Why did Democrats in the Senate oppose the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act (2019 S.130)?
The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:
a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.
Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:
Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.
“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.
...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.
However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying
"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."
Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."
The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.
If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?
I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").
Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?
united-states democratic-party abortion
|
show 4 more comments
The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:
a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.
Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:
Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.
“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.
...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.
However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying
"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."
Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."
The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.
If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?
I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").
Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?
united-states democratic-party abortion
12
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
5
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
2
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
3
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
2
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:
a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.
Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:
Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.
“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.
...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.
However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying
"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."
Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."
The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.
If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?
I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").
Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?
united-states democratic-party abortion
The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:
a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.
Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:
Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.
“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.
...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.
However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying
"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."
Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."
The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.
If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?
I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").
Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?
united-states democratic-party abortion
united-states democratic-party abortion
edited 5 hours ago
Jared Smith
4,39421326
4,39421326
asked 14 hours ago
NullNull
377515
377515
12
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
5
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
2
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
3
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
2
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
12
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
5
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
2
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
3
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
2
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago
12
12
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
5
5
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
2
2
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
3
3
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
2
2
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Technically infanticide is already illegal
Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.
Sen Tim Kaine stated
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."
"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.
Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny
Sen Chuck Schumer said this
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”
Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push
From Vox
The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
add a comment |
As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.
The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.
So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.
Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.
In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.
Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
|
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Technically infanticide is already illegal
Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.
Sen Tim Kaine stated
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."
"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.
Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny
Sen Chuck Schumer said this
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”
Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push
From Vox
The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
add a comment |
Technically infanticide is already illegal
Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.
Sen Tim Kaine stated
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."
"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.
Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny
Sen Chuck Schumer said this
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”
Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push
From Vox
The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
add a comment |
Technically infanticide is already illegal
Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.
Sen Tim Kaine stated
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."
"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.
Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny
Sen Chuck Schumer said this
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”
Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push
From Vox
The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”
Technically infanticide is already illegal
Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.
Sen Tim Kaine stated
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."
"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.
Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny
Sen Chuck Schumer said this
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”
Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push
From Vox
The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”
answered 13 hours ago
MachavityMachavity
17.3k45484
17.3k45484
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
add a comment |
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?
– Null
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with
– Machavity
12 hours ago
1
1
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.
– Null
12 hours ago
8
8
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)
– BurnsBA
11 hours ago
add a comment |
As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.
The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.
So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.
Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.
In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.
Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.
The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.
So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.
Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.
In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.
Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.
The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.
So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.
Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.
In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.
Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.
As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.
The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.
So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.
Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.
In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.
Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
Michael_BMichael_B
6,99442026
6,99442026
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
5
5
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?
– Null
12 hours ago
1
1
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.
– Geobits
12 hours ago
4
4
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
2
2
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.
– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago
2
2
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits
– Michael_B
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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12
"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
5
You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.
– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago
2
@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.
– Null
13 hours ago
3
@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.
– David Rice
10 hours ago
2
"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.
– smci
5 hours ago