect, the verb structure becomes
be who playing piano
The subject 'who' raises to subject position and triggers agreement with 'be' to form
who is playing piano
It's possible that your students are misunderstanding 'who' as a complementizer instead of a pronoun. So in their incorrect sentence 'who is she playing the piano' the 'who' might be intended to correspond to 'whether' in
I wonder whether she is playing the piano
Theoretically, there's a wh-complementizer at the very top of the correct question structure, but it has no spoken content in English. It's similar to 'that' that can be left out here:
I think that she is playing the piano
I think she is playing the piano
Another possibility is that the students are attempting to form
Who is she that is playing the piano
and are trying to use a null complementizer instead of 'that' which isn't allowed in English here. As in, they are forming a phrase parallel to
I like the girl that is playing the piano (but not some other girl)
which you can rephrase without the 'that is'
I like the girl playing the piano (but not some other girl)
The students may also be simply misunderstanding the prompt: Are they supposed to ask a question about the girl's identity, or what she's doing?
Incidentally, questions in English are especially weird when they involve the subject, so I'm not surprised to see ESL students struggling with them. Among other weirdness, they don't trigger do-support:
*Who does be playing the piano
New contributor
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I don't know if this will help your students, but here goes. From the formal linguistics perspective, the intended question is constructed by starting with
play piano
Then you attach the interrogative pronoun 'who' as the subject
who play piano
So there's no place for another subject pronoun.
When you make it present tense and imperfective aspect, the verb structure becomes
be who playing piano
The subject 'who' raises to subject position and triggers agreement with 'be' to form
who is playing piano
It's possible that your students are misunderstanding 'who' as a complementizer instead of a pronoun. So in their incorrect sentence 'who is she playing the piano' the 'who' might be intended to correspond to 'whether' in
I wonder whether she is playing the piano
Theoretically, there's a wh-complementizer at the very top of the correct question structure, but it has no spoken content in English. It's similar to 'that' that can be left out here:
I think that she is playing the piano
I think she is playing the piano
Another possibility is that the students are attempting to form
Who is she that is playing the piano
and are trying to use a null complementizer instead of 'that' which isn't allowed in English here. As in, they are forming a phrase parallel to
I like the girl that is playing the piano (but not some other girl)
which you can rephrase without the 'that is'
I like the girl playing the piano (but not some other girl)
The students may also be simply misunderstanding the prompt: Are they supposed to ask a question about the girl's identity, or what she's doing?
Incidentally, questions in English are especially weird when they involve the subject, so I'm not surprised to see ESL students struggling with them. Among other weirdness, they don't trigger do-support:
*Who does be playing the piano
New contributor
I don't know if this will help your students, but here goes. From the formal linguistics perspective, the intended question is constructed by starting with
play piano
Then you attach the interrogative pronoun 'who' as the subject
who play piano
So there's no place for another subject pronoun.
When you make it present tense and imperfective aspect, the verb structure becomes
be who playing piano
The subject 'who' raises to subject position and triggers agreement with 'be' to form
who is playing piano
It's possible that your students are misunderstanding 'who' as a complementizer instead of a pronoun. So in their incorrect sentence 'who is she playing the piano' the 'who' might be intended to correspond to 'whether' in
I wonder whether she is playing the piano
Theoretically, there's a wh-complementizer at the very top of the correct question structure, but it has no spoken content in English. It's similar to 'that' that can be left out here:
I think that she is playing the piano
I think she is playing the piano
Another possibility is that the students are attempting to form
Who is she that is playing the piano
and are trying to use a null complementizer instead of 'that' which isn't allowed in English here. As in, they are forming a phrase parallel to
I like the girl that is playing the piano (but not some other girl)
which you can rephrase without the 'that is'
I like the girl playing the piano (but not some other girl)
The students may also be simply misunderstanding the prompt: Are they supposed to ask a question about the girl's identity, or what she's doing?
Incidentally, questions in English are especially weird when they involve the subject, so I'm not surprised to see ESL students struggling with them. Among other weirdness, they don't trigger do-support:
*Who does be playing the piano
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
garrett mitchenergarrett mitchener
212
212
New contributor
New contributor
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
Actually, I think you need to start with a question form.
– Lambie
2 days ago
add a comment |
I think it's because a participle (such as playing the piano) can't modify a personal pronoun (such as she).
These are all correct:
- Who are you looking at? The girl playing the piano.
- Who is the girl playing the piano?
- The girl playing the piano is Sarah.
These are all incorrect:
- Who are you looking at? Her playing the piano.
- Who is she playing the piano?
- She playing the piano is Sarah.
add a comment |
I think it's because a participle (such as playing the piano) can't modify a personal pronoun (such as she).
These are all correct:
- Who are you looking at? The girl playing the piano.
- Who is the girl playing the piano?
- The girl playing the piano is Sarah.
These are all incorrect:
- Who are you looking at? Her playing the piano.
- Who is she playing the piano?
- She playing the piano is Sarah.
add a comment |
I think it's because a participle (such as playing the piano) can't modify a personal pronoun (such as she).
These are all correct:
- Who are you looking at? The girl playing the piano.
- Who is the girl playing the piano?
- The girl playing the piano is Sarah.
These are all incorrect:
- Who are you looking at? Her playing the piano.
- Who is she playing the piano?
- She playing the piano is Sarah.
I think it's because a participle (such as playing the piano) can't modify a personal pronoun (such as she).
These are all correct:
- Who are you looking at? The girl playing the piano.
- Who is the girl playing the piano?
- The girl playing the piano is Sarah.
These are all incorrect:
- Who are you looking at? Her playing the piano.
- Who is she playing the piano?
- She playing the piano is Sarah.
answered 2 days ago
Tanner SwettTanner Swett
1,331610
1,331610
add a comment |
add a comment |
My two cents:
I've learned that there is a little difference left between using 'who,' and 'whom.' The easiest way (as a non-native speaker), I can say the students should use the girl instead of the pronoun to avoid ambiguity.
We often say,
She is buying me a doll.
Here, we have a subject, indirect object, and direct object.
If you remove the indirect object, the question could be formed as:
Who is she buying a doll?
There is me in the sentence and thus, the answer is me.
But, in your question, it becomes ambiguous.
Who is she playing the piano?
The answer could be *'she's playing her brother the piano.'*
Replacing the pronoun with a noun (girl) ends all the ambiguities. There, clearly, the subject is playing the piano...and of course for no one!
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
|
show 12 more comments
My two cents:
I've learned that there is a little difference left between using 'who,' and 'whom.' The easiest way (as a non-native speaker), I can say the students should use the girl instead of the pronoun to avoid ambiguity.
We often say,
She is buying me a doll.
Here, we have a subject, indirect object, and direct object.
If you remove the indirect object, the question could be formed as:
Who is she buying a doll?
There is me in the sentence and thus, the answer is me.
But, in your question, it becomes ambiguous.
Who is she playing the piano?
The answer could be *'she's playing her brother the piano.'*
Replacing the pronoun with a noun (girl) ends all the ambiguities. There, clearly, the subject is playing the piano...and of course for no one!
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
|
show 12 more comments
My two cents:
I've learned that there is a little difference left between using 'who,' and 'whom.' The easiest way (as a non-native speaker), I can say the students should use the girl instead of the pronoun to avoid ambiguity.
We often say,
She is buying me a doll.
Here, we have a subject, indirect object, and direct object.
If you remove the indirect object, the question could be formed as:
Who is she buying a doll?
There is me in the sentence and thus, the answer is me.
But, in your question, it becomes ambiguous.
Who is she playing the piano?
The answer could be *'she's playing her brother the piano.'*
Replacing the pronoun with a noun (girl) ends all the ambiguities. There, clearly, the subject is playing the piano...and of course for no one!
My two cents:
I've learned that there is a little difference left between using 'who,' and 'whom.' The easiest way (as a non-native speaker), I can say the students should use the girl instead of the pronoun to avoid ambiguity.
We often say,
She is buying me a doll.
Here, we have a subject, indirect object, and direct object.
If you remove the indirect object, the question could be formed as:
Who is she buying a doll?
There is me in the sentence and thus, the answer is me.
But, in your question, it becomes ambiguous.
Who is she playing the piano?
The answer could be *'she's playing her brother the piano.'*
Replacing the pronoun with a noun (girl) ends all the ambiguities. There, clearly, the subject is playing the piano...and of course for no one!
answered Jan 8 at 2:57
Maulik V♦Maulik V
51.1k63212391
51.1k63212391
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
|
show 12 more comments
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
2
2
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
If one speaks the kind of English that still cares about the difference between who and whom, that should be, "Whom is she buying a doll?" (And I would probably not say even that; I'd say, "For whom is she buying a doll?") Likewise, I would never say, "She's playing her brother the piano," unless I were willing to say her brother is a piano.
– David K
2 days ago
3
3
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
@DavidK I did not put a comma and that saved her brother from being the piano. Hope you get it ;)
– Maulik V♦
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
+1, I'd add that the property you are describing, and the reason this sentence is wrong is because the it has the structure of using a ditransitive verb, but there is no transitive meaning. The fact that "play" can be a ditransitive verb (or have that meaning) makes the confusion escalate. It is still possible to decipher the meaning behind the sentence, but it takes rational effort - and most grammar is designed to avoid those situations.
– Stian Yttervik
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
There's no me in that sentence, but there's an omitted for at the end, whom it is.
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
1
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
This is not about who/whom. It is about using the pronoun she in the sentence.
– Lambie
2 days ago
|
show 12 more comments
Hojo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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You've selected an incorrect answer (a good pointer is that another answer has more votes). Personal pronouns (I, you he, she it, we ...) are not like normal nouns. We cannot use determiners like all, some, many with them. We cannot (usually) put adjectives before them. We cannot freely use participle clauses to modify them (that is what is happening in your example). This has nothing to do with commas. You are being fed false information by someone who is guessing the answer. Don't let your teacher friend give fake news to your student.
– Araucaria
yesterday
3
I would caution that in an exercise like this, the proper criterion is not merely whether you can or cannot use a particular word. It is more useful at this level of instruction to teach the students to speak and write in ways that are in common use and promote good communication, and to avoid obscure constructions even if they are technically correct.
– David K
yesterday
@DavidK - Thank you :) I appreciate everyone`s responses (very much) but I was looking for a simple answer for that very reason, in the context of these students being English language learners in a foreign country. The students are Junior High School (8th) grade students who are learning English to pass their High School exams. The answers for the exams are quite specific. I want to help but, it is an education itself, learning how English is taught in different countries...how they approach it, translate it, and structure it against their own.
– Hojo
4 hours ago
@DavidK - You are absolutely correct about the type of instruction the teachers are looking for. It has been very enlightening though to this teacher, the types of responses given. Thank you for your observation.
– Hojo
4 hours ago