Why did Democrats in the Senate oppose the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act (2019 S.130)?












16















The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question




















  • 12





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 5





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    13 hours ago






  • 3





    @Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

    – David Rice
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    "If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

    – smci
    5 hours ago
















16















The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question




















  • 12





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 5





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    13 hours ago






  • 3





    @Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

    – David Rice
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    "If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

    – smci
    5 hours ago














16












16








16


1






The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?










share|improve this question
















The U.S. Senate voted in January 2019 to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which in the words of the bill itself would prohibit:




a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.




Fox News reports that the bill was blocked by Democrats in the Senate, including all of the Democrats currently running for president in 2020 (I could not find any coverage of this vote on CNN). The Fox News article mostly discussed the Republican support for the bill, but it does have some information about why Democrats opposed it:




Opponents, noting the rarity of such births and citing laws already making it a crime to kill newborn babies, said the bill was unnecessary. They said it was part of a push by abortion opponents to curb access to the procedure and intimidate doctors who perform it, and said late-term abortions generally occur when the infant is considered incapable of surviving after birth.



“This bill is just another line of attack in the ongoing war on women’s health,” New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen said on the Senate floor.



...Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., objected to Sasse's bill, saying the legislation was unnecessary and amounted to a political stunt.




However, the article also recalls recent actions by Democrats such as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam and Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, the latter of whom sponsored a state bill to allow third-trimester abortions and the former of whom endorsed it by saying




"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And, it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable."



Northam continued: "So, in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So, I think this was really blown out of proportion."




The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act seems to have been introduced at least in part in response to the suggestion that a live infant who survived a late-term abortion might not be resuscitated.



If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions then why are Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that this regulation of such abortions is unnecessary? Is this a just a disconnect between Democrats at the state and federal levels?



I'm also not sure what Senator Shaheen's comment about "women’s health" has to do with the bill, since the law deals with infants who have already been born. Additionally, the law would prohibit prosecution of the mother who sought the abortion and allow the mother to obtain "appropriate relief" in a civil action against the physician who violated the law (e.g. "statutory damages equal to 3 times the cost of the abortion or attempted abortion").



Have any senators who voted against the bill provided a detailed argument for their opposition to the bill beyond the sound bites quoted above?







united-states democratic-party abortion






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 5 hours ago









Jared Smith

4,39421326




4,39421326










asked 14 hours ago









NullNull

377515




377515








  • 12





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 5





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    13 hours ago






  • 3





    @Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

    – David Rice
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    "If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

    – smci
    5 hours ago














  • 12





    "Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 5





    You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

    – Bryan Krause
    14 hours ago








  • 2





    @BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

    – Null
    13 hours ago






  • 3





    @Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

    – David Rice
    10 hours ago






  • 2





    "If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

    – smci
    5 hours ago








12




12





"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago







"Democrats at the federal level claiming that late-term abortions are so rare that such abortions do not need to be regulated" - What? No one is advocating that late-term abortions do not need to be regulated. Democrats see this proposed law as one that's as silly as a law that would require doctors to treat a dementia patient for every physical ailment they have after they've lost all faculties. It takes medical decision making away from the people close to the situation who care and puts it in the hands of lawmakers for purely religious reasons.

– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago






5




5





You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago







You already provided quotes that explain the reasoning which goes beyond being "so rare" - I don't think your question is genuine. Democrats don't want a law that prevents a pregnant woman from terminating a non-viable pregnancy or putting doctors at legal risk for doing so.

– Bryan Krause
14 hours ago






2




2





@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

– Null
13 hours ago





@BryanKrause I am asking for reasoning which goes beyond the sound bites provided, and which come from an article from a source that leans right-wing. As I mentioned, I could not find coverage on the more left-leaning CNN which might provide a better explanation of the opposition to the bill.

– Null
13 hours ago




3




3





@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

– David Rice
10 hours ago





@Null I'm not sure why you think those quotes aren't considered good reasons. It criminalizes things that are already criminal. At best it's unnecessary (kind of like outlawing breaking into someone's house) and at worst it's an attempt to make doctors too nervous about the law to perform the operations, thus denying women access to safe abortions.

– David Rice
10 hours ago




2




2





"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

– smci
5 hours ago





"If Democrats at the state level are introducing legislation to allow late-term abortions..." is intentionally misleading (faulty generalization). One freshman Democrat (Kathy Tran) from one blue district (Fairfax) in one state (VA) introduced one failed bill, once, in 2019, is all this is. Equivalently, the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the overwhelming majority of states are not doing this, nor at federal level. It is grossly unreasonable to make wild and faulty generalizations from the actions of one freshman state politician from one blue district in one state.

– smci
5 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















30














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    12 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 8





    The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    11 hours ago



















1














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    12 hours ago








  • 4





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago













Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "475"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f39060%2fwhy-did-democrats-in-the-senate-oppose-the-born-alive-abortion-survivors-protect%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









30














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    12 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 8





    The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    11 hours ago
















30














Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer
























  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    12 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 8





    The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    11 hours ago














30












30








30







Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”







share|improve this answer













Technically infanticide is already illegal



Roe v Wade legalized abortion. Technically, you cannot abort a fetus once it has left the mother and Federal law prohibits it. Kermit Gosnell, a late term abortionist, was charged with (but not convicted of) one count of infanticide, an assertion by members of his staff (testifying against him) that some fetuses from late term abortions were still moving, and Gosnell murdered them.



Sen Tim Kaine stated




Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who is Catholic, released a statement after the vote saying he opposed the bill because GOP statements about it are "misleading."



"Congress reaffirmed that fact with its passage of the bipartisan Born-Alive Infants Protection Act in 2002. I support that law, which is still in effect. There is no need for additional federal legislation on this topic," Kaine said.




Democrats fear it will lead to undue abortion provider scrutiny



Sen Chuck Schumer said this




Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said on the Senate floor that the born-alive bill “is carefully crafted to target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers.” He also claimed the bill “would impose requirements on what type of care doctors must provide in certain circumstances, even if that care is ineffective, contradictory to medical evidence, and against the family’s wishes.”




Democrats may feel it might be part of a broader push



From Vox




The bill may also be part of a larger strategy by Republicans of focusing on very late abortions in order to drum up support among social conservatives. Trump referenced the issue in his State of the Union speech, saying, “we had the case of the governor of Virginia where he basically stated he would execute a baby after birth.”








share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 13 hours ago









MachavityMachavity

17.3k45484




17.3k45484













  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    12 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 8





    The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    11 hours ago



















  • This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

    – Null
    12 hours ago











  • Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

    – Machavity
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 8





    The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

    – BurnsBA
    11 hours ago

















This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

– Null
12 hours ago





This is a good write-up, +1. Kaine's argument seems the strongest to me but Schumer's seems very weak (perhaps because it's from an article which portrays him negatively). I don't see how the law would "target, intimidate, and shut down reproductive health care providers" as Schumer claims -- I've read the whole bill and it mentions hospitals alongside abortion providers. Did Schumer go into any more detail to explain his assertion?

– Null
12 hours ago













Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

– Machavity
12 hours ago





Quotes on this are surprisingly hard to come by. You already have Sen Murray's quote, and that's what most writers have run with

– Machavity
12 hours ago




1




1





I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

– Null
12 hours ago





I see. Unfortunately, it's often hard to get much more than sound bites out of politicians.

– Null
12 hours ago




8




8





The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

– BurnsBA
11 hours ago





The linked National Review article points out that clinics would have to provide "the same degree" of care at the same gestation period. This could be substantial, especially supporting premature births. That makes it sound like this law was crafted with the same intent as the recently decided Whole Woman's Health v. Hellerstedt -- to add unnecessary burdens to clinics forcing them to shut down. (Some part of this might be worth mentioning to tie together the 2nd and 3rd point)

– BurnsBA
11 hours ago











1














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    12 hours ago








  • 4





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago


















1














As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    12 hours ago








  • 4





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago
















1












1








1







As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.






share|improve this answer















As you described, there appears to be a disconnect in the late-term abortion views between the state-level Democrats in Virginia and federal-level Democrats in Washington. Interestingly, however, in reading your question, that's not the primary disconnect in my view.



The bigger and more meaningful division may be between the Republicans backing the bill (who are talking about newborn babies) and the Democrats (who are still talking about abortion). The bill does not appear to be about abortion, but about human beings outside the womb.



So, in consideration of that incongruity, and the fact that infanticide is already illegal, this bill may be pure political strategy by pro-life Republicans, who see an opportunity after the highly-publicized, "pro-infanticide" comments of Virginia's governor Ralph Northam and Delegate Kathy Tran, to portray Democrats as so extreme that they even support killing newborn babies. In short, this action may be no more than an effort to gain a political edge in the 2020 general elections.



Because this bill does not directly involve abortion, yet it is a tangential issue and the word "abortion" is in the title, it's politically difficult for Democrats, who receive major support from abortion advocates, to support it. In fact, for political purposes alone, it's very difficult for Democrats to support any legislation that (even remotely) suggests restrictions on abortion. If they don't oppose restrictions they risk losing campaign funding and sparking a primary challenge.



In terms of the Democratic presidential candidates, supporting this bill would be tantamount to political suicide. Any candidate who supports this bill would be moving themselves to the Right on the political spectrum, making themselves vulnerable to attack from the Left, where control of the nomination is believed to be. So any candidate perceived as anything less than extreme Left on this issue enables primary opponents to characterize them as weak on abortion and in alliance with Republicans. Either one of those attacks can be enough to sink a primary campaign. Therefore, all candidates must oppose the bill in order to remain... viable.



Because of the widespread support for abortion rights in the Democratic party, the presidential candidates face no risk at this stage in opposing this legislation. But in the general election, where the electorate is more centrist than primary voters in both major parties, this vote may come back to haunt the nominee. That seems to be the overall Republican play here.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 hours ago

























answered 13 hours ago









Michael_BMichael_B

6,99442026




6,99442026








  • 5





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    12 hours ago








  • 4





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago
















  • 5





    This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

    – Null
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    -1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

    – Geobits
    12 hours ago








  • 4





    @Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

    – Jeff Lambert
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

    – Michael_B
    12 hours ago










5




5





This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

– Null
12 hours ago





This is a good explanation of the Republican strategy behind the bill, but aside from the fact that Democrats "receive major support from abortion advocates" I don't see why Democrats would oppose a bill which only deals with abortion as a "tangential" issue. Wouldn't the presidential candidates want to avoid being accused of supporting infanticide (the Republican charge) just as much as they'd want to avoid being characterized as "weak on choice"?

– Null
12 hours ago




1




1





-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

– Geobits
12 hours ago







-1 There is no disconnect. This bill criminalizes something that is already illegal, and doesn't conflict with the VA bill in any way. It's a show vote from Republicans to keep the scare-word "abortion" in the news, and that's all it is.

– Geobits
12 hours ago






4




4





@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

– Michael_B
12 hours ago





@Null, I refer you to governor Northam. He wasn't attacked by his own side for his abortion views. He was attacked for wearing racist costumes in grad school.

– Michael_B
12 hours ago




2




2





@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago





@Null With a crowded field, the presidential candidates have to survive the primary first before even worrying about what Republicans say or think. By taking hard stances on controversial issues they hope to set themselves apart from the other Democratic candidates, from which one of them will most likely pivot back towards the center after securing the nomination.

– Jeff Lambert
12 hours ago




2




2





I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

– Michael_B
12 hours ago







I do see a disconnect, and agree with the OP on that. However, you're right, it may not be "obvious" and is open to interpretation. So I've amended my answer. But I don't think this is just R's catering to their base. This is designed for a more broad-based appeal in my view. Thanks for the feedback. @Geobits

– Michael_B
12 hours ago




















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f39060%2fwhy-did-democrats-in-the-senate-oppose-the-born-alive-abortion-survivors-protect%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

"Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'ON'. (on update cascade, on delete cascade,)

Alcedinidae

RAC Tourist Trophy