Has the meaning of the English colour name “pink” changed since the early 1900s?












7














This question was inspired by this one from skeptics.se, about the use of pink and blue clothing to denote the sex of babies. In noting cultures which have the reverse arrangement (i.e. some sort of anti-blue for boys) many examples actually seem to be that language's word for fairly saturated reds, rather than the very pastel shades we mean by modern English "pink."



I was already aware that traditional English hunting coats are called "pinks" even though they are actually scarlet. This set me to wondering if the meaning of the colour name may have changed over time, gradually becoming less saturated?



What I have found so far:




  • In general it is very difficult to be sure exactly what gamut of colours corresponds to an historic colour name;


  • The most common (albeit disputed) etymology for the hunting coats
    suggests they are based on a tailor's surname, not a colour, so that
    may be a red herring (so to speak!);


  • Etymologies for the color name
    generally refer to the plant genus Dianthus, or the species of
    that genus, Dianthus plumarius, that are commonly called
    "pinks." However I have an issue with that etymology. Whilst pinks
    may have a pastel colour, it is not usual. Depending on the soil conditions and exact strain, the colour is quite variable, ranging
    from white through to a very deep purple. The most common
    coloration seems to be a rather dark purplish red that perhaps could
    be called "carmine."


  • This excellent answer about the etymology of pink includes
    a (probably incomplete) timeline of the word gradually becoming a
    colour name. In 1819 at least four dyesª were called "pinks". All but
    one were saturated colours, and one was not even a shade of red. The
    unsaturated one was English pink, described as a "pale form of
    Dutch pink."


All of which has been very interesting, but not arrived at an answer to my question: when newspapers of the 1890s—1920s refer to dressing newborn boys in pink, what colour did they mean by "pink"?





a. Brief aside on the chemistry of dyes: the fact that a dye is a "lake" is unrelated to its colour. It is related only to the method of binding the pigment to the cloth. Both saturated and pastel shades may be lakes.










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  • 1




    Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
    – sumelic
    Jan 7 at 2:39








  • 2




    For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
    – sumelic
    2 days ago












  • In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
    – Kris
    2 days ago










  • @Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
    – Andrew Leach
    2 days ago






  • 3




    The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
    – user240918
    2 days ago
















7














This question was inspired by this one from skeptics.se, about the use of pink and blue clothing to denote the sex of babies. In noting cultures which have the reverse arrangement (i.e. some sort of anti-blue for boys) many examples actually seem to be that language's word for fairly saturated reds, rather than the very pastel shades we mean by modern English "pink."



I was already aware that traditional English hunting coats are called "pinks" even though they are actually scarlet. This set me to wondering if the meaning of the colour name may have changed over time, gradually becoming less saturated?



What I have found so far:




  • In general it is very difficult to be sure exactly what gamut of colours corresponds to an historic colour name;


  • The most common (albeit disputed) etymology for the hunting coats
    suggests they are based on a tailor's surname, not a colour, so that
    may be a red herring (so to speak!);


  • Etymologies for the color name
    generally refer to the plant genus Dianthus, or the species of
    that genus, Dianthus plumarius, that are commonly called
    "pinks." However I have an issue with that etymology. Whilst pinks
    may have a pastel colour, it is not usual. Depending on the soil conditions and exact strain, the colour is quite variable, ranging
    from white through to a very deep purple. The most common
    coloration seems to be a rather dark purplish red that perhaps could
    be called "carmine."


  • This excellent answer about the etymology of pink includes
    a (probably incomplete) timeline of the word gradually becoming a
    colour name. In 1819 at least four dyesª were called "pinks". All but
    one were saturated colours, and one was not even a shade of red. The
    unsaturated one was English pink, described as a "pale form of
    Dutch pink."


All of which has been very interesting, but not arrived at an answer to my question: when newspapers of the 1890s—1920s refer to dressing newborn boys in pink, what colour did they mean by "pink"?





a. Brief aside on the chemistry of dyes: the fact that a dye is a "lake" is unrelated to its colour. It is related only to the method of binding the pigment to the cloth. Both saturated and pastel shades may be lakes.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Securiger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 1




    Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
    – sumelic
    Jan 7 at 2:39








  • 2




    For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
    – sumelic
    2 days ago












  • In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
    – Kris
    2 days ago










  • @Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
    – Andrew Leach
    2 days ago






  • 3




    The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
    – user240918
    2 days ago














7












7








7


2





This question was inspired by this one from skeptics.se, about the use of pink and blue clothing to denote the sex of babies. In noting cultures which have the reverse arrangement (i.e. some sort of anti-blue for boys) many examples actually seem to be that language's word for fairly saturated reds, rather than the very pastel shades we mean by modern English "pink."



I was already aware that traditional English hunting coats are called "pinks" even though they are actually scarlet. This set me to wondering if the meaning of the colour name may have changed over time, gradually becoming less saturated?



What I have found so far:




  • In general it is very difficult to be sure exactly what gamut of colours corresponds to an historic colour name;


  • The most common (albeit disputed) etymology for the hunting coats
    suggests they are based on a tailor's surname, not a colour, so that
    may be a red herring (so to speak!);


  • Etymologies for the color name
    generally refer to the plant genus Dianthus, or the species of
    that genus, Dianthus plumarius, that are commonly called
    "pinks." However I have an issue with that etymology. Whilst pinks
    may have a pastel colour, it is not usual. Depending on the soil conditions and exact strain, the colour is quite variable, ranging
    from white through to a very deep purple. The most common
    coloration seems to be a rather dark purplish red that perhaps could
    be called "carmine."


  • This excellent answer about the etymology of pink includes
    a (probably incomplete) timeline of the word gradually becoming a
    colour name. In 1819 at least four dyesª were called "pinks". All but
    one were saturated colours, and one was not even a shade of red. The
    unsaturated one was English pink, described as a "pale form of
    Dutch pink."


All of which has been very interesting, but not arrived at an answer to my question: when newspapers of the 1890s—1920s refer to dressing newborn boys in pink, what colour did they mean by "pink"?





a. Brief aside on the chemistry of dyes: the fact that a dye is a "lake" is unrelated to its colour. It is related only to the method of binding the pigment to the cloth. Both saturated and pastel shades may be lakes.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Securiger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











This question was inspired by this one from skeptics.se, about the use of pink and blue clothing to denote the sex of babies. In noting cultures which have the reverse arrangement (i.e. some sort of anti-blue for boys) many examples actually seem to be that language's word for fairly saturated reds, rather than the very pastel shades we mean by modern English "pink."



I was already aware that traditional English hunting coats are called "pinks" even though they are actually scarlet. This set me to wondering if the meaning of the colour name may have changed over time, gradually becoming less saturated?



What I have found so far:




  • In general it is very difficult to be sure exactly what gamut of colours corresponds to an historic colour name;


  • The most common (albeit disputed) etymology for the hunting coats
    suggests they are based on a tailor's surname, not a colour, so that
    may be a red herring (so to speak!);


  • Etymologies for the color name
    generally refer to the plant genus Dianthus, or the species of
    that genus, Dianthus plumarius, that are commonly called
    "pinks." However I have an issue with that etymology. Whilst pinks
    may have a pastel colour, it is not usual. Depending on the soil conditions and exact strain, the colour is quite variable, ranging
    from white through to a very deep purple. The most common
    coloration seems to be a rather dark purplish red that perhaps could
    be called "carmine."


  • This excellent answer about the etymology of pink includes
    a (probably incomplete) timeline of the word gradually becoming a
    colour name. In 1819 at least four dyesª were called "pinks". All but
    one were saturated colours, and one was not even a shade of red. The
    unsaturated one was English pink, described as a "pale form of
    Dutch pink."


All of which has been very interesting, but not arrived at an answer to my question: when newspapers of the 1890s—1920s refer to dressing newborn boys in pink, what colour did they mean by "pink"?





a. Brief aside on the chemistry of dyes: the fact that a dye is a "lake" is unrelated to its colour. It is related only to the method of binding the pigment to the cloth. Both saturated and pastel shades may be lakes.







historical-change






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Securiger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







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Check out our Code of Conduct.









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asked Jan 7 at 2:05









SecurigerSecuriger

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New contributor





Securiger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 1




    Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
    – sumelic
    Jan 7 at 2:39








  • 2




    For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
    – sumelic
    2 days ago












  • In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
    – Kris
    2 days ago










  • @Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
    – Andrew Leach
    2 days ago






  • 3




    The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
    – user240918
    2 days ago














  • 1




    Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
    – sumelic
    Jan 7 at 2:39








  • 2




    For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
    – sumelic
    2 days ago












  • In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
    – Kris
    2 days ago










  • @Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
    – Andrew Leach
    2 days ago






  • 3




    The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
    – user240918
    2 days ago








1




1




Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
– sumelic
Jan 7 at 2:39






Even in modern English, I'm not sure I agree that the word "pink" is that strongly associated with "pastel" tones. Consider that ""hot pink" is a relatively common collocation which refers to a fairly saturated color.
– sumelic
Jan 7 at 2:39






2




2




For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
– sumelic
2 days ago






For example, the xkcd color names survey results indicate that a fully saturated mix of red and blue ("magenta" in the RGB model) tends to be called "pink" by English speakers, as long as it's bright enough.
– sumelic
2 days ago














In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
– Kris
2 days ago




In the English language, pink is "a colour intermediate between red and white, as of coral or salmon" (ODOL). Technically today, ~625–750 nm and 380-490 nm (WP).
– Kris
2 days ago












@Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
– Andrew Leach
2 days ago




@Kris But (a) that's only one view (b) who's to say that wasn't the view in 1920 or before? I suppose as a comment it might be useful...
– Andrew Leach
2 days ago




3




3




The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
– user240918
2 days ago




The Legend of Tailor Pink web.archive.org/web/20130825123254/http://www.dtc.umn.edu/…
– user240918
2 days ago










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