Why does “at work” make as much sense as “working” in this sentence?
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I'm struggling to explain to someone why the following two sentences are both correct:
- "Students, though not necessarily working in the society, are also important members"
- "Students, though not necessarily at work in the society, are also important members"
As I understand it, "working" is a present participle, but what is "at work" best described as? Is it simply a preposition squished together with a verb, or is there a more specific grammatical name for the elements at play???
Thanks!
prepositions
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
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show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I'm struggling to explain to someone why the following two sentences are both correct:
- "Students, though not necessarily working in the society, are also important members"
- "Students, though not necessarily at work in the society, are also important members"
As I understand it, "working" is a present participle, but what is "at work" best described as? Is it simply a preposition squished together with a verb, or is there a more specific grammatical name for the elements at play???
Thanks!
prepositions
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I'm struggling to explain to someone why the following two sentences are both correct:
- "Students, though not necessarily working in the society, are also important members"
- "Students, though not necessarily at work in the society, are also important members"
As I understand it, "working" is a present participle, but what is "at work" best described as? Is it simply a preposition squished together with a verb, or is there a more specific grammatical name for the elements at play???
Thanks!
prepositions
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
I'm struggling to explain to someone why the following two sentences are both correct:
- "Students, though not necessarily working in the society, are also important members"
- "Students, though not necessarily at work in the society, are also important members"
As I understand it, "working" is a present participle, but what is "at work" best described as? Is it simply a preposition squished together with a verb, or is there a more specific grammatical name for the elements at play???
Thanks!
prepositions
prepositions
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
asked Oct 31 '17 at 1:04
Elaine
141
141
Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
|
show 1 more comment
Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
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oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
The phrase "at work" indicates a state in which the student is working at a job, not a generic activity. When someone is having dinner with the folks they are "at table". This is different than just being in proximity to furniture.
As a part of speech I don't have a better answer than yours but the difference is real.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
add a comment |
up vote
0
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I think the sentences mean different things. The first is ambiguous, it could be taken to mean that having students in the society is not working, whilst the second is clearly considering the work students do, or don't, put into it.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
Your real problem, Elaine, is that neither sentence properly expresses the idea you are trying to express.
It is very odd to say that a student is not working. That is what students are supposed to be doing! It is also a little odd to say that a student is “not at work”. If she is in a lecture, then she cannot be ‘at work’ at that time. That would means she has a job and is ‘at work’ at the time. So I guess you mean ‘is IN work’ (= ‘has a paid job’). The fact that a student is not in work does not mean she is not a useful member of society.
Forgive me, but I think English is not your first language. The tell tale word is ‘the’ before ‘society’. In most European languages other than English and Greek, abstract nouns have the definite article in front them: ‘la vie’, ‘la vita’ ... So you cannot say “in the society”. You should say “in society”.
The better way of saying it is:-
“Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society.”
“
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
The phrase "at work" indicates a state in which the student is working at a job, not a generic activity. When someone is having dinner with the folks they are "at table". This is different than just being in proximity to furniture.
As a part of speech I don't have a better answer than yours but the difference is real.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The phrase "at work" indicates a state in which the student is working at a job, not a generic activity. When someone is having dinner with the folks they are "at table". This is different than just being in proximity to furniture.
As a part of speech I don't have a better answer than yours but the difference is real.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The phrase "at work" indicates a state in which the student is working at a job, not a generic activity. When someone is having dinner with the folks they are "at table". This is different than just being in proximity to furniture.
As a part of speech I don't have a better answer than yours but the difference is real.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
The phrase "at work" indicates a state in which the student is working at a job, not a generic activity. When someone is having dinner with the folks they are "at table". This is different than just being in proximity to furniture.
As a part of speech I don't have a better answer than yours but the difference is real.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
answered Oct 31 '17 at 3:41
user2863749
30515
30515
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I think the sentences mean different things. The first is ambiguous, it could be taken to mean that having students in the society is not working, whilst the second is clearly considering the work students do, or don't, put into it.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I think the sentences mean different things. The first is ambiguous, it could be taken to mean that having students in the society is not working, whilst the second is clearly considering the work students do, or don't, put into it.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I think the sentences mean different things. The first is ambiguous, it could be taken to mean that having students in the society is not working, whilst the second is clearly considering the work students do, or don't, put into it.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
I think the sentences mean different things. The first is ambiguous, it could be taken to mean that having students in the society is not working, whilst the second is clearly considering the work students do, or don't, put into it.
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
answered Oct 31 '17 at 17:21
p edant
711
711
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
Your real problem, Elaine, is that neither sentence properly expresses the idea you are trying to express.
It is very odd to say that a student is not working. That is what students are supposed to be doing! It is also a little odd to say that a student is “not at work”. If she is in a lecture, then she cannot be ‘at work’ at that time. That would means she has a job and is ‘at work’ at the time. So I guess you mean ‘is IN work’ (= ‘has a paid job’). The fact that a student is not in work does not mean she is not a useful member of society.
Forgive me, but I think English is not your first language. The tell tale word is ‘the’ before ‘society’. In most European languages other than English and Greek, abstract nouns have the definite article in front them: ‘la vie’, ‘la vita’ ... So you cannot say “in the society”. You should say “in society”.
The better way of saying it is:-
“Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society.”
“
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
-1
down vote
Your real problem, Elaine, is that neither sentence properly expresses the idea you are trying to express.
It is very odd to say that a student is not working. That is what students are supposed to be doing! It is also a little odd to say that a student is “not at work”. If she is in a lecture, then she cannot be ‘at work’ at that time. That would means she has a job and is ‘at work’ at the time. So I guess you mean ‘is IN work’ (= ‘has a paid job’). The fact that a student is not in work does not mean she is not a useful member of society.
Forgive me, but I think English is not your first language. The tell tale word is ‘the’ before ‘society’. In most European languages other than English and Greek, abstract nouns have the definite article in front them: ‘la vie’, ‘la vita’ ... So you cannot say “in the society”. You should say “in society”.
The better way of saying it is:-
“Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society.”
“
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
Your real problem, Elaine, is that neither sentence properly expresses the idea you are trying to express.
It is very odd to say that a student is not working. That is what students are supposed to be doing! It is also a little odd to say that a student is “not at work”. If she is in a lecture, then she cannot be ‘at work’ at that time. That would means she has a job and is ‘at work’ at the time. So I guess you mean ‘is IN work’ (= ‘has a paid job’). The fact that a student is not in work does not mean she is not a useful member of society.
Forgive me, but I think English is not your first language. The tell tale word is ‘the’ before ‘society’. In most European languages other than English and Greek, abstract nouns have the definite article in front them: ‘la vie’, ‘la vita’ ... So you cannot say “in the society”. You should say “in society”.
The better way of saying it is:-
“Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society.”
“
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
Your real problem, Elaine, is that neither sentence properly expresses the idea you are trying to express.
It is very odd to say that a student is not working. That is what students are supposed to be doing! It is also a little odd to say that a student is “not at work”. If she is in a lecture, then she cannot be ‘at work’ at that time. That would means she has a job and is ‘at work’ at the time. So I guess you mean ‘is IN work’ (= ‘has a paid job’). The fact that a student is not in work does not mean she is not a useful member of society.
Forgive me, but I think English is not your first language. The tell tale word is ‘the’ before ‘society’. In most European languages other than English and Greek, abstract nouns have the definite article in front them: ‘la vie’, ‘la vita’ ... So you cannot say “in the society”. You should say “in society”.
The better way of saying it is:-
“Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society.”
“
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
answered Nov 30 '17 at 23:10
Tuffy
3,1521617
3,1521617
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
|
show 1 more comment
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
1
1
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
Is this a BrE thing? i am not aware of anyone in AmE who would use the term in work to mean “has a paid job”. We would say employed. “in work” sounds like “not fully developed- still in the process of being created”
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:01
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
@Jim It must be as you say. The press, statisticians and Government departments, as well as politicians, constantly speak of people ‘in work’ and ‘out of work’. It is not necessarily exactly the same as ‘unemployed’. But they are similar.
– Tuffy
Apr 30 at 23:11
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Interesting now that you point it out- we do say “out of work” ...
– Jim
Apr 30 at 23:15
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
Wait, wait wait please. The better way of saying it is:- “Students, though not necessarily in work, are still useful members of society sounds like though the students do not study, they are important in the society. Am I wrong here?
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
@KentaroTomono “To be IN work” is to be engaged in some form of paid employment, including self-employment. The fact that a student is not ‘in work’ does not imply that he or she is not working: a student works by studying; carers work by caring for their children or an ageing child. Neither is described as IN work.
– Tuffy
Jun 30 at 20:28
|
show 1 more comment
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Used without a helping verb, the present participle functions as an adjective. In your example, if it weren't for the syntactically irrelevant in the society, I might expect in work rather than at work. If a college made special arrangements for in-work students they'd often be hyphenated in that sequence, but not when referring to them as students in work (i.e. employed, with a job).
– FumbleFingers
Dec 2 '17 at 17:24
Collins have good examples showing the different meanings the fixed phrase 'at work' is used with. It's a prepositional phrase, but the example 'He's not in at the moment – he's at work' uses a more spatially tied prepositional sense than 'They are at work trying to overthrow the dictator' does. Though 'work' here certainly invokes action / taking a stance, it would not be analysed as a verb.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:40
Please include the research you’ve done.
– Edwin Ashworth
Dec 2 '17 at 17:45
Even though not a native speaker I am, the difference is clear. 1 conveys "Students who are not required to work in society are also important members. Whereas, 2 conveys somewhat vague. If I hear the sentence, I would probably ask "what work? Do you have a job? Or do you mean your work ( homework )?"
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 15:57
Can not upvote any of answers sorry.
– Kentaro Tomono
Jun 30 at 16:46