Use of the dative on inscriptions
18
On the Bundestag building, the inscription reads "dem deutschen Volke", the German people. It is in the dative case. Why is the nominative case "das deutsches Volk" not used?
dative grammar-identification
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
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Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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18
On the Bundestag building, the inscription reads "dem deutschen Volke", the German people. It is in the dative case. Why is the nominative case "das deutsches Volk" not used?
dative grammar-identification
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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4
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
4
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
4
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
1
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
18
18
18
On the Bundestag building, the inscription reads "dem deutschen Volke", the German people. It is in the dative case. Why is the nominative case "das deutsches Volk" not used?
dative grammar-identification
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
963
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Paul Shepherd is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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On the Bundestag building, the inscription reads "dem deutschen Volke", the German people. It is in the dative case. Why is the nominative case "das deutsches Volk" not used?
dative grammar-identification
dative grammar-identification
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
edited yesterday
Wrzlprmft♦
18.3k445110
18.3k445110
asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
963
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asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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asked 2 days ago
Paul ShepherdPaul Shepherd
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963
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New contributor
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4
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
4
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
4
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
1
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
4
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
4
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
4
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
1
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday
4
4
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
4
4
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
4
4
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
1
1
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
4 Answers
4
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21
For the same reason you use to in an English dedication:
To my father
You wouldn't just put 'My father', since you're telling us who you are dedicating the book to, not what it is.
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
add a comment |
18
It's an ellipsis of
„Dieses Parlament ist dem deutschen Volk gewidmet“ (This parliament is dedicated to the German people).
Widmen requires a dativ object in German.
See here for a detailed article about this inscription (unfortunately in German only).
Similar typical inscriptions are "Dem Gedenken an ...", "Den Opfern von ..." usw.
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
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1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,to dedicateis dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So,This parliament is dedicated to the German peoplebecomes'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object)and therefore,demis used.
– Siddhartha
yesterday
add a comment |
14
This is what's called a dativus finalis
It tends to denote purpose and thus means "this is for [the benefit of] the German people".
Latin knew the same notion, an example would be "tibi laetitiae", meaning something along the lines of "for your enjoyment".
A simple nominative wouldn't transport this meaning (rather, it wouldn't transport much meaning on a building).
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
add a comment |
-2
it's the same dative case as:
to whom it may concern ...
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
21
For the same reason you use to in an English dedication:
To my father
You wouldn't just put 'My father', since you're telling us who you are dedicating the book to, not what it is.
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
add a comment |
21
For the same reason you use to in an English dedication:
To my father
You wouldn't just put 'My father', since you're telling us who you are dedicating the book to, not what it is.
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
add a comment |
21
21
21
For the same reason you use to in an English dedication:
To my father
You wouldn't just put 'My father', since you're telling us who you are dedicating the book to, not what it is.
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
For the same reason you use to in an English dedication:
To my father
You wouldn't just put 'My father', since you're telling us who you are dedicating the book to, not what it is.
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
answered yesterday
sgfsgf
1,541317
1,541317
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
add a comment |
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
1
1
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
Very good. This is the exact equivalent one would expect on a building in America or GB: "To the American/British People", short for [[This building is] dedicated] to the American/British people." Similar to a toast: "To our health."
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday
add a comment |
18
It's an ellipsis of
„Dieses Parlament ist dem deutschen Volk gewidmet“ (This parliament is dedicated to the German people).
Widmen requires a dativ object in German.
See here for a detailed article about this inscription (unfortunately in German only).
Similar typical inscriptions are "Dem Gedenken an ...", "Den Opfern von ..." usw.
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,to dedicateis dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So,This parliament is dedicated to the German peoplebecomes'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object)and therefore,demis used.
– Siddhartha
yesterday
add a comment |
18
It's an ellipsis of
„Dieses Parlament ist dem deutschen Volk gewidmet“ (This parliament is dedicated to the German people).
Widmen requires a dativ object in German.
See here for a detailed article about this inscription (unfortunately in German only).
Similar typical inscriptions are "Dem Gedenken an ...", "Den Opfern von ..." usw.
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,to dedicateis dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So,This parliament is dedicated to the German peoplebecomes'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object)and therefore,demis used.
– Siddhartha
yesterday
add a comment |
18
18
18
It's an ellipsis of
„Dieses Parlament ist dem deutschen Volk gewidmet“ (This parliament is dedicated to the German people).
Widmen requires a dativ object in German.
See here for a detailed article about this inscription (unfortunately in German only).
Similar typical inscriptions are "Dem Gedenken an ...", "Den Opfern von ..." usw.
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's an ellipsis of
„Dieses Parlament ist dem deutschen Volk gewidmet“ (This parliament is dedicated to the German people).
Widmen requires a dativ object in German.
See here for a detailed article about this inscription (unfortunately in German only).
Similar typical inscriptions are "Dem Gedenken an ...", "Den Opfern von ..." usw.
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
answered yesterday
StefStef
5416
5416
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New contributor
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Stef is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,to dedicateis dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So,This parliament is dedicated to the German peoplebecomes'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object)and therefore,demis used.
– Siddhartha
yesterday
add a comment |
1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,to dedicateis dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So,This parliament is dedicated to the German peoplebecomes'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object)and therefore,demis used.
– Siddhartha
yesterday
1
1
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,
to dedicate is dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So, This parliament is dedicated to the German people becomes 'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object) and therefore, dem is used.– Siddhartha
yesterday
I have a hard time memorizing dativ verbs, so I try to rationalize why they are dativ. In this case,
to dedicate is dativ it seems because there is an implied subject - someone must have done the dedication. So, This parliament is dedicated to the German people becomes 'We' (subject) dedicate 'this parliament' (direct object) to the German people (indirect object) and therefore, dem is used.– Siddhartha
yesterday
add a comment |
14
This is what's called a dativus finalis
It tends to denote purpose and thus means "this is for [the benefit of] the German people".
Latin knew the same notion, an example would be "tibi laetitiae", meaning something along the lines of "for your enjoyment".
A simple nominative wouldn't transport this meaning (rather, it wouldn't transport much meaning on a building).
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
add a comment |
14
This is what's called a dativus finalis
It tends to denote purpose and thus means "this is for [the benefit of] the German people".
Latin knew the same notion, an example would be "tibi laetitiae", meaning something along the lines of "for your enjoyment".
A simple nominative wouldn't transport this meaning (rather, it wouldn't transport much meaning on a building).
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
add a comment |
14
14
14
This is what's called a dativus finalis
It tends to denote purpose and thus means "this is for [the benefit of] the German people".
Latin knew the same notion, an example would be "tibi laetitiae", meaning something along the lines of "for your enjoyment".
A simple nominative wouldn't transport this meaning (rather, it wouldn't transport much meaning on a building).
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
This is what's called a dativus finalis
It tends to denote purpose and thus means "this is for [the benefit of] the German people".
Latin knew the same notion, an example would be "tibi laetitiae", meaning something along the lines of "for your enjoyment".
A simple nominative wouldn't transport this meaning (rather, it wouldn't transport much meaning on a building).
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
answered yesterday
tofrotofro
41.8k139126
41.8k139126
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
1
1
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
"A simple nominative wouldn't [...] transport much meaning on a building" The nominative would transport the meaning "this is the name of the building". So in this case, it would be "Reichstag".
– cbeleites
yesterday
3
3
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
@cbeleites Well obviously "Das deutsche Volk" would be the nominative inscription, which doesn't make a lot of sense to write onto a building.
– tofro
yesterday
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
-1. Only the Latin case is a dativus finalis, consisting of two datives tibi "to you" and laetitiae "to/for health". Try recasting the Latin in your own paraphrase of purpose: "This for the benefit of you for the benefit of health"?! Note that tibi is the dative of "you", not the dative of the possessive pronoun (which would be tuae).
– sgf
8 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@sgf I'm not getting your point. Are you assuming laetitiae is a dative? And, no, laetitia does not translate to "health".
– tofro
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
@tofro ah woops, of course laetitia is "enjoyment". But yes, I'm assuming laetitiae is a dative. Genitive would make no sense, and two datives are required for a dativus finalis.
– sgf
6 hours ago
add a comment |
-2
it's the same dative case as:
to whom it may concern ...
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
add a comment |
-2
it's the same dative case as:
to whom it may concern ...
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
add a comment |
-2
-2
-2
it's the same dative case as:
to whom it may concern ...
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
it's the same dative case as:
to whom it may concern ...
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
answered yesterday
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
48411
48411
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
add a comment |
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
4
4
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
No, it's not. The dative in to whom it may concern is caused by the preposition "to". That is something entirely different than a free-standing dative. Note it's not "zu dem deutschen Volke" on the Reichstag.
– tofro
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
I disagree. I have chosen this term to show that "dem deutschen Volke (gewidmet)" is an abbreviation like "to whom it may concern ..." . Whom is the pronoun for Volk, Vater and others ...The verb in this case might be "addressed" and could even be: the next song is "dedicated" to whom it may concern. The difference is only that in German you had to use the accusative (an wen, für wen).
– Albrecht Hügli
yesterday
add a comment |
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4
Nominativ would be das deutsche Volk
– Stef
yesterday
4
"Why the downvotes?" I didn't downvote, but I guess that in all questions of type "Why is XXX not used?" one should motivate why XXX should be used. The nominative case would mean "The German people", which would not make much sense in German nor in English. It would have even been better just to ask why there is the dative there.
– Trilarion
yesterday
Here's an example for a nominative goo.gl/maps/vBb8xaYzSs92: "Otto-Hahn-Bau der Freien Universität": nominative name of the building "Otto-Hahn-Bau" with a genitive "der Freien Universität" (building belongs to free university) (could be a dative as well - dative and genitive are indistinguishable - but I read it as denoting ownership by genitive rather than a dedication by dative). (I'd have thought there's a sign at the Bundeskanzleramt saying so - but didn't find an image)
– cbeleites
yesterday
4
@cbeleites: "Dem deutschen Volke" is not a building name (its name would be Reichstag here) but a dedication. Such a dedication could be anywhere, not only at buildings (typically at monuments).
– Stef
yesterday
1
@cbeleites: OK, didn't see this comment. Just wanted to prevent this thread from getting side-tracked.
– Stef
yesterday