What is the correct way to pluralize an acronym?
For example, if I wanted to write the equivalent of
There are many automated teller machines in this city.
Would it be
There are many ATMs in this city.
or
There are many ATM's in this city.
(could get confused with possessive form or contraction).
or just
There are many ATM in this city.
(assuming the final s is included in Machines represented by M).
Maybe something else?
nouns grammatical-number orthography apostrophe acronyms
|
show 2 more comments
For example, if I wanted to write the equivalent of
There are many automated teller machines in this city.
Would it be
There are many ATMs in this city.
or
There are many ATM's in this city.
(could get confused with possessive form or contraction).
or just
There are many ATM in this city.
(assuming the final s is included in Machines represented by M).
Maybe something else?
nouns grammatical-number orthography apostrophe acronyms
33
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
37
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
19
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
6
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31
|
show 2 more comments
For example, if I wanted to write the equivalent of
There are many automated teller machines in this city.
Would it be
There are many ATMs in this city.
or
There are many ATM's in this city.
(could get confused with possessive form or contraction).
or just
There are many ATM in this city.
(assuming the final s is included in Machines represented by M).
Maybe something else?
nouns grammatical-number orthography apostrophe acronyms
For example, if I wanted to write the equivalent of
There are many automated teller machines in this city.
Would it be
There are many ATMs in this city.
or
There are many ATM's in this city.
(could get confused with possessive form or contraction).
or just
There are many ATM in this city.
(assuming the final s is included in Machines represented by M).
Maybe something else?
nouns grammatical-number orthography apostrophe acronyms
nouns grammatical-number orthography apostrophe acronyms
edited Mar 9 '17 at 20:56
sumelic
46.6k8110214
46.6k8110214
asked Aug 12 '10 at 20:43
JohnFxJohnFx
4,29683740
4,29683740
33
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
37
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
19
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
6
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31
|
show 2 more comments
33
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
37
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
19
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
6
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31
33
33
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
37
37
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
19
19
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
12
12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
6
6
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31
|
show 2 more comments
10 Answers
10
active
oldest
votes
The Chicago Manual of Style has an interesting way to address this: They omit the apostrophe, unless there are periods in the abbreviation. So this would give you ATMs
, or alternately A.T.M.'s
. (A.T.M.s
looks weird.) chicagomanualofstyle.org, "Plurals"
This page indicates that acronyms ending in the letter "S" get an apostrophe, something I've seen before, but can't find in a general reference. So one would write ATMs
and SOS's
.
This page on the North Carolina State University website references AP's rule as being to always use an apostrophe.
The 2009 AP Stylebook's "plurals" entry has no section on acronyms, but mentions "VIPs", I can't find anything addressing how to specifically pluralize acronyms. (The "abbreviations and acronyms" section is also of no help.)
Personally, I omit using apostrophes unless I can't avoid it. I do use them when talking about single letters or where it would avoid confusion. (For example, SOs for "Significant Others" looks like an incorrectly capitalized SOS.)
To paraphrase Carol Fisher Saller, the clearer usage is the correct one.
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
|
show 7 more comments
The first is the correct usage, in my view. The third may be quite acceptable however, since the M in ATM could equally stand for 'machine' or 'machines', though I think pluralising the actual acronym is much clearer in speech.
In any case, never use an apostrophe. 's should only be appended to a word to create the posessive form ("of ..."), never for plurals.
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
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show 2 more comments
I agree with Wikipedia, wordreference and CMOS - acronyms and initialisms are "regular" nouns; plurals are formed by adding "s".
Checking Google Books for actual usage in a relatively "contentious" case, I searched for:
"OSs" unix windows linux 3120 written instances
"OSes" unix windows linux 1060 instances
"OS's" unix windows linux 520 instances
"Simpler" cases such as CDs vs CD's are even more decisive (over 10:1 in favour of the former).
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
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show 5 more comments
Oxford Dictionary [e.g. SOS, noun (plural SOSs)] and The Economist [e.g. Are ATMs stealing jobs?] both go for the first option.
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
add a comment |
Since this is a question about acronyms, and the Federal Government's bureaucracy is notorious for using acronyms, I decided to look up the answer in the United States Government Printing Office (GPO) Style Manual (2000).
Rule 8.11 of the GPO Style Manual states: "While an apostrophe is used to indicate possession and contractions, it is not generally necessary to use an apostrophe to show the plural form of most acronyms, initialisms, or abbreviations, except where clarity and sense demand such inclusion." As examples, the rule suggests:
OKs
ABCs
RIFs
YWCAs
The rule does not show an exception for an acronym, but does refer to one case I found interesting -- the "Oakland A's" needs an apostrophe because otherwise it would be the "Oakland As." From that I would assume that if the addition of an s to an acronym would appear to give the acronym a different meaning, then an apostrophe would be in order. But since acronyms are capitalized letters, the addition of a small s should not make a difference, except where (for some reason) one is writing in a format that is all capitals -- such as the format that military and diplomatic messages were sent until very recently.
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
add a comment |
I vote for the first, "ATMs". The second is just wrong (apostrophe is not used for plurals, ever). This is because ATM is a defined term for an AT machine, and using it as plural "automatic teller machines" would be a redefinition of a common abbreviation, which one should not be trigger-happy about.
The third, however, does not solve the real need to say there's more than one. It is though clear from the sentence, but might not be so in a general case.
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
add a comment |
Using 's
to pluralize something is called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".
I think the battle against the Greengrocer's apostrophe is one we're bound to lose - even if grammar of the general population improved, we'd still occasionally be facing nouns which have a mixture of upper and lower case, for which adding an s
by itself at the end would be confusing.
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
add a comment |
Either of the first two is acceptable, but I would recommend the first as the apostrophe isn't needed to convey your meaning, and as such is not required.
The third is just wrong since it creates an awkward sentence that is hard to say and discomforting to read. Most acronyms, including ATM, have a well-defined and commonly accepted meaning, which very rarely includes the pluralization. Avoid the ambiguity and include the s.
add a comment |
Just a small addition to the subject and one that is probably as much related to typography as it is to grammar...
There is an issue with all-caps. For example, if we were:
Talking about ATMs. Then the apostrophe is out.
But, if we were:
TALKING ABOUT ATM'S. Then the case for using one is much stronger as it serves to differentiate Automated Teller Machine from, say, Automated Teller Machine Software
Of course, that doesn't address the question of why you'd be using all-caps in the first place...
add a comment |
Using the apostrophe to indicate plurals of numbers, letters and abbreviations is standard, but it is not as common as s without the apostrophe.
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
add a comment |
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The Chicago Manual of Style has an interesting way to address this: They omit the apostrophe, unless there are periods in the abbreviation. So this would give you ATMs
, or alternately A.T.M.'s
. (A.T.M.s
looks weird.) chicagomanualofstyle.org, "Plurals"
This page indicates that acronyms ending in the letter "S" get an apostrophe, something I've seen before, but can't find in a general reference. So one would write ATMs
and SOS's
.
This page on the North Carolina State University website references AP's rule as being to always use an apostrophe.
The 2009 AP Stylebook's "plurals" entry has no section on acronyms, but mentions "VIPs", I can't find anything addressing how to specifically pluralize acronyms. (The "abbreviations and acronyms" section is also of no help.)
Personally, I omit using apostrophes unless I can't avoid it. I do use them when talking about single letters or where it would avoid confusion. (For example, SOs for "Significant Others" looks like an incorrectly capitalized SOS.)
To paraphrase Carol Fisher Saller, the clearer usage is the correct one.
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
|
show 7 more comments
The Chicago Manual of Style has an interesting way to address this: They omit the apostrophe, unless there are periods in the abbreviation. So this would give you ATMs
, or alternately A.T.M.'s
. (A.T.M.s
looks weird.) chicagomanualofstyle.org, "Plurals"
This page indicates that acronyms ending in the letter "S" get an apostrophe, something I've seen before, but can't find in a general reference. So one would write ATMs
and SOS's
.
This page on the North Carolina State University website references AP's rule as being to always use an apostrophe.
The 2009 AP Stylebook's "plurals" entry has no section on acronyms, but mentions "VIPs", I can't find anything addressing how to specifically pluralize acronyms. (The "abbreviations and acronyms" section is also of no help.)
Personally, I omit using apostrophes unless I can't avoid it. I do use them when talking about single letters or where it would avoid confusion. (For example, SOs for "Significant Others" looks like an incorrectly capitalized SOS.)
To paraphrase Carol Fisher Saller, the clearer usage is the correct one.
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
|
show 7 more comments
The Chicago Manual of Style has an interesting way to address this: They omit the apostrophe, unless there are periods in the abbreviation. So this would give you ATMs
, or alternately A.T.M.'s
. (A.T.M.s
looks weird.) chicagomanualofstyle.org, "Plurals"
This page indicates that acronyms ending in the letter "S" get an apostrophe, something I've seen before, but can't find in a general reference. So one would write ATMs
and SOS's
.
This page on the North Carolina State University website references AP's rule as being to always use an apostrophe.
The 2009 AP Stylebook's "plurals" entry has no section on acronyms, but mentions "VIPs", I can't find anything addressing how to specifically pluralize acronyms. (The "abbreviations and acronyms" section is also of no help.)
Personally, I omit using apostrophes unless I can't avoid it. I do use them when talking about single letters or where it would avoid confusion. (For example, SOs for "Significant Others" looks like an incorrectly capitalized SOS.)
To paraphrase Carol Fisher Saller, the clearer usage is the correct one.
The Chicago Manual of Style has an interesting way to address this: They omit the apostrophe, unless there are periods in the abbreviation. So this would give you ATMs
, or alternately A.T.M.'s
. (A.T.M.s
looks weird.) chicagomanualofstyle.org, "Plurals"
This page indicates that acronyms ending in the letter "S" get an apostrophe, something I've seen before, but can't find in a general reference. So one would write ATMs
and SOS's
.
This page on the North Carolina State University website references AP's rule as being to always use an apostrophe.
The 2009 AP Stylebook's "plurals" entry has no section on acronyms, but mentions "VIPs", I can't find anything addressing how to specifically pluralize acronyms. (The "abbreviations and acronyms" section is also of no help.)
Personally, I omit using apostrophes unless I can't avoid it. I do use them when talking about single letters or where it would avoid confusion. (For example, SOs for "Significant Others" looks like an incorrectly capitalized SOS.)
To paraphrase Carol Fisher Saller, the clearer usage is the correct one.
edited Feb 24 '12 at 4:16
answered Aug 14 '10 at 23:55
Neil FeinNeil Fein
4,31022135
4,31022135
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
|
show 7 more comments
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
26
26
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
'VIPs' is a strange one. It could be argued that the expanded acronym, when pluralized, should be 'Very Important People' rather than 'Very Important Persons'. Using this argument, 'VIP' could be used as a singular or plural noun. "The VIP has arrived." "The VIP have arrived." I'm not sure anyone else would agree with my logic, though.
– oosterwal
Mar 7 '11 at 18:24
17
17
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
Acronyms ending in the letter “S” take -es in the plural: “Your SOSes are getting through to no one.”
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 1:38
19
19
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
The crux of the problem is that SOS’s cannot serve as both a genitive singular and a nominative plural, because you then run into a brick wall trying to make a genitive plural: ****SOS’s’s*** or some such similar silliness simply doesn’t work. “These SOSes are new, this SOS’s origin, these SOSes’ origins,” etc. are all clear and unambiguous. You can’t do that with SOS’s trying to do both jobs and getting klutzed up when it gets promoted to a genitive plural.
– tchrist♦
Apr 1 '12 at 3:03
3
3
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
There's an easy solution: Don't do that. It's best to rephrase to avoid silly constructions like "SOS's's" that nobody would ever actually write.
– Neil Fein
Apr 1 '12 at 4:23
4
4
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
@tchrist SOS, however, is neither an acronym nor an abbreviation, but a morse prosign.
– Ahlqvist
Apr 3 '14 at 7:44
|
show 7 more comments
The first is the correct usage, in my view. The third may be quite acceptable however, since the M in ATM could equally stand for 'machine' or 'machines', though I think pluralising the actual acronym is much clearer in speech.
In any case, never use an apostrophe. 's should only be appended to a word to create the posessive form ("of ..."), never for plurals.
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
|
show 2 more comments
The first is the correct usage, in my view. The third may be quite acceptable however, since the M in ATM could equally stand for 'machine' or 'machines', though I think pluralising the actual acronym is much clearer in speech.
In any case, never use an apostrophe. 's should only be appended to a word to create the posessive form ("of ..."), never for plurals.
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
|
show 2 more comments
The first is the correct usage, in my view. The third may be quite acceptable however, since the M in ATM could equally stand for 'machine' or 'machines', though I think pluralising the actual acronym is much clearer in speech.
In any case, never use an apostrophe. 's should only be appended to a word to create the posessive form ("of ..."), never for plurals.
The first is the correct usage, in my view. The third may be quite acceptable however, since the M in ATM could equally stand for 'machine' or 'machines', though I think pluralising the actual acronym is much clearer in speech.
In any case, never use an apostrophe. 's should only be appended to a word to create the posessive form ("of ..."), never for plurals.
answered Aug 12 '10 at 21:02
NoldorinNoldorin
10.5k24559
10.5k24559
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
|
show 2 more comments
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
17
17
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
Unfortunately I think ’s is the standard way to pluralize single letters—“A’s, B’s, and C’s”.
– nohat♦
Aug 12 '10 at 21:27
3
3
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat: Possibly, though I'm not sure of that myself. Either way, letters aren't technically acronyms, so I think my answer is still safe.
– Noldorin
Aug 12 '10 at 21:29
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
@nohat idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:49
2
2
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
@JuanMendes: that's bad usage in my view. It's done often enough though.
– Noldorin
Mar 15 '14 at 18:42
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
I mean, it could otherwise get a little confusing. What if your sentence started with "As", for example? Would it be the word, "as", or the plural of the letter? The apostrophe here seems to be the best solution. Though I do agree they should be omitted in every other case.
– Drazen Bjelovuk
Dec 19 '14 at 3:22
|
show 2 more comments
I agree with Wikipedia, wordreference and CMOS - acronyms and initialisms are "regular" nouns; plurals are formed by adding "s".
Checking Google Books for actual usage in a relatively "contentious" case, I searched for:
"OSs" unix windows linux 3120 written instances
"OSes" unix windows linux 1060 instances
"OS's" unix windows linux 520 instances
"Simpler" cases such as CDs vs CD's are even more decisive (over 10:1 in favour of the former).
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
|
show 5 more comments
I agree with Wikipedia, wordreference and CMOS - acronyms and initialisms are "regular" nouns; plurals are formed by adding "s".
Checking Google Books for actual usage in a relatively "contentious" case, I searched for:
"OSs" unix windows linux 3120 written instances
"OSes" unix windows linux 1060 instances
"OS's" unix windows linux 520 instances
"Simpler" cases such as CDs vs CD's are even more decisive (over 10:1 in favour of the former).
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
|
show 5 more comments
I agree with Wikipedia, wordreference and CMOS - acronyms and initialisms are "regular" nouns; plurals are formed by adding "s".
Checking Google Books for actual usage in a relatively "contentious" case, I searched for:
"OSs" unix windows linux 3120 written instances
"OSes" unix windows linux 1060 instances
"OS's" unix windows linux 520 instances
"Simpler" cases such as CDs vs CD's are even more decisive (over 10:1 in favour of the former).
I agree with Wikipedia, wordreference and CMOS - acronyms and initialisms are "regular" nouns; plurals are formed by adding "s".
Checking Google Books for actual usage in a relatively "contentious" case, I searched for:
"OSs" unix windows linux 3120 written instances
"OSes" unix windows linux 1060 instances
"OS's" unix windows linux 520 instances
"Simpler" cases such as CDs vs CD's are even more decisive (over 10:1 in favour of the former).
edited Feb 24 '12 at 21:48
answered Feb 24 '12 at 1:06
FumbleFingersFumbleFingers
119k32243423
119k32243423
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
|
show 5 more comments
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
3
3
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
There is a problem with product names. For example, Nikon has models named (each in the singular) D3, D3s, D3x. Trying to make plurals and possessives and plural possessives of those is a real treat. How many D3s do you have? None, we only have a D3s, not a D3. How many D3ses do you have? How many D3xes do you have?
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:15
2
2
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
@tchrist: Yawn. I might have known you'd come up with a gotcha!. Nikon might also make a model D3es for all I know. Basically that's their problem. If we decide to endorse D3es's they'll probably release a special model with a name ending in apostrophe+"s".
– FumbleFingers
Feb 24 '12 at 1:27
7
7
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 5:29
2
2
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
@FumbleFingers: The issue is not only with GB. Every step of the process can choke on an apostrophe. Simply looking at the result set is not going to provide you with enough information to tell you whether it is accurate. As such, I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes.
– MrHen
Feb 24 '12 at 23:42
2
2
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
@FumbleFingers: I already told you why. The technology involved here has a long history of choking on apostrophes. I do not think anything particular about your searches or what they represent. My point is simply that I would be very skeptical of any searches that include apostrophes. You seem to have done what you consider due diligence; congratulations. I remain skeptical.
– MrHen
Feb 26 '12 at 1:36
|
show 5 more comments
Oxford Dictionary [e.g. SOS, noun (plural SOSs)] and The Economist [e.g. Are ATMs stealing jobs?] both go for the first option.
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
add a comment |
Oxford Dictionary [e.g. SOS, noun (plural SOSs)] and The Economist [e.g. Are ATMs stealing jobs?] both go for the first option.
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
add a comment |
Oxford Dictionary [e.g. SOS, noun (plural SOSs)] and The Economist [e.g. Are ATMs stealing jobs?] both go for the first option.
Oxford Dictionary [e.g. SOS, noun (plural SOSs)] and The Economist [e.g. Are ATMs stealing jobs?] both go for the first option.
edited Nov 20 '12 at 17:48
Cameron
6,53212442
6,53212442
answered Aug 12 '10 at 21:04
EvanEvan
7161812
7161812
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
add a comment |
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
7
7
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
[citation needed]
– Sridhar Ratnakumar
Aug 12 '10 at 21:05
add a comment |
Since this is a question about acronyms, and the Federal Government's bureaucracy is notorious for using acronyms, I decided to look up the answer in the United States Government Printing Office (GPO) Style Manual (2000).
Rule 8.11 of the GPO Style Manual states: "While an apostrophe is used to indicate possession and contractions, it is not generally necessary to use an apostrophe to show the plural form of most acronyms, initialisms, or abbreviations, except where clarity and sense demand such inclusion." As examples, the rule suggests:
OKs
ABCs
RIFs
YWCAs
The rule does not show an exception for an acronym, but does refer to one case I found interesting -- the "Oakland A's" needs an apostrophe because otherwise it would be the "Oakland As." From that I would assume that if the addition of an s to an acronym would appear to give the acronym a different meaning, then an apostrophe would be in order. But since acronyms are capitalized letters, the addition of a small s should not make a difference, except where (for some reason) one is writing in a format that is all capitals -- such as the format that military and diplomatic messages were sent until very recently.
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
add a comment |
Since this is a question about acronyms, and the Federal Government's bureaucracy is notorious for using acronyms, I decided to look up the answer in the United States Government Printing Office (GPO) Style Manual (2000).
Rule 8.11 of the GPO Style Manual states: "While an apostrophe is used to indicate possession and contractions, it is not generally necessary to use an apostrophe to show the plural form of most acronyms, initialisms, or abbreviations, except where clarity and sense demand such inclusion." As examples, the rule suggests:
OKs
ABCs
RIFs
YWCAs
The rule does not show an exception for an acronym, but does refer to one case I found interesting -- the "Oakland A's" needs an apostrophe because otherwise it would be the "Oakland As." From that I would assume that if the addition of an s to an acronym would appear to give the acronym a different meaning, then an apostrophe would be in order. But since acronyms are capitalized letters, the addition of a small s should not make a difference, except where (for some reason) one is writing in a format that is all capitals -- such as the format that military and diplomatic messages were sent until very recently.
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
add a comment |
Since this is a question about acronyms, and the Federal Government's bureaucracy is notorious for using acronyms, I decided to look up the answer in the United States Government Printing Office (GPO) Style Manual (2000).
Rule 8.11 of the GPO Style Manual states: "While an apostrophe is used to indicate possession and contractions, it is not generally necessary to use an apostrophe to show the plural form of most acronyms, initialisms, or abbreviations, except where clarity and sense demand such inclusion." As examples, the rule suggests:
OKs
ABCs
RIFs
YWCAs
The rule does not show an exception for an acronym, but does refer to one case I found interesting -- the "Oakland A's" needs an apostrophe because otherwise it would be the "Oakland As." From that I would assume that if the addition of an s to an acronym would appear to give the acronym a different meaning, then an apostrophe would be in order. But since acronyms are capitalized letters, the addition of a small s should not make a difference, except where (for some reason) one is writing in a format that is all capitals -- such as the format that military and diplomatic messages were sent until very recently.
Since this is a question about acronyms, and the Federal Government's bureaucracy is notorious for using acronyms, I decided to look up the answer in the United States Government Printing Office (GPO) Style Manual (2000).
Rule 8.11 of the GPO Style Manual states: "While an apostrophe is used to indicate possession and contractions, it is not generally necessary to use an apostrophe to show the plural form of most acronyms, initialisms, or abbreviations, except where clarity and sense demand such inclusion." As examples, the rule suggests:
OKs
ABCs
RIFs
YWCAs
The rule does not show an exception for an acronym, but does refer to one case I found interesting -- the "Oakland A's" needs an apostrophe because otherwise it would be the "Oakland As." From that I would assume that if the addition of an s to an acronym would appear to give the acronym a different meaning, then an apostrophe would be in order. But since acronyms are capitalized letters, the addition of a small s should not make a difference, except where (for some reason) one is writing in a format that is all capitals -- such as the format that military and diplomatic messages were sent until very recently.
answered Jan 30 '14 at 15:11
Bruce JamesBruce James
1,90762237
1,90762237
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
add a comment |
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
1
1
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
Single letters do seem to take apostrophes idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/…
– Juan Mendes
Mar 15 '14 at 8:51
add a comment |
I vote for the first, "ATMs". The second is just wrong (apostrophe is not used for plurals, ever). This is because ATM is a defined term for an AT machine, and using it as plural "automatic teller machines" would be a redefinition of a common abbreviation, which one should not be trigger-happy about.
The third, however, does not solve the real need to say there's more than one. It is though clear from the sentence, but might not be so in a general case.
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
add a comment |
I vote for the first, "ATMs". The second is just wrong (apostrophe is not used for plurals, ever). This is because ATM is a defined term for an AT machine, and using it as plural "automatic teller machines" would be a redefinition of a common abbreviation, which one should not be trigger-happy about.
The third, however, does not solve the real need to say there's more than one. It is though clear from the sentence, but might not be so in a general case.
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
add a comment |
I vote for the first, "ATMs". The second is just wrong (apostrophe is not used for plurals, ever). This is because ATM is a defined term for an AT machine, and using it as plural "automatic teller machines" would be a redefinition of a common abbreviation, which one should not be trigger-happy about.
The third, however, does not solve the real need to say there's more than one. It is though clear from the sentence, but might not be so in a general case.
I vote for the first, "ATMs". The second is just wrong (apostrophe is not used for plurals, ever). This is because ATM is a defined term for an AT machine, and using it as plural "automatic teller machines" would be a redefinition of a common abbreviation, which one should not be trigger-happy about.
The third, however, does not solve the real need to say there's more than one. It is though clear from the sentence, but might not be so in a general case.
edited Aug 14 '10 at 21:50
answered Aug 12 '10 at 20:55
Pavel RadzivilovskyPavel Radzivilovsky
1,90031417
1,90031417
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
add a comment |
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
11
11
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
Actually, an apostrophe is used for plurals in at least one special situation: single letters. As in mind your p’s and q’s. If you think about it, it has to work that way: you don’t dot your *is; you dot your i’s, and necessarily so.
– tchrist♦
Feb 24 '12 at 1:12
2
2
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
@tchrist: I would suggest that using apostrophes to separate out single letters should be interpreted as a manifestation of a more general rule: use apostrophes when one syllable contains elements which should be parsed differently (e.g. when one talks of having five i's, the letter before the apostrophe should be read as a discrete letter, while the letter after should be pronounced as though it was part of a word). While this construct most commonly occurs when forming plurals of things which cannot be regarded as "nouns read in usual fashion", it's also usable in constructs like "DQ'ed".
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:45
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
If the normal pronunciation of "ATM" were "atom", reading the letters as text, then a pluralizing "s" would match the interpretation of the preceding characters, thus avoiding any need for a delimiter. But to my eye, if "ATM" is read as three discrete letters, "ATMs" would be four discrete letters, rather than three discrete letters plus an extra "zz" sound (which I would notate as ATM's). Note also, btw, that in the latter usage one could regard the apostrophe as eliding "achine" (without the apostrophe, the plural would be "automatic teller machine s", since initialisms elide word breaks).
– supercat
Oct 15 '12 at 23:51
3
3
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
@tchrist: Lynne Truss says that some dictionaries allow the addition of 's instead of a bare s for a few short words if the result without the apostrophe would be even messier. This gives rise to ex's and do's (a do being a colloquial term for a function or party). I'm not sure that and's, but's, and don't's work too well. I've read somewhere that words cited as words can be italicised and apostrophised: 'There are too many and's in this paragraph.'
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 20 '12 at 19:16
add a comment |
Using 's
to pluralize something is called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".
I think the battle against the Greengrocer's apostrophe is one we're bound to lose - even if grammar of the general population improved, we'd still occasionally be facing nouns which have a mixture of upper and lower case, for which adding an s
by itself at the end would be confusing.
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
add a comment |
Using 's
to pluralize something is called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".
I think the battle against the Greengrocer's apostrophe is one we're bound to lose - even if grammar of the general population improved, we'd still occasionally be facing nouns which have a mixture of upper and lower case, for which adding an s
by itself at the end would be confusing.
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
add a comment |
Using 's
to pluralize something is called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".
I think the battle against the Greengrocer's apostrophe is one we're bound to lose - even if grammar of the general population improved, we'd still occasionally be facing nouns which have a mixture of upper and lower case, for which adding an s
by itself at the end would be confusing.
Using 's
to pluralize something is called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".
I think the battle against the Greengrocer's apostrophe is one we're bound to lose - even if grammar of the general population improved, we'd still occasionally be facing nouns which have a mixture of upper and lower case, for which adding an s
by itself at the end would be confusing.
answered Sep 25 '10 at 3:14
Andrew GrimmAndrew Grimm
10.6k2284158
10.6k2284158
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
add a comment |
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
1
1
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
What about greengrocers whose name has an S at the end of the surname, like Ralphs, a la George A. Ralphs?
– Jared Updike
Aug 11 '11 at 18:26
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
@Jared - You pick a method and stick to it.
– Neil Fein
Feb 26 '12 at 21:59
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
Since most readers will recognize easily what is meant when a combination of characters that don't form a "normal word" is followed by an apostrophe and a suffix (typically 's'), why should one "battle against" such uses in contexts where omitting the apostrophe might potentially cause ambiguity? Some people claim uppercase letters don't need the apostrophe. As As, Is, Os, and Us form words when Ss are appended, I think that notion is silly.
– supercat
Oct 18 '12 at 23:09
1
1
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
"Greengrocer's apostrophe" is a term for incorrect use of 's. It does not apply to uses of 's that are merely much less common than they once were.
– Jon Hanna
Feb 13 '13 at 21:41
add a comment |
Either of the first two is acceptable, but I would recommend the first as the apostrophe isn't needed to convey your meaning, and as such is not required.
The third is just wrong since it creates an awkward sentence that is hard to say and discomforting to read. Most acronyms, including ATM, have a well-defined and commonly accepted meaning, which very rarely includes the pluralization. Avoid the ambiguity and include the s.
add a comment |
Either of the first two is acceptable, but I would recommend the first as the apostrophe isn't needed to convey your meaning, and as such is not required.
The third is just wrong since it creates an awkward sentence that is hard to say and discomforting to read. Most acronyms, including ATM, have a well-defined and commonly accepted meaning, which very rarely includes the pluralization. Avoid the ambiguity and include the s.
add a comment |
Either of the first two is acceptable, but I would recommend the first as the apostrophe isn't needed to convey your meaning, and as such is not required.
The third is just wrong since it creates an awkward sentence that is hard to say and discomforting to read. Most acronyms, including ATM, have a well-defined and commonly accepted meaning, which very rarely includes the pluralization. Avoid the ambiguity and include the s.
Either of the first two is acceptable, but I would recommend the first as the apostrophe isn't needed to convey your meaning, and as such is not required.
The third is just wrong since it creates an awkward sentence that is hard to say and discomforting to read. Most acronyms, including ATM, have a well-defined and commonly accepted meaning, which very rarely includes the pluralization. Avoid the ambiguity and include the s.
answered Aug 12 '10 at 21:26
jeffamaphonejeffamaphone
7641813
7641813
add a comment |
add a comment |
Just a small addition to the subject and one that is probably as much related to typography as it is to grammar...
There is an issue with all-caps. For example, if we were:
Talking about ATMs. Then the apostrophe is out.
But, if we were:
TALKING ABOUT ATM'S. Then the case for using one is much stronger as it serves to differentiate Automated Teller Machine from, say, Automated Teller Machine Software
Of course, that doesn't address the question of why you'd be using all-caps in the first place...
add a comment |
Just a small addition to the subject and one that is probably as much related to typography as it is to grammar...
There is an issue with all-caps. For example, if we were:
Talking about ATMs. Then the apostrophe is out.
But, if we were:
TALKING ABOUT ATM'S. Then the case for using one is much stronger as it serves to differentiate Automated Teller Machine from, say, Automated Teller Machine Software
Of course, that doesn't address the question of why you'd be using all-caps in the first place...
add a comment |
Just a small addition to the subject and one that is probably as much related to typography as it is to grammar...
There is an issue with all-caps. For example, if we were:
Talking about ATMs. Then the apostrophe is out.
But, if we were:
TALKING ABOUT ATM'S. Then the case for using one is much stronger as it serves to differentiate Automated Teller Machine from, say, Automated Teller Machine Software
Of course, that doesn't address the question of why you'd be using all-caps in the first place...
Just a small addition to the subject and one that is probably as much related to typography as it is to grammar...
There is an issue with all-caps. For example, if we were:
Talking about ATMs. Then the apostrophe is out.
But, if we were:
TALKING ABOUT ATM'S. Then the case for using one is much stronger as it serves to differentiate Automated Teller Machine from, say, Automated Teller Machine Software
Of course, that doesn't address the question of why you'd be using all-caps in the first place...
answered Nov 15 '17 at 4:57
PerryWPerryW
19916
19916
add a comment |
add a comment |
Using the apostrophe to indicate plurals of numbers, letters and abbreviations is standard, but it is not as common as s without the apostrophe.
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
add a comment |
Using the apostrophe to indicate plurals of numbers, letters and abbreviations is standard, but it is not as common as s without the apostrophe.
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
add a comment |
Using the apostrophe to indicate plurals of numbers, letters and abbreviations is standard, but it is not as common as s without the apostrophe.
Using the apostrophe to indicate plurals of numbers, letters and abbreviations is standard, but it is not as common as s without the apostrophe.
answered Oct 11 '11 at 11:41
morphailmorphail
1,17177
1,17177
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
add a comment |
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
2
2
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
I'd say you have it backwards. Most authorities (e.g., stylebooks) prefer "ATMs," but most ignor--. Sorry, most people tend to use "ATM's".
– user9383
Feb 24 '12 at 2:01
add a comment |
protected by user2683 Jun 12 '12 at 20:00
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33
+1; great question, but whilst not meaning to sound overly pedantic, ATM is an initialism, not an acronym.
– Bryan
Apr 14 '11 at 22:22
37
@Bryan, not all dictionaries agree on that - some define acronyms to include initialisms and your pedantry fails to mention that... :)
– Unreason
Oct 11 '11 at 12:28
19
ATM Machines :-P
– Lyndon White
Apr 23 '14 at 6:38
12
JoeTaxpayer: The Colon followed by a Hyphen followed by a Capital P, indicates the preceding statement was in some way humours or teasing. :-P
– Lyndon White
Oct 22 '14 at 23:12
6
@Lyndon White ATM Machine falls under RAS Syndrome! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
– Nagarajan Shanmuganathan
Nov 15 '17 at 6:31