Why has the 777x been designed with folding wingtips?
I recently visited the Boeing factory outside Seattle, WA and noted in the distance a new 777x being built with, what looked like very large wingtips.
However, on closer inspection they're not - the ends of the wings are designed to fold up.
Source: aviation today
I didn't get a chance to ask our tour guide, so I was wondering if anyone here can explain why this aircraft has been designed with folding wingtips. I'm presuming this is only for ground operations, and my guess is something to do with size - but are they really so big that they need to fold up? I would have imagined that other large wide body jetliners would have similar dimensions.
Please note that I'm not asking about whether this should have winglets, or if winglets provide any benefits, I'm asking specifically why the ends of these wings fold up rather than just fixed as per previous 777 models.
aircraft-design boeing boeing-777
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
add a comment |
I recently visited the Boeing factory outside Seattle, WA and noted in the distance a new 777x being built with, what looked like very large wingtips.
However, on closer inspection they're not - the ends of the wings are designed to fold up.
Source: aviation today
I didn't get a chance to ask our tour guide, so I was wondering if anyone here can explain why this aircraft has been designed with folding wingtips. I'm presuming this is only for ground operations, and my guess is something to do with size - but are they really so big that they need to fold up? I would have imagined that other large wide body jetliners would have similar dimensions.
Please note that I'm not asking about whether this should have winglets, or if winglets provide any benefits, I'm asking specifically why the ends of these wings fold up rather than just fixed as per previous 777 models.
aircraft-design boeing boeing-777
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
1
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
2
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51
add a comment |
I recently visited the Boeing factory outside Seattle, WA and noted in the distance a new 777x being built with, what looked like very large wingtips.
However, on closer inspection they're not - the ends of the wings are designed to fold up.
Source: aviation today
I didn't get a chance to ask our tour guide, so I was wondering if anyone here can explain why this aircraft has been designed with folding wingtips. I'm presuming this is only for ground operations, and my guess is something to do with size - but are they really so big that they need to fold up? I would have imagined that other large wide body jetliners would have similar dimensions.
Please note that I'm not asking about whether this should have winglets, or if winglets provide any benefits, I'm asking specifically why the ends of these wings fold up rather than just fixed as per previous 777 models.
aircraft-design boeing boeing-777
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
I recently visited the Boeing factory outside Seattle, WA and noted in the distance a new 777x being built with, what looked like very large wingtips.
However, on closer inspection they're not - the ends of the wings are designed to fold up.
Source: aviation today
I didn't get a chance to ask our tour guide, so I was wondering if anyone here can explain why this aircraft has been designed with folding wingtips. I'm presuming this is only for ground operations, and my guess is something to do with size - but are they really so big that they need to fold up? I would have imagined that other large wide body jetliners would have similar dimensions.
Please note that I'm not asking about whether this should have winglets, or if winglets provide any benefits, I'm asking specifically why the ends of these wings fold up rather than just fixed as per previous 777 models.
aircraft-design boeing boeing-777
aircraft-design boeing boeing-777
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
edited Dec 18 at 15:15
fooot
51.4k17166311
51.4k17166311
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
asked Dec 17 at 16:33
Jamiec♦
14.5k35989
14.5k35989
I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
1
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
2
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51
add a comment |
I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
1
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
2
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51
I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
1
1
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
2
2
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The Boeing 777X website states that this is to enable a more efficient wing (read: wider span) while maintaining the airport gate and taxi footprint of the classic 777 (which ensures airlines can use the 777X on roughly the same airports and intermix operations with the classic fleet).
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
add a comment |
Many modern aircraft have been designed with winglets, and older ones have been retrofitted with them. They allow a wing to produce more lift with less drag. However, the benefit is even greater if the wingspan is simply extended.
The downside of increasing wingspan is that wingspan affects many aspects of airport infrastructure, especially taxiways and gates. FAA Advisory Circular 150/5300-13 covers airport design, and includes an "Airplane Design Group" categorization, from I to VI. Group V has an upper cutoff of 214 feet (65 m) wingspan.
The 777-200LR and 777-300ER have the largest wingspan of the existing 777 family, at 212 ft 7 in. The 777X will have a wingspan of 212 ft 9 in when the wingtips are folded. This ensures that the 777X will be able to fit on every taxiway and into every gate that the current 777 can, while gaining the benefits of an increased wingspan in flight with the wingtips folded down.
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
add a comment |
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex. So, take of and landing planes can be stacked closer together without encountering wake turbulence.
Then fold them out in the cruise to benefit from the bigger wing area.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortexthis is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)
– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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The Boeing 777X website states that this is to enable a more efficient wing (read: wider span) while maintaining the airport gate and taxi footprint of the classic 777 (which ensures airlines can use the 777X on roughly the same airports and intermix operations with the classic fleet).
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
add a comment |
The Boeing 777X website states that this is to enable a more efficient wing (read: wider span) while maintaining the airport gate and taxi footprint of the classic 777 (which ensures airlines can use the 777X on roughly the same airports and intermix operations with the classic fleet).
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
add a comment |
The Boeing 777X website states that this is to enable a more efficient wing (read: wider span) while maintaining the airport gate and taxi footprint of the classic 777 (which ensures airlines can use the 777X on roughly the same airports and intermix operations with the classic fleet).
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
The Boeing 777X website states that this is to enable a more efficient wing (read: wider span) while maintaining the airport gate and taxi footprint of the classic 777 (which ensures airlines can use the 777X on roughly the same airports and intermix operations with the classic fleet).
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
answered Dec 17 at 17:22
Cpt Reynolds
2,60111015
2,60111015
add a comment |
add a comment |
Many modern aircraft have been designed with winglets, and older ones have been retrofitted with them. They allow a wing to produce more lift with less drag. However, the benefit is even greater if the wingspan is simply extended.
The downside of increasing wingspan is that wingspan affects many aspects of airport infrastructure, especially taxiways and gates. FAA Advisory Circular 150/5300-13 covers airport design, and includes an "Airplane Design Group" categorization, from I to VI. Group V has an upper cutoff of 214 feet (65 m) wingspan.
The 777-200LR and 777-300ER have the largest wingspan of the existing 777 family, at 212 ft 7 in. The 777X will have a wingspan of 212 ft 9 in when the wingtips are folded. This ensures that the 777X will be able to fit on every taxiway and into every gate that the current 777 can, while gaining the benefits of an increased wingspan in flight with the wingtips folded down.
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
add a comment |
Many modern aircraft have been designed with winglets, and older ones have been retrofitted with them. They allow a wing to produce more lift with less drag. However, the benefit is even greater if the wingspan is simply extended.
The downside of increasing wingspan is that wingspan affects many aspects of airport infrastructure, especially taxiways and gates. FAA Advisory Circular 150/5300-13 covers airport design, and includes an "Airplane Design Group" categorization, from I to VI. Group V has an upper cutoff of 214 feet (65 m) wingspan.
The 777-200LR and 777-300ER have the largest wingspan of the existing 777 family, at 212 ft 7 in. The 777X will have a wingspan of 212 ft 9 in when the wingtips are folded. This ensures that the 777X will be able to fit on every taxiway and into every gate that the current 777 can, while gaining the benefits of an increased wingspan in flight with the wingtips folded down.
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
add a comment |
Many modern aircraft have been designed with winglets, and older ones have been retrofitted with them. They allow a wing to produce more lift with less drag. However, the benefit is even greater if the wingspan is simply extended.
The downside of increasing wingspan is that wingspan affects many aspects of airport infrastructure, especially taxiways and gates. FAA Advisory Circular 150/5300-13 covers airport design, and includes an "Airplane Design Group" categorization, from I to VI. Group V has an upper cutoff of 214 feet (65 m) wingspan.
The 777-200LR and 777-300ER have the largest wingspan of the existing 777 family, at 212 ft 7 in. The 777X will have a wingspan of 212 ft 9 in when the wingtips are folded. This ensures that the 777X will be able to fit on every taxiway and into every gate that the current 777 can, while gaining the benefits of an increased wingspan in flight with the wingtips folded down.
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
Many modern aircraft have been designed with winglets, and older ones have been retrofitted with them. They allow a wing to produce more lift with less drag. However, the benefit is even greater if the wingspan is simply extended.
The downside of increasing wingspan is that wingspan affects many aspects of airport infrastructure, especially taxiways and gates. FAA Advisory Circular 150/5300-13 covers airport design, and includes an "Airplane Design Group" categorization, from I to VI. Group V has an upper cutoff of 214 feet (65 m) wingspan.
The 777-200LR and 777-300ER have the largest wingspan of the existing 777 family, at 212 ft 7 in. The 777X will have a wingspan of 212 ft 9 in when the wingtips are folded. This ensures that the 777X will be able to fit on every taxiway and into every gate that the current 777 can, while gaining the benefits of an increased wingspan in flight with the wingtips folded down.
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
edited Dec 17 at 19:58
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
answered Dec 17 at 17:31
fooot
51.4k17166311
51.4k17166311
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
add a comment |
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
8
8
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
Exactly. The folding wingtips allows the 777X to use stands and taxiways designed for ADG V aircraft, rather than needing ADG VI stands and taxiways like the A380 and 747-8. Even airports designed to accommodate A380s and 747-8s still typically have far more ADG V stands than ADG VI stands. ADG VI is basically just the 747-8 and A380, while ADG V is all 777s, 787s, A330s, A350s, and 747s prior to the -8. Bumping the 777X into ADG VI would have been a massive cost increase to operators, making the aircraft much less competitive.
– reirab
Dec 17 at 22:08
1
1
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
But will the folded wingtips unfold in the air during flight or do they stay folded?
– undefined
Dec 18 at 10:52
1
1
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
They would unfold on the ground when it's safe during taxi operations but before entering the runway. This ensures that the crew can confirm they are locked in place without running the risk of interfering in airport operations by taking up an active runway.
– NetworkLlama
Dec 18 at 14:38
add a comment |
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex. So, take of and landing planes can be stacked closer together without encountering wake turbulence.
Then fold them out in the cruise to benefit from the bigger wing area.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortexthis is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)
– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
add a comment |
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex. So, take of and landing planes can be stacked closer together without encountering wake turbulence.
Then fold them out in the cruise to benefit from the bigger wing area.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortexthis is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)
– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
add a comment |
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex. So, take of and landing planes can be stacked closer together without encountering wake turbulence.
Then fold them out in the cruise to benefit from the bigger wing area.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex. So, take of and landing planes can be stacked closer together without encountering wake turbulence.
Then fold them out in the cruise to benefit from the bigger wing area.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
answered Dec 18 at 12:34
user36137
1
1
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
user36137 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortexthis is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)
– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
add a comment |
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortexthis is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)
– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
1
1
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex this is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
Folding them up reduces wing tip vortex this is the opposite of true. (nevermind that the wingtips don't fold or unfold in flight)– Jules
Dec 18 at 15:09
add a comment |
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I think (which is why this isn't an answer) is that they need to fit into certain stands, otherwise they could use larger (more expensive) stands that have less density. Here is a video about the 777x folding wingtips.
– Ron Beyer
Dec 17 at 16:38
1
Closely related and might even answer this?
– Pondlife
Dec 17 at 20:25
2
Only way it would fit through the factory doors ;)
– Harper
Dec 17 at 21:51