How does gravity affect pressure under water?
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How different would being under water in Europa differ from being under water on Earth? Would it be possible to dive deeper on Europa with a submarine than on Earth and by how much?
gravity astrophysics atmosphere europa
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
How different would being under water in Europa differ from being under water on Earth? Would it be possible to dive deeper on Europa with a submarine than on Earth and by how much?
gravity astrophysics atmosphere europa
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
1
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
How different would being under water in Europa differ from being under water on Earth? Would it be possible to dive deeper on Europa with a submarine than on Earth and by how much?
gravity astrophysics atmosphere europa
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
How different would being under water in Europa differ from being under water on Earth? Would it be possible to dive deeper on Europa with a submarine than on Earth and by how much?
gravity astrophysics atmosphere europa
gravity astrophysics atmosphere europa
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
edited Nov 29 at 16:15
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
asked Nov 28 at 21:18
Muze
736118
736118
In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
1
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15
add a comment |
In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
1
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15
In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
1
1
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
For a liquid, hydrostatic pressure is $rho g h$ where $rho$ is density (this is always the same for all water) g is gravitational acceleration and h is depth.
The gravitational acceleration on Europa is 1.3 $text{m/s}{}^2$ (compared with 9.8 $text{m/s}{}^2$ on Earth). But on Europa there is 20km of ice floating on the water.
As a rough estimate, the gravity in Europa is 1/10 that on Earth, so the pressure at the bottom of the ice/top of the water would be comparable to the pressure at 2km in the Earth's Oceans.
Since we can build submarines that can operate at 10km, we could reasonably suppose that we could operate submarines down to about 100km on Europa, which takes us to the rocky surface. However we have no way to pass through 20km of ice crust to reach the water layer. Building the submarine may be the easy part!
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
|
show 3 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
For a liquid, hydrostatic pressure is $rho g h$ where $rho$ is density (this is always the same for all water) g is gravitational acceleration and h is depth.
The gravitational acceleration on Europa is 1.3 $text{m/s}{}^2$ (compared with 9.8 $text{m/s}{}^2$ on Earth). But on Europa there is 20km of ice floating on the water.
As a rough estimate, the gravity in Europa is 1/10 that on Earth, so the pressure at the bottom of the ice/top of the water would be comparable to the pressure at 2km in the Earth's Oceans.
Since we can build submarines that can operate at 10km, we could reasonably suppose that we could operate submarines down to about 100km on Europa, which takes us to the rocky surface. However we have no way to pass through 20km of ice crust to reach the water layer. Building the submarine may be the easy part!
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
For a liquid, hydrostatic pressure is $rho g h$ where $rho$ is density (this is always the same for all water) g is gravitational acceleration and h is depth.
The gravitational acceleration on Europa is 1.3 $text{m/s}{}^2$ (compared with 9.8 $text{m/s}{}^2$ on Earth). But on Europa there is 20km of ice floating on the water.
As a rough estimate, the gravity in Europa is 1/10 that on Earth, so the pressure at the bottom of the ice/top of the water would be comparable to the pressure at 2km in the Earth's Oceans.
Since we can build submarines that can operate at 10km, we could reasonably suppose that we could operate submarines down to about 100km on Europa, which takes us to the rocky surface. However we have no way to pass through 20km of ice crust to reach the water layer. Building the submarine may be the easy part!
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
For a liquid, hydrostatic pressure is $rho g h$ where $rho$ is density (this is always the same for all water) g is gravitational acceleration and h is depth.
The gravitational acceleration on Europa is 1.3 $text{m/s}{}^2$ (compared with 9.8 $text{m/s}{}^2$ on Earth). But on Europa there is 20km of ice floating on the water.
As a rough estimate, the gravity in Europa is 1/10 that on Earth, so the pressure at the bottom of the ice/top of the water would be comparable to the pressure at 2km in the Earth's Oceans.
Since we can build submarines that can operate at 10km, we could reasonably suppose that we could operate submarines down to about 100km on Europa, which takes us to the rocky surface. However we have no way to pass through 20km of ice crust to reach the water layer. Building the submarine may be the easy part!
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
For a liquid, hydrostatic pressure is $rho g h$ where $rho$ is density (this is always the same for all water) g is gravitational acceleration and h is depth.
The gravitational acceleration on Europa is 1.3 $text{m/s}{}^2$ (compared with 9.8 $text{m/s}{}^2$ on Earth). But on Europa there is 20km of ice floating on the water.
As a rough estimate, the gravity in Europa is 1/10 that on Earth, so the pressure at the bottom of the ice/top of the water would be comparable to the pressure at 2km in the Earth's Oceans.
Since we can build submarines that can operate at 10km, we could reasonably suppose that we could operate submarines down to about 100km on Europa, which takes us to the rocky surface. However we have no way to pass through 20km of ice crust to reach the water layer. Building the submarine may be the easy part!
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
edited Dec 1 at 7:28
uhoh
4,68921456
4,68921456
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
answered Nov 28 at 21:44
James K
32.2k248106
32.2k248106
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
|
show 3 more comments
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
4
4
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
A hot submarine could melt its way through, a bit like a dark stone on a glacier ;-)
– Chappo
Nov 29 at 0:03
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
Nice answer. Is 20 km of ice a pretty good estimate? I thought it was a lot less certain.
– userLTK
Nov 29 at 1:28
1
1
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
@Chappo Yup. Put a nuclear reactor (not merely a RTG) on board, melt your way down.
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:50
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
To be fair, the density does change due to pressure and impurities - the difference is small, but whether it's negligible depends on what you're trying to calculate. In this case, it's definitely dwarfed by the difference in gravity and the ice layer, though (unless there's something very weird about Europa's oceans, which is a distant possibility).
– Luaan
Nov 29 at 7:46
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
what kind of radio or other communication device is needed to transmit through 20km of water ice?
– Alonda
Dec 1 at 18:08
|
show 3 more comments
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In order to answer this you'd need to know the density of Europa's oceans, which I don't believe anyone knows. Water pressure is created by the weight of the column of water above the depth in question, and this is directly related to its density. But if one assumes the density to be about equal to Earth's oceans, then the diving depth would simply be the ratio of Earth's and Europa's gravity (Earth = 9.78, Europa = 1.314).
– BillDOe
Nov 28 at 21:39
@BillDOe How compressible do you think water is?
– Rob Jeffries
Nov 28 at 22:17
1
@BillDOe Why do you think there would be a meaningful difference in density? (Obviously, if you get deep enough you'll start seeing effects but long before you get appreciable compression you'll get phase changes.)
– Loren Pechtel
Nov 29 at 4:49
I was thinking about dissolved solids in Europa's oceans possibly increasing the water's density and therefore weight, not the compressibility of water. Ocean water on Earth, for instance, is more dense that fresh water.
– BillDOe
Nov 29 at 20:15