Strength of face-nailed connection for stair steps
$begingroup$
I'm building a loft ladder with alternating-tread steps. The stringers are 2x6 White Spruce, and I'm hoping to build the steps out of the same material.
The span for the steps is 21". Code requires handling a maximum point load of 300 pounds at the step center, or a live load of 40psf, whichever is higher.
If I've done the math right, steps made from 2x6 white spruce laid flat will meet that requirement.
However, I'm unable to find reliable information about the connection between the steps and the stringer. I'm hoping to attach the steps with three 16d 3.5" nails on the wide side, and two 16d 3.5" nails on the narrow side.
My main concern being the limited amount of wood above the fastener in the step member causing failure.
How can I determine the maximum load the connection can bear in this configuration:
structural-engineering
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm building a loft ladder with alternating-tread steps. The stringers are 2x6 White Spruce, and I'm hoping to build the steps out of the same material.
The span for the steps is 21". Code requires handling a maximum point load of 300 pounds at the step center, or a live load of 40psf, whichever is higher.
If I've done the math right, steps made from 2x6 white spruce laid flat will meet that requirement.
However, I'm unable to find reliable information about the connection between the steps and the stringer. I'm hoping to attach the steps with three 16d 3.5" nails on the wide side, and two 16d 3.5" nails on the narrow side.
My main concern being the limited amount of wood above the fastener in the step member causing failure.
How can I determine the maximum load the connection can bear in this configuration:
structural-engineering
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm building a loft ladder with alternating-tread steps. The stringers are 2x6 White Spruce, and I'm hoping to build the steps out of the same material.
The span for the steps is 21". Code requires handling a maximum point load of 300 pounds at the step center, or a live load of 40psf, whichever is higher.
If I've done the math right, steps made from 2x6 white spruce laid flat will meet that requirement.
However, I'm unable to find reliable information about the connection between the steps and the stringer. I'm hoping to attach the steps with three 16d 3.5" nails on the wide side, and two 16d 3.5" nails on the narrow side.
My main concern being the limited amount of wood above the fastener in the step member causing failure.
How can I determine the maximum load the connection can bear in this configuration:
structural-engineering
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
$endgroup$
I'm building a loft ladder with alternating-tread steps. The stringers are 2x6 White Spruce, and I'm hoping to build the steps out of the same material.
The span for the steps is 21". Code requires handling a maximum point load of 300 pounds at the step center, or a live load of 40psf, whichever is higher.
If I've done the math right, steps made from 2x6 white spruce laid flat will meet that requirement.
However, I'm unable to find reliable information about the connection between the steps and the stringer. I'm hoping to attach the steps with three 16d 3.5" nails on the wide side, and two 16d 3.5" nails on the narrow side.
My main concern being the limited amount of wood above the fastener in the step member causing failure.
How can I determine the maximum load the connection can bear in this configuration:
structural-engineering
structural-engineering
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
asked Mar 31 at 5:56
Jacob Davis-HanssonJacob Davis-Hansson
1162
1162
$begingroup$
One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29
add a comment |
$begingroup$
One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29
$begingroup$
One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29
$begingroup$
One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I suggest cutting slots in the stringers to hold the steps putting the load on wood and not 3 nails which will work loose or split the wood.
image from finehomebuilding.com
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The item shown would be ripped out on the spot by our local inspectors. (Technically, they'd make you do it while they were writing out the fine.)
Twenty-one inch treads aren't allowed on stairs (OP says it's okay where he is, see comment below). That's probably not a staircase according to code. It looks like it would be classed as a ladder (I reckon the tread spacing to be greater than that allowed since it appears to cover about 9 feet with 11 treads). Permanently installed ladders are prohibited. Folding or temporary ladders can be used to access attics and such (unheated and unfurnished spaces). All stairs within the structure must have identical rise and run — are there any other grade breaks in the building? Code prohibits nailing stair treads as proposed. The banisters have to be on both sides and equal in height, spaced to code, and have approved banister profiles and mountings (maybe they are, hard to tell from wide angle shot). Handrails can't be bang-ended like that. Open treads are usually restricted. They have to be really wide treads so you cant get anything trapped in there and must pass the same tennis-ball-can't-pass-through rule. Talk to your building codes dept. and buy a book on stair construction.
A friend of mine's father died when he fell on an open staircase while changing a light bulb. His leg went through the open step and he got a compound fracture in the leg. The resulting blood clot killed him two days later. I got the call and had to go find my friend and tell him. I remember that day quite well.
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
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$begingroup$
I suggest cutting slots in the stringers to hold the steps putting the load on wood and not 3 nails which will work loose or split the wood.
image from finehomebuilding.com
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I suggest cutting slots in the stringers to hold the steps putting the load on wood and not 3 nails which will work loose or split the wood.
image from finehomebuilding.com
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I suggest cutting slots in the stringers to hold the steps putting the load on wood and not 3 nails which will work loose or split the wood.
image from finehomebuilding.com
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
$endgroup$
I suggest cutting slots in the stringers to hold the steps putting the load on wood and not 3 nails which will work loose or split the wood.
image from finehomebuilding.com
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
edited Mar 31 at 7:54
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
answered Mar 31 at 6:56
Solar MikeSolar Mike
5,5011614
5,5011614
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
$begingroup$
This is required, or you must put a separate cleat under the tread. And a tension rod holding the risers together run through each tread or under it is commonly used. Nails are definitely a no-no (specifically prohibited by code in my area). You also must use a handrail on both sides and I believe most codes prohibit open stairs, you must use kicks unless the treads are way bigger than yours. Consult the local codes people.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 12:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The item shown would be ripped out on the spot by our local inspectors. (Technically, they'd make you do it while they were writing out the fine.)
Twenty-one inch treads aren't allowed on stairs (OP says it's okay where he is, see comment below). That's probably not a staircase according to code. It looks like it would be classed as a ladder (I reckon the tread spacing to be greater than that allowed since it appears to cover about 9 feet with 11 treads). Permanently installed ladders are prohibited. Folding or temporary ladders can be used to access attics and such (unheated and unfurnished spaces). All stairs within the structure must have identical rise and run — are there any other grade breaks in the building? Code prohibits nailing stair treads as proposed. The banisters have to be on both sides and equal in height, spaced to code, and have approved banister profiles and mountings (maybe they are, hard to tell from wide angle shot). Handrails can't be bang-ended like that. Open treads are usually restricted. They have to be really wide treads so you cant get anything trapped in there and must pass the same tennis-ball-can't-pass-through rule. Talk to your building codes dept. and buy a book on stair construction.
A friend of mine's father died when he fell on an open staircase while changing a light bulb. His leg went through the open step and he got a compound fracture in the leg. The resulting blood clot killed him two days later. I got the call and had to go find my friend and tell him. I remember that day quite well.
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The item shown would be ripped out on the spot by our local inspectors. (Technically, they'd make you do it while they were writing out the fine.)
Twenty-one inch treads aren't allowed on stairs (OP says it's okay where he is, see comment below). That's probably not a staircase according to code. It looks like it would be classed as a ladder (I reckon the tread spacing to be greater than that allowed since it appears to cover about 9 feet with 11 treads). Permanently installed ladders are prohibited. Folding or temporary ladders can be used to access attics and such (unheated and unfurnished spaces). All stairs within the structure must have identical rise and run — are there any other grade breaks in the building? Code prohibits nailing stair treads as proposed. The banisters have to be on both sides and equal in height, spaced to code, and have approved banister profiles and mountings (maybe they are, hard to tell from wide angle shot). Handrails can't be bang-ended like that. Open treads are usually restricted. They have to be really wide treads so you cant get anything trapped in there and must pass the same tennis-ball-can't-pass-through rule. Talk to your building codes dept. and buy a book on stair construction.
A friend of mine's father died when he fell on an open staircase while changing a light bulb. His leg went through the open step and he got a compound fracture in the leg. The resulting blood clot killed him two days later. I got the call and had to go find my friend and tell him. I remember that day quite well.
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The item shown would be ripped out on the spot by our local inspectors. (Technically, they'd make you do it while they were writing out the fine.)
Twenty-one inch treads aren't allowed on stairs (OP says it's okay where he is, see comment below). That's probably not a staircase according to code. It looks like it would be classed as a ladder (I reckon the tread spacing to be greater than that allowed since it appears to cover about 9 feet with 11 treads). Permanently installed ladders are prohibited. Folding or temporary ladders can be used to access attics and such (unheated and unfurnished spaces). All stairs within the structure must have identical rise and run — are there any other grade breaks in the building? Code prohibits nailing stair treads as proposed. The banisters have to be on both sides and equal in height, spaced to code, and have approved banister profiles and mountings (maybe they are, hard to tell from wide angle shot). Handrails can't be bang-ended like that. Open treads are usually restricted. They have to be really wide treads so you cant get anything trapped in there and must pass the same tennis-ball-can't-pass-through rule. Talk to your building codes dept. and buy a book on stair construction.
A friend of mine's father died when he fell on an open staircase while changing a light bulb. His leg went through the open step and he got a compound fracture in the leg. The resulting blood clot killed him two days later. I got the call and had to go find my friend and tell him. I remember that day quite well.
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
$endgroup$
The item shown would be ripped out on the spot by our local inspectors. (Technically, they'd make you do it while they were writing out the fine.)
Twenty-one inch treads aren't allowed on stairs (OP says it's okay where he is, see comment below). That's probably not a staircase according to code. It looks like it would be classed as a ladder (I reckon the tread spacing to be greater than that allowed since it appears to cover about 9 feet with 11 treads). Permanently installed ladders are prohibited. Folding or temporary ladders can be used to access attics and such (unheated and unfurnished spaces). All stairs within the structure must have identical rise and run — are there any other grade breaks in the building? Code prohibits nailing stair treads as proposed. The banisters have to be on both sides and equal in height, spaced to code, and have approved banister profiles and mountings (maybe they are, hard to tell from wide angle shot). Handrails can't be bang-ended like that. Open treads are usually restricted. They have to be really wide treads so you cant get anything trapped in there and must pass the same tennis-ball-can't-pass-through rule. Talk to your building codes dept. and buy a book on stair construction.
A friend of mine's father died when he fell on an open staircase while changing a light bulb. His leg went through the open step and he got a compound fracture in the leg. The resulting blood clot killed him two days later. I got the call and had to go find my friend and tell him. I remember that day quite well.
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
edited Mar 31 at 15:02
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
answered Mar 31 at 13:28
Phil SweetPhil Sweet
1,053113
1,053113
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
1
1
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
$begingroup$
All due respect, the question was not about if this meets code (although it does, see ICC2015 R311.7.11, min width is 20"), the question is about the structural safety of this specific connection. I am very sorry your friends father had that awful accident.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Davis-Hansson
Mar 31 at 13:49
1
1
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
$begingroup$
@JacobDavis-Hansson Good link. Please add that to your question. (it's IRC 2015, btw). Also please identify your location and the type of structure. According to the "local amendment" on alternating treads, the top one has to be at the same level as the upper landing. This is to clue the user in so they don't start down on the wrong foot. The one shown doesn't do that. And I see doors up there. Less than 200sqft? Also 4" sphere rule isn't being complied with. And I didn't actually see where 20" treads were permitted, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, don't use nails.
$endgroup$
– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 14:11
add a comment |
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One specific problem with the banister is where the book shelves are. Coming down, the shelves create an entrapment hazard where the wall resumes. This is very dangerous and needs to be fixed. I'd suggest putting a board behind the banister, but I don't know if that would pass muster or not. Same with the bang-ends of the banister. Those have to be terminated to a newel or the wall or wrapped around in some way.
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– Phil Sweet
Mar 31 at 15:29