What place on Earth is closest to the Sun?
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What is the location on Earth that is closest to the Sun?
I've seen this question asked many times, and answered in varied and contradictory ways:
The most common answer is “the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador”. This volcano is the point on Earth's surface that is furthest from the center of Earth, and that is then equated to being the closest to the Sun.
This is very commonly spoken of around the Chimborazo volcano area and among the people involved with tourism there (here is an example of this answer)Others argue that it is Cayambe volcano in Ecuador, it being the highest point along the equatorial line (answer example).
Others say Mount Everest in Nepal/China because it is the highest point on Earth (example).
And others argue it is Sairecabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, because it is the highest point at the latitude which is closest to the Sun on January 5th, when the perihelion happens (i.e. the point in Earth's orbit that is closest to the sun) (example).
A fifth answer, with the same logic as the previous, is Licancabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, which quite as close to the latitude of the perihelion but is significantly higher than Sairecabur.
What is the correct answer and why?
What place on Earth is closest to the Sun?
geography earth-system astronomy orbit geodesy
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show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
What is the location on Earth that is closest to the Sun?
I've seen this question asked many times, and answered in varied and contradictory ways:
The most common answer is “the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador”. This volcano is the point on Earth's surface that is furthest from the center of Earth, and that is then equated to being the closest to the Sun.
This is very commonly spoken of around the Chimborazo volcano area and among the people involved with tourism there (here is an example of this answer)Others argue that it is Cayambe volcano in Ecuador, it being the highest point along the equatorial line (answer example).
Others say Mount Everest in Nepal/China because it is the highest point on Earth (example).
And others argue it is Sairecabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, because it is the highest point at the latitude which is closest to the Sun on January 5th, when the perihelion happens (i.e. the point in Earth's orbit that is closest to the sun) (example).
A fifth answer, with the same logic as the previous, is Licancabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, which quite as close to the latitude of the perihelion but is significantly higher than Sairecabur.
What is the correct answer and why?
What place on Earth is closest to the Sun?
geography earth-system astronomy orbit geodesy
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23
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You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
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– Spencer
2 days ago
2
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@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
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– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
3
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Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
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– Mazura
2 days ago
9
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What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
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– Mazura
2 days ago
6
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Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
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– gerrit♦
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
What is the location on Earth that is closest to the Sun?
I've seen this question asked many times, and answered in varied and contradictory ways:
The most common answer is “the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador”. This volcano is the point on Earth's surface that is furthest from the center of Earth, and that is then equated to being the closest to the Sun.
This is very commonly spoken of around the Chimborazo volcano area and among the people involved with tourism there (here is an example of this answer)Others argue that it is Cayambe volcano in Ecuador, it being the highest point along the equatorial line (answer example).
Others say Mount Everest in Nepal/China because it is the highest point on Earth (example).
And others argue it is Sairecabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, because it is the highest point at the latitude which is closest to the Sun on January 5th, when the perihelion happens (i.e. the point in Earth's orbit that is closest to the sun) (example).
A fifth answer, with the same logic as the previous, is Licancabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, which quite as close to the latitude of the perihelion but is significantly higher than Sairecabur.
What is the correct answer and why?
What place on Earth is closest to the Sun?
geography earth-system astronomy orbit geodesy
$endgroup$
What is the location on Earth that is closest to the Sun?
I've seen this question asked many times, and answered in varied and contradictory ways:
The most common answer is “the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador”. This volcano is the point on Earth's surface that is furthest from the center of Earth, and that is then equated to being the closest to the Sun.
This is very commonly spoken of around the Chimborazo volcano area and among the people involved with tourism there (here is an example of this answer)Others argue that it is Cayambe volcano in Ecuador, it being the highest point along the equatorial line (answer example).
Others say Mount Everest in Nepal/China because it is the highest point on Earth (example).
And others argue it is Sairecabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, because it is the highest point at the latitude which is closest to the Sun on January 5th, when the perihelion happens (i.e. the point in Earth's orbit that is closest to the sun) (example).
A fifth answer, with the same logic as the previous, is Licancabur volcano in Chile/Bolivia, which quite as close to the latitude of the perihelion but is significantly higher than Sairecabur.
What is the correct answer and why?
What place on Earth is closest to the Sun?
geography earth-system astronomy orbit geodesy
geography earth-system astronomy orbit geodesy
edited 2 days ago
JeopardyTempest
5,09631036
5,09631036
asked 2 days ago
Camilo RadaCamilo Rada
8,71532966
8,71532966
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You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
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– Spencer
2 days ago
2
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@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
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– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
3
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Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
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– Mazura
2 days ago
9
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What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
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– Mazura
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
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– gerrit♦
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
23
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You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
$endgroup$
– Spencer
2 days ago
2
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@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
23
23
$begingroup$
You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
$endgroup$
– Spencer
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
$endgroup$
– Spencer
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
9
9
$begingroup$
What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
$begingroup$
What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
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– gerrit♦
2 days ago
|
show 7 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
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This is an interesting question, but it lacks a key factor that is crucial to the answer: TIME.
The point on Earth closest to the Sun varies through time, so the question can be asked about any moment in time, or over periods of time. Let's analyze the factors involved.
At any given moment in time, the point on Earth's surface that is closer to the Sun is what is called the “subsolar point”. This point corresponds to the point of the surface that intersects the imaginary line that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. In other words, the subsolar point correspond to the point on Earth surface where the sunlight hits the Earth perpendicular to the ground, therefore, a vertical object would project no shadow.
(image from Wikipedia: subsolar point)
The longitude of the subsolar point, corresponds to that of the meridian experiencing solar noon. Over Greenwich (longitude 0°) that happens at the actual noon, and as the Earth rotates 15° every hour, that will happen one our later (at 13:00 h UTC) at longitude 15° W, two hours later (at 14:00 h UTC) at longitude 30° W, and so on. In general terms, you can use the following formula for the subsolar point longitude ($text{SSP}_{text{long}}$).
$text{SSP}_{text{long}} = left(text{UTC} -12right)*15°$
This is a simplified formula, but accurate enough for our purpose. Let's take as an example the following date
July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC
In that moment, the longitude of the subsolar point was 124° 15' West:
$(20+(17/60)-12)*15°=124.25°=124°15'$
Finding the latitude of the subsolar point is a bit more complicated, we need to know the declination of the Sun. Declination is the equivalent of latitude for celestial coordinates. For that, use a formula, a table, or a online calculator like the NOAA Solar Position Calculator.
Just enter the date, and even that the location doesn't matter here, we need to select “Enter Lat/Long -->” to be allowed to enter the offset to UTC as 0, otherwise the time won't be interpreted as UTC time.
From there we can find that the solar declination for our example date is 20.58° (20° 34') which corresponds to the latitude of the subsolar point: 20° 34' North.
Therefore, on July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC, the subsolar point was at 20° 34' N, 124° 15' W, which is somewhere between Mexico and Hawaii. That was the point on Earth closest to the Sun at that moment.
Now, what would happen if there were a very tall mountain close to the subsolar point? Would that mountain be closer to the Sun?
The answer is: probably. It depends on how far and how much higher it is relative to the subsolar point.
We can do a quick calculation based on the following diagram (in this approximation we assume that Earth is spherical, that the sun is infinitely far away and other simplifications)
From there we have
$r-r'=Delta H$
$D = r ~ theta$ ($theta$ in radians)
$frac{r'}{r}=cos(theta)$
After some algebra you can write that the extra height $Delta H$ needed to be as close to the Sun as the subsolar point is
$Delta H = r left(1-cosleft(frac{D}{r}right)right)$
Where $D$ is the distance and $r$ is Earth's radius (in this case makes sense to use the equatorial radius of 6378.1 km)
If we plot this equation we get the following
(the vertical axis is logarithmic)
We can see that around 10 km away from the subsolar point, ~10 meters are enough to be closer than it to the Sun. ~30 meters at 20 km, ~800 meters at 100 km, ~3,000 m at 200 km, and if you go further than 340 km, not even Mount Everest will get you closer to the Sun.
So, the closest point to the Sun will be whatever geographical feature that maximizes the value $text{Altitude}-Delta H$, where $text{Altitude}$ is the altitude of the geographical feature. Let's call that point “proxisolar” point. I just made up that name, but it will be handy for the following discussion.
Now that we understand the basis to establish what is the closest point to the Sun at a given moment, we can tackle the question that probably most people meant when asking this question:
What is the point on Earth that gets closer to the Sun over a year?
The most important fact to keep in mind, is that the variations of the distance between the Earth and the Sun over the year dwarf any topographical feature and even the diameter of the Earth itself. Earth’s distance from the Sun (center-to-center) varies from 147,098,074 km at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). Therefore, the difference is 5 million kilometers!.
The perihelion happens around January 4th, when the solar declination is about -23°, therefore, the latitude of the subsolar point is around 23° South. That rules out Chimborazo, Cayambe and Everest, because they are too far to be the “proxisolar” point. In contrast, Sairecabur (5,971 m at 22.72° S) and Licancabur (5,916m at 22.83° S) are reasonable contestants.
The problem is that the perihelion happens on different days of the year and at different times of the day every year, so the point that gets closer to the Sun on a given year is just the one that happen to be the “proxisolar point” at the time of the Perihelion.
People who argues that Sairecabur or Licancabur are the points that get closer to the Sun, are implicitly assuming that the distance Earth-Sun doesn't vary much during the day of the perihelion. Therefore, the extra elevation of these mountains allows them to get closer to the Sun during that day. Unfortunately, that assumption is completely wrong. Let's see why:
An approximation of the distance Earth-Sun can be obtain from the following formula
$d = frac{a(1-e^2)}{1+e cosleft(text{days}frac{360}{365.25}right)}$
Where $a$ is the semi-major axis of Earth's orbit, $e$ is the eccentricity, and $text{days}$ is the number of days elapsed since the perihelion. To see the simplifications behind this equation look here (note that the conversion factor 360/365.25 is erroneously inverted in that link, thanks @PM2Ring for spotting that).
If you solve the above equation for the perihelion and for one day before/after it, you will get that the difference is 358 km, and for half a day you get 89 km. Therefore, if the subsolar point happens on the opposite side of the Earth than, let's say, Licancabur volcano, this volcano would need to be 89 km higher that the subsolar point to get closer than it to the Sun that year. 89 kilometers!
Therefore, we can discard the idea that a given mountain could be the point that gets closer to the Sun on EVERY year.
If we plot the above equation with distances relative to the perihelion we get the following (using $a$ and $e$ from here)
Here we can see, that if the perihelion happen a bit more than 3 hours before or after the solar noon at Licancabur, the ~6,000 m of elevation advantage would not be enough to get closer to the Sun than the subsolar point at the perihelion, even if such point is at sea level.
Note that three hours corresponds to 45° in Latitude, which at that approximate latitude corresponds to approximately 4,600 km.
Therefore, it can be argued that Licancabur is the point on Earth that have more chances to be the closest to the Sun on an arbitrary year. But on a given year, it might or might not be the closest depending on where the subsolar point is at the moment of the perihelion.
Finally, it is important to note that the distance Earth-Sun at the perihelion varies widely from year to year. If you look at this table of perihelions between years 2001 and 2100, you will see that perihelions often vary by several thousand of kilometers.
Therefore, for example between years 2001 and 2100, the closest perihelion by far is the perihelion of next year (2020), and it will happen when the subsolar point is in the middle of the Indian ocean, about 12,700 km away from Licancabur and Sairecabur volcanoes. Therefore, the point that will be closest to the Sun this century will be one in the middle of the Indian ocean about 320 km south of Rodrigues Island.
Said this, the question of which point on Earth will get closer to the Sun depends on the period of time on which it is considered. For each year, each century and any other arbitrary period of time, the answer will be different.
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Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
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– Mazura
2 days ago
10
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@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
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– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
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Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
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– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
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Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
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– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
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wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
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– craq
2 days ago
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show 4 more comments
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It is impossible to know. Solar flares can have more than 500,000 kilometers. So if we consider them part of the sun, the moment when the earth is closer to the sun can be very different from perihelion if a big flare happens, making much of what was discussed in other answers irrelevant.
New contributor
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You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
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– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
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The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
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– WBT
9 hours ago
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A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
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– JiK
5 hours ago
1
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And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
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– JiK
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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The point on the surface of the Earth where the Sun is currently immediately overhead is called the Zenith Point. Its Latitude and Longitude correspond to the Declination and Greenwich Hour Angle of the Sun.
These data points can be approximated to any degree of accuracy and timeframe by a Fourier series of n terms. Accuracy sufficient for sextant work for the current decade can be achieved with a Fourier series of 7 terms). These terms are published in nautical almanacs.
New contributor
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Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
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– JBentley
2 days ago
2
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The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
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– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
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– Mazura
yesterday
add a comment |
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Whichever spot on the surface of the Earth is experiencing Lahaina Noon, or would be if it wasn't cloudy, is at the subsolar point and pointed directly at the Sun, moreso than any other point on Earth at that moment. Of course, you could get closer to the sun by climbing higher.
If you were able to be at the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador (point furthest from the center of Earth) at Lahaina Noon at perihelion, that would be as close to the Sun as you can get and still be on the surface of the Earth. You'd probably have to be very lucky or extremely patient for that to happen, though.
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You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
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– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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$begingroup$
This is an interesting question, but it lacks a key factor that is crucial to the answer: TIME.
The point on Earth closest to the Sun varies through time, so the question can be asked about any moment in time, or over periods of time. Let's analyze the factors involved.
At any given moment in time, the point on Earth's surface that is closer to the Sun is what is called the “subsolar point”. This point corresponds to the point of the surface that intersects the imaginary line that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. In other words, the subsolar point correspond to the point on Earth surface where the sunlight hits the Earth perpendicular to the ground, therefore, a vertical object would project no shadow.
(image from Wikipedia: subsolar point)
The longitude of the subsolar point, corresponds to that of the meridian experiencing solar noon. Over Greenwich (longitude 0°) that happens at the actual noon, and as the Earth rotates 15° every hour, that will happen one our later (at 13:00 h UTC) at longitude 15° W, two hours later (at 14:00 h UTC) at longitude 30° W, and so on. In general terms, you can use the following formula for the subsolar point longitude ($text{SSP}_{text{long}}$).
$text{SSP}_{text{long}} = left(text{UTC} -12right)*15°$
This is a simplified formula, but accurate enough for our purpose. Let's take as an example the following date
July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC
In that moment, the longitude of the subsolar point was 124° 15' West:
$(20+(17/60)-12)*15°=124.25°=124°15'$
Finding the latitude of the subsolar point is a bit more complicated, we need to know the declination of the Sun. Declination is the equivalent of latitude for celestial coordinates. For that, use a formula, a table, or a online calculator like the NOAA Solar Position Calculator.
Just enter the date, and even that the location doesn't matter here, we need to select “Enter Lat/Long -->” to be allowed to enter the offset to UTC as 0, otherwise the time won't be interpreted as UTC time.
From there we can find that the solar declination for our example date is 20.58° (20° 34') which corresponds to the latitude of the subsolar point: 20° 34' North.
Therefore, on July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC, the subsolar point was at 20° 34' N, 124° 15' W, which is somewhere between Mexico and Hawaii. That was the point on Earth closest to the Sun at that moment.
Now, what would happen if there were a very tall mountain close to the subsolar point? Would that mountain be closer to the Sun?
The answer is: probably. It depends on how far and how much higher it is relative to the subsolar point.
We can do a quick calculation based on the following diagram (in this approximation we assume that Earth is spherical, that the sun is infinitely far away and other simplifications)
From there we have
$r-r'=Delta H$
$D = r ~ theta$ ($theta$ in radians)
$frac{r'}{r}=cos(theta)$
After some algebra you can write that the extra height $Delta H$ needed to be as close to the Sun as the subsolar point is
$Delta H = r left(1-cosleft(frac{D}{r}right)right)$
Where $D$ is the distance and $r$ is Earth's radius (in this case makes sense to use the equatorial radius of 6378.1 km)
If we plot this equation we get the following
(the vertical axis is logarithmic)
We can see that around 10 km away from the subsolar point, ~10 meters are enough to be closer than it to the Sun. ~30 meters at 20 km, ~800 meters at 100 km, ~3,000 m at 200 km, and if you go further than 340 km, not even Mount Everest will get you closer to the Sun.
So, the closest point to the Sun will be whatever geographical feature that maximizes the value $text{Altitude}-Delta H$, where $text{Altitude}$ is the altitude of the geographical feature. Let's call that point “proxisolar” point. I just made up that name, but it will be handy for the following discussion.
Now that we understand the basis to establish what is the closest point to the Sun at a given moment, we can tackle the question that probably most people meant when asking this question:
What is the point on Earth that gets closer to the Sun over a year?
The most important fact to keep in mind, is that the variations of the distance between the Earth and the Sun over the year dwarf any topographical feature and even the diameter of the Earth itself. Earth’s distance from the Sun (center-to-center) varies from 147,098,074 km at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). Therefore, the difference is 5 million kilometers!.
The perihelion happens around January 4th, when the solar declination is about -23°, therefore, the latitude of the subsolar point is around 23° South. That rules out Chimborazo, Cayambe and Everest, because they are too far to be the “proxisolar” point. In contrast, Sairecabur (5,971 m at 22.72° S) and Licancabur (5,916m at 22.83° S) are reasonable contestants.
The problem is that the perihelion happens on different days of the year and at different times of the day every year, so the point that gets closer to the Sun on a given year is just the one that happen to be the “proxisolar point” at the time of the Perihelion.
People who argues that Sairecabur or Licancabur are the points that get closer to the Sun, are implicitly assuming that the distance Earth-Sun doesn't vary much during the day of the perihelion. Therefore, the extra elevation of these mountains allows them to get closer to the Sun during that day. Unfortunately, that assumption is completely wrong. Let's see why:
An approximation of the distance Earth-Sun can be obtain from the following formula
$d = frac{a(1-e^2)}{1+e cosleft(text{days}frac{360}{365.25}right)}$
Where $a$ is the semi-major axis of Earth's orbit, $e$ is the eccentricity, and $text{days}$ is the number of days elapsed since the perihelion. To see the simplifications behind this equation look here (note that the conversion factor 360/365.25 is erroneously inverted in that link, thanks @PM2Ring for spotting that).
If you solve the above equation for the perihelion and for one day before/after it, you will get that the difference is 358 km, and for half a day you get 89 km. Therefore, if the subsolar point happens on the opposite side of the Earth than, let's say, Licancabur volcano, this volcano would need to be 89 km higher that the subsolar point to get closer than it to the Sun that year. 89 kilometers!
Therefore, we can discard the idea that a given mountain could be the point that gets closer to the Sun on EVERY year.
If we plot the above equation with distances relative to the perihelion we get the following (using $a$ and $e$ from here)
Here we can see, that if the perihelion happen a bit more than 3 hours before or after the solar noon at Licancabur, the ~6,000 m of elevation advantage would not be enough to get closer to the Sun than the subsolar point at the perihelion, even if such point is at sea level.
Note that three hours corresponds to 45° in Latitude, which at that approximate latitude corresponds to approximately 4,600 km.
Therefore, it can be argued that Licancabur is the point on Earth that have more chances to be the closest to the Sun on an arbitrary year. But on a given year, it might or might not be the closest depending on where the subsolar point is at the moment of the perihelion.
Finally, it is important to note that the distance Earth-Sun at the perihelion varies widely from year to year. If you look at this table of perihelions between years 2001 and 2100, you will see that perihelions often vary by several thousand of kilometers.
Therefore, for example between years 2001 and 2100, the closest perihelion by far is the perihelion of next year (2020), and it will happen when the subsolar point is in the middle of the Indian ocean, about 12,700 km away from Licancabur and Sairecabur volcanoes. Therefore, the point that will be closest to the Sun this century will be one in the middle of the Indian ocean about 320 km south of Rodrigues Island.
Said this, the question of which point on Earth will get closer to the Sun depends on the period of time on which it is considered. For each year, each century and any other arbitrary period of time, the answer will be different.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
This is an interesting question, but it lacks a key factor that is crucial to the answer: TIME.
The point on Earth closest to the Sun varies through time, so the question can be asked about any moment in time, or over periods of time. Let's analyze the factors involved.
At any given moment in time, the point on Earth's surface that is closer to the Sun is what is called the “subsolar point”. This point corresponds to the point of the surface that intersects the imaginary line that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. In other words, the subsolar point correspond to the point on Earth surface where the sunlight hits the Earth perpendicular to the ground, therefore, a vertical object would project no shadow.
(image from Wikipedia: subsolar point)
The longitude of the subsolar point, corresponds to that of the meridian experiencing solar noon. Over Greenwich (longitude 0°) that happens at the actual noon, and as the Earth rotates 15° every hour, that will happen one our later (at 13:00 h UTC) at longitude 15° W, two hours later (at 14:00 h UTC) at longitude 30° W, and so on. In general terms, you can use the following formula for the subsolar point longitude ($text{SSP}_{text{long}}$).
$text{SSP}_{text{long}} = left(text{UTC} -12right)*15°$
This is a simplified formula, but accurate enough for our purpose. Let's take as an example the following date
July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC
In that moment, the longitude of the subsolar point was 124° 15' West:
$(20+(17/60)-12)*15°=124.25°=124°15'$
Finding the latitude of the subsolar point is a bit more complicated, we need to know the declination of the Sun. Declination is the equivalent of latitude for celestial coordinates. For that, use a formula, a table, or a online calculator like the NOAA Solar Position Calculator.
Just enter the date, and even that the location doesn't matter here, we need to select “Enter Lat/Long -->” to be allowed to enter the offset to UTC as 0, otherwise the time won't be interpreted as UTC time.
From there we can find that the solar declination for our example date is 20.58° (20° 34') which corresponds to the latitude of the subsolar point: 20° 34' North.
Therefore, on July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC, the subsolar point was at 20° 34' N, 124° 15' W, which is somewhere between Mexico and Hawaii. That was the point on Earth closest to the Sun at that moment.
Now, what would happen if there were a very tall mountain close to the subsolar point? Would that mountain be closer to the Sun?
The answer is: probably. It depends on how far and how much higher it is relative to the subsolar point.
We can do a quick calculation based on the following diagram (in this approximation we assume that Earth is spherical, that the sun is infinitely far away and other simplifications)
From there we have
$r-r'=Delta H$
$D = r ~ theta$ ($theta$ in radians)
$frac{r'}{r}=cos(theta)$
After some algebra you can write that the extra height $Delta H$ needed to be as close to the Sun as the subsolar point is
$Delta H = r left(1-cosleft(frac{D}{r}right)right)$
Where $D$ is the distance and $r$ is Earth's radius (in this case makes sense to use the equatorial radius of 6378.1 km)
If we plot this equation we get the following
(the vertical axis is logarithmic)
We can see that around 10 km away from the subsolar point, ~10 meters are enough to be closer than it to the Sun. ~30 meters at 20 km, ~800 meters at 100 km, ~3,000 m at 200 km, and if you go further than 340 km, not even Mount Everest will get you closer to the Sun.
So, the closest point to the Sun will be whatever geographical feature that maximizes the value $text{Altitude}-Delta H$, where $text{Altitude}$ is the altitude of the geographical feature. Let's call that point “proxisolar” point. I just made up that name, but it will be handy for the following discussion.
Now that we understand the basis to establish what is the closest point to the Sun at a given moment, we can tackle the question that probably most people meant when asking this question:
What is the point on Earth that gets closer to the Sun over a year?
The most important fact to keep in mind, is that the variations of the distance between the Earth and the Sun over the year dwarf any topographical feature and even the diameter of the Earth itself. Earth’s distance from the Sun (center-to-center) varies from 147,098,074 km at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). Therefore, the difference is 5 million kilometers!.
The perihelion happens around January 4th, when the solar declination is about -23°, therefore, the latitude of the subsolar point is around 23° South. That rules out Chimborazo, Cayambe and Everest, because they are too far to be the “proxisolar” point. In contrast, Sairecabur (5,971 m at 22.72° S) and Licancabur (5,916m at 22.83° S) are reasonable contestants.
The problem is that the perihelion happens on different days of the year and at different times of the day every year, so the point that gets closer to the Sun on a given year is just the one that happen to be the “proxisolar point” at the time of the Perihelion.
People who argues that Sairecabur or Licancabur are the points that get closer to the Sun, are implicitly assuming that the distance Earth-Sun doesn't vary much during the day of the perihelion. Therefore, the extra elevation of these mountains allows them to get closer to the Sun during that day. Unfortunately, that assumption is completely wrong. Let's see why:
An approximation of the distance Earth-Sun can be obtain from the following formula
$d = frac{a(1-e^2)}{1+e cosleft(text{days}frac{360}{365.25}right)}$
Where $a$ is the semi-major axis of Earth's orbit, $e$ is the eccentricity, and $text{days}$ is the number of days elapsed since the perihelion. To see the simplifications behind this equation look here (note that the conversion factor 360/365.25 is erroneously inverted in that link, thanks @PM2Ring for spotting that).
If you solve the above equation for the perihelion and for one day before/after it, you will get that the difference is 358 km, and for half a day you get 89 km. Therefore, if the subsolar point happens on the opposite side of the Earth than, let's say, Licancabur volcano, this volcano would need to be 89 km higher that the subsolar point to get closer than it to the Sun that year. 89 kilometers!
Therefore, we can discard the idea that a given mountain could be the point that gets closer to the Sun on EVERY year.
If we plot the above equation with distances relative to the perihelion we get the following (using $a$ and $e$ from here)
Here we can see, that if the perihelion happen a bit more than 3 hours before or after the solar noon at Licancabur, the ~6,000 m of elevation advantage would not be enough to get closer to the Sun than the subsolar point at the perihelion, even if such point is at sea level.
Note that three hours corresponds to 45° in Latitude, which at that approximate latitude corresponds to approximately 4,600 km.
Therefore, it can be argued that Licancabur is the point on Earth that have more chances to be the closest to the Sun on an arbitrary year. But on a given year, it might or might not be the closest depending on where the subsolar point is at the moment of the perihelion.
Finally, it is important to note that the distance Earth-Sun at the perihelion varies widely from year to year. If you look at this table of perihelions between years 2001 and 2100, you will see that perihelions often vary by several thousand of kilometers.
Therefore, for example between years 2001 and 2100, the closest perihelion by far is the perihelion of next year (2020), and it will happen when the subsolar point is in the middle of the Indian ocean, about 12,700 km away from Licancabur and Sairecabur volcanoes. Therefore, the point that will be closest to the Sun this century will be one in the middle of the Indian ocean about 320 km south of Rodrigues Island.
Said this, the question of which point on Earth will get closer to the Sun depends on the period of time on which it is considered. For each year, each century and any other arbitrary period of time, the answer will be different.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
This is an interesting question, but it lacks a key factor that is crucial to the answer: TIME.
The point on Earth closest to the Sun varies through time, so the question can be asked about any moment in time, or over periods of time. Let's analyze the factors involved.
At any given moment in time, the point on Earth's surface that is closer to the Sun is what is called the “subsolar point”. This point corresponds to the point of the surface that intersects the imaginary line that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. In other words, the subsolar point correspond to the point on Earth surface where the sunlight hits the Earth perpendicular to the ground, therefore, a vertical object would project no shadow.
(image from Wikipedia: subsolar point)
The longitude of the subsolar point, corresponds to that of the meridian experiencing solar noon. Over Greenwich (longitude 0°) that happens at the actual noon, and as the Earth rotates 15° every hour, that will happen one our later (at 13:00 h UTC) at longitude 15° W, two hours later (at 14:00 h UTC) at longitude 30° W, and so on. In general terms, you can use the following formula for the subsolar point longitude ($text{SSP}_{text{long}}$).
$text{SSP}_{text{long}} = left(text{UTC} -12right)*15°$
This is a simplified formula, but accurate enough for our purpose. Let's take as an example the following date
July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC
In that moment, the longitude of the subsolar point was 124° 15' West:
$(20+(17/60)-12)*15°=124.25°=124°15'$
Finding the latitude of the subsolar point is a bit more complicated, we need to know the declination of the Sun. Declination is the equivalent of latitude for celestial coordinates. For that, use a formula, a table, or a online calculator like the NOAA Solar Position Calculator.
Just enter the date, and even that the location doesn't matter here, we need to select “Enter Lat/Long -->” to be allowed to enter the offset to UTC as 0, otherwise the time won't be interpreted as UTC time.
From there we can find that the solar declination for our example date is 20.58° (20° 34') which corresponds to the latitude of the subsolar point: 20° 34' North.
Therefore, on July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC, the subsolar point was at 20° 34' N, 124° 15' W, which is somewhere between Mexico and Hawaii. That was the point on Earth closest to the Sun at that moment.
Now, what would happen if there were a very tall mountain close to the subsolar point? Would that mountain be closer to the Sun?
The answer is: probably. It depends on how far and how much higher it is relative to the subsolar point.
We can do a quick calculation based on the following diagram (in this approximation we assume that Earth is spherical, that the sun is infinitely far away and other simplifications)
From there we have
$r-r'=Delta H$
$D = r ~ theta$ ($theta$ in radians)
$frac{r'}{r}=cos(theta)$
After some algebra you can write that the extra height $Delta H$ needed to be as close to the Sun as the subsolar point is
$Delta H = r left(1-cosleft(frac{D}{r}right)right)$
Where $D$ is the distance and $r$ is Earth's radius (in this case makes sense to use the equatorial radius of 6378.1 km)
If we plot this equation we get the following
(the vertical axis is logarithmic)
We can see that around 10 km away from the subsolar point, ~10 meters are enough to be closer than it to the Sun. ~30 meters at 20 km, ~800 meters at 100 km, ~3,000 m at 200 km, and if you go further than 340 km, not even Mount Everest will get you closer to the Sun.
So, the closest point to the Sun will be whatever geographical feature that maximizes the value $text{Altitude}-Delta H$, where $text{Altitude}$ is the altitude of the geographical feature. Let's call that point “proxisolar” point. I just made up that name, but it will be handy for the following discussion.
Now that we understand the basis to establish what is the closest point to the Sun at a given moment, we can tackle the question that probably most people meant when asking this question:
What is the point on Earth that gets closer to the Sun over a year?
The most important fact to keep in mind, is that the variations of the distance between the Earth and the Sun over the year dwarf any topographical feature and even the diameter of the Earth itself. Earth’s distance from the Sun (center-to-center) varies from 147,098,074 km at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). Therefore, the difference is 5 million kilometers!.
The perihelion happens around January 4th, when the solar declination is about -23°, therefore, the latitude of the subsolar point is around 23° South. That rules out Chimborazo, Cayambe and Everest, because they are too far to be the “proxisolar” point. In contrast, Sairecabur (5,971 m at 22.72° S) and Licancabur (5,916m at 22.83° S) are reasonable contestants.
The problem is that the perihelion happens on different days of the year and at different times of the day every year, so the point that gets closer to the Sun on a given year is just the one that happen to be the “proxisolar point” at the time of the Perihelion.
People who argues that Sairecabur or Licancabur are the points that get closer to the Sun, are implicitly assuming that the distance Earth-Sun doesn't vary much during the day of the perihelion. Therefore, the extra elevation of these mountains allows them to get closer to the Sun during that day. Unfortunately, that assumption is completely wrong. Let's see why:
An approximation of the distance Earth-Sun can be obtain from the following formula
$d = frac{a(1-e^2)}{1+e cosleft(text{days}frac{360}{365.25}right)}$
Where $a$ is the semi-major axis of Earth's orbit, $e$ is the eccentricity, and $text{days}$ is the number of days elapsed since the perihelion. To see the simplifications behind this equation look here (note that the conversion factor 360/365.25 is erroneously inverted in that link, thanks @PM2Ring for spotting that).
If you solve the above equation for the perihelion and for one day before/after it, you will get that the difference is 358 km, and for half a day you get 89 km. Therefore, if the subsolar point happens on the opposite side of the Earth than, let's say, Licancabur volcano, this volcano would need to be 89 km higher that the subsolar point to get closer than it to the Sun that year. 89 kilometers!
Therefore, we can discard the idea that a given mountain could be the point that gets closer to the Sun on EVERY year.
If we plot the above equation with distances relative to the perihelion we get the following (using $a$ and $e$ from here)
Here we can see, that if the perihelion happen a bit more than 3 hours before or after the solar noon at Licancabur, the ~6,000 m of elevation advantage would not be enough to get closer to the Sun than the subsolar point at the perihelion, even if such point is at sea level.
Note that three hours corresponds to 45° in Latitude, which at that approximate latitude corresponds to approximately 4,600 km.
Therefore, it can be argued that Licancabur is the point on Earth that have more chances to be the closest to the Sun on an arbitrary year. But on a given year, it might or might not be the closest depending on where the subsolar point is at the moment of the perihelion.
Finally, it is important to note that the distance Earth-Sun at the perihelion varies widely from year to year. If you look at this table of perihelions between years 2001 and 2100, you will see that perihelions often vary by several thousand of kilometers.
Therefore, for example between years 2001 and 2100, the closest perihelion by far is the perihelion of next year (2020), and it will happen when the subsolar point is in the middle of the Indian ocean, about 12,700 km away from Licancabur and Sairecabur volcanoes. Therefore, the point that will be closest to the Sun this century will be one in the middle of the Indian ocean about 320 km south of Rodrigues Island.
Said this, the question of which point on Earth will get closer to the Sun depends on the period of time on which it is considered. For each year, each century and any other arbitrary period of time, the answer will be different.
$endgroup$
This is an interesting question, but it lacks a key factor that is crucial to the answer: TIME.
The point on Earth closest to the Sun varies through time, so the question can be asked about any moment in time, or over periods of time. Let's analyze the factors involved.
At any given moment in time, the point on Earth's surface that is closer to the Sun is what is called the “subsolar point”. This point corresponds to the point of the surface that intersects the imaginary line that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. In other words, the subsolar point correspond to the point on Earth surface where the sunlight hits the Earth perpendicular to the ground, therefore, a vertical object would project no shadow.
(image from Wikipedia: subsolar point)
The longitude of the subsolar point, corresponds to that of the meridian experiencing solar noon. Over Greenwich (longitude 0°) that happens at the actual noon, and as the Earth rotates 15° every hour, that will happen one our later (at 13:00 h UTC) at longitude 15° W, two hours later (at 14:00 h UTC) at longitude 30° W, and so on. In general terms, you can use the following formula for the subsolar point longitude ($text{SSP}_{text{long}}$).
$text{SSP}_{text{long}} = left(text{UTC} -12right)*15°$
This is a simplified formula, but accurate enough for our purpose. Let's take as an example the following date
July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC
In that moment, the longitude of the subsolar point was 124° 15' West:
$(20+(17/60)-12)*15°=124.25°=124°15'$
Finding the latitude of the subsolar point is a bit more complicated, we need to know the declination of the Sun. Declination is the equivalent of latitude for celestial coordinates. For that, use a formula, a table, or a online calculator like the NOAA Solar Position Calculator.
Just enter the date, and even that the location doesn't matter here, we need to select “Enter Lat/Long -->” to be allowed to enter the offset to UTC as 0, otherwise the time won't be interpreted as UTC time.
From there we can find that the solar declination for our example date is 20.58° (20° 34') which corresponds to the latitude of the subsolar point: 20° 34' North.
Therefore, on July 20, 1969, at 20:17 UTC, the subsolar point was at 20° 34' N, 124° 15' W, which is somewhere between Mexico and Hawaii. That was the point on Earth closest to the Sun at that moment.
Now, what would happen if there were a very tall mountain close to the subsolar point? Would that mountain be closer to the Sun?
The answer is: probably. It depends on how far and how much higher it is relative to the subsolar point.
We can do a quick calculation based on the following diagram (in this approximation we assume that Earth is spherical, that the sun is infinitely far away and other simplifications)
From there we have
$r-r'=Delta H$
$D = r ~ theta$ ($theta$ in radians)
$frac{r'}{r}=cos(theta)$
After some algebra you can write that the extra height $Delta H$ needed to be as close to the Sun as the subsolar point is
$Delta H = r left(1-cosleft(frac{D}{r}right)right)$
Where $D$ is the distance and $r$ is Earth's radius (in this case makes sense to use the equatorial radius of 6378.1 km)
If we plot this equation we get the following
(the vertical axis is logarithmic)
We can see that around 10 km away from the subsolar point, ~10 meters are enough to be closer than it to the Sun. ~30 meters at 20 km, ~800 meters at 100 km, ~3,000 m at 200 km, and if you go further than 340 km, not even Mount Everest will get you closer to the Sun.
So, the closest point to the Sun will be whatever geographical feature that maximizes the value $text{Altitude}-Delta H$, where $text{Altitude}$ is the altitude of the geographical feature. Let's call that point “proxisolar” point. I just made up that name, but it will be handy for the following discussion.
Now that we understand the basis to establish what is the closest point to the Sun at a given moment, we can tackle the question that probably most people meant when asking this question:
What is the point on Earth that gets closer to the Sun over a year?
The most important fact to keep in mind, is that the variations of the distance between the Earth and the Sun over the year dwarf any topographical feature and even the diameter of the Earth itself. Earth’s distance from the Sun (center-to-center) varies from 147,098,074 km at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). Therefore, the difference is 5 million kilometers!.
The perihelion happens around January 4th, when the solar declination is about -23°, therefore, the latitude of the subsolar point is around 23° South. That rules out Chimborazo, Cayambe and Everest, because they are too far to be the “proxisolar” point. In contrast, Sairecabur (5,971 m at 22.72° S) and Licancabur (5,916m at 22.83° S) are reasonable contestants.
The problem is that the perihelion happens on different days of the year and at different times of the day every year, so the point that gets closer to the Sun on a given year is just the one that happen to be the “proxisolar point” at the time of the Perihelion.
People who argues that Sairecabur or Licancabur are the points that get closer to the Sun, are implicitly assuming that the distance Earth-Sun doesn't vary much during the day of the perihelion. Therefore, the extra elevation of these mountains allows them to get closer to the Sun during that day. Unfortunately, that assumption is completely wrong. Let's see why:
An approximation of the distance Earth-Sun can be obtain from the following formula
$d = frac{a(1-e^2)}{1+e cosleft(text{days}frac{360}{365.25}right)}$
Where $a$ is the semi-major axis of Earth's orbit, $e$ is the eccentricity, and $text{days}$ is the number of days elapsed since the perihelion. To see the simplifications behind this equation look here (note that the conversion factor 360/365.25 is erroneously inverted in that link, thanks @PM2Ring for spotting that).
If you solve the above equation for the perihelion and for one day before/after it, you will get that the difference is 358 km, and for half a day you get 89 km. Therefore, if the subsolar point happens on the opposite side of the Earth than, let's say, Licancabur volcano, this volcano would need to be 89 km higher that the subsolar point to get closer than it to the Sun that year. 89 kilometers!
Therefore, we can discard the idea that a given mountain could be the point that gets closer to the Sun on EVERY year.
If we plot the above equation with distances relative to the perihelion we get the following (using $a$ and $e$ from here)
Here we can see, that if the perihelion happen a bit more than 3 hours before or after the solar noon at Licancabur, the ~6,000 m of elevation advantage would not be enough to get closer to the Sun than the subsolar point at the perihelion, even if such point is at sea level.
Note that three hours corresponds to 45° in Latitude, which at that approximate latitude corresponds to approximately 4,600 km.
Therefore, it can be argued that Licancabur is the point on Earth that have more chances to be the closest to the Sun on an arbitrary year. But on a given year, it might or might not be the closest depending on where the subsolar point is at the moment of the perihelion.
Finally, it is important to note that the distance Earth-Sun at the perihelion varies widely from year to year. If you look at this table of perihelions between years 2001 and 2100, you will see that perihelions often vary by several thousand of kilometers.
Therefore, for example between years 2001 and 2100, the closest perihelion by far is the perihelion of next year (2020), and it will happen when the subsolar point is in the middle of the Indian ocean, about 12,700 km away from Licancabur and Sairecabur volcanoes. Therefore, the point that will be closest to the Sun this century will be one in the middle of the Indian ocean about 320 km south of Rodrigues Island.
Said this, the question of which point on Earth will get closer to the Sun depends on the period of time on which it is considered. For each year, each century and any other arbitrary period of time, the answer will be different.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
Camilo RadaCamilo Rada
8,71532966
8,71532966
4
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
4
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
10
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Time, yes. Geology's best and only friend. What was the height of the tallest mountain on Pangaea... ?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
10
10
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JPhi1618 But such a more general answer would be wrong. Or correct some times only, like a broken clock. Better to tell tourists to travel to different places of the world chasing the perihelion proxisolar point of the year... that sounds fun too.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Exercise for the reader: what place on Earth is farthest from the Sun? and I like how you are calculating the place closest to the Sun while assuming the Sun is infinitely far away, which is of course correct, but funny regardless.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Your question is specific, but I wonder if it's specific enough. The Earth also rotates around the Earth-Moon barycentre, on average 4,671 km from the Earth's centre. So in this day, the Earth not only gets 95 km further from the Sun, but also moves from fraction of 4,671 km, which may be toward or away from the Sun. Your perihelion may be accurate for the barycentre (depending on how Jupiter and other planets impact it), but how far in time from perihelion may be Earth's actual shortest distance to the Sun any given time? We may need a 4-body gravitation simulation to answer this one...
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
$begingroup$
wow, that's an excellent explanation and incredible detail. I feel like you could add even more complexity if you consider the dynamics of the sun. The surface is very dynamic, and the earth-sun distance probably changes by much more than a few kilometers when there are sun spots or Coronal Mass Ejections in the region facing earth. Or when the sun rotates about the barycentre of the solar system... The sky's the limit.
$endgroup$
– craq
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
It is impossible to know. Solar flares can have more than 500,000 kilometers. So if we consider them part of the sun, the moment when the earth is closer to the sun can be very different from perihelion if a big flare happens, making much of what was discussed in other answers irrelevant.
New contributor
$endgroup$
12
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is impossible to know. Solar flares can have more than 500,000 kilometers. So if we consider them part of the sun, the moment when the earth is closer to the sun can be very different from perihelion if a big flare happens, making much of what was discussed in other answers irrelevant.
New contributor
$endgroup$
12
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is impossible to know. Solar flares can have more than 500,000 kilometers. So if we consider them part of the sun, the moment when the earth is closer to the sun can be very different from perihelion if a big flare happens, making much of what was discussed in other answers irrelevant.
New contributor
$endgroup$
It is impossible to know. Solar flares can have more than 500,000 kilometers. So if we consider them part of the sun, the moment when the earth is closer to the sun can be very different from perihelion if a big flare happens, making much of what was discussed in other answers irrelevant.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
RobertoRoberto
792
792
New contributor
New contributor
12
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
add a comment |
12
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
12
12
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might as well argue that the heliosphere or solar wind are part of the Sun, in which case our distance to the Sun is zero. I'm not sure that is a very useful definition of "the Sun". Consider that we normally say we are "on Earth". If we are "in the Earth", we are most underground.
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
The distance between the Earth and the Sun is hundreds of times even the full extent of a half-million-kilometer solar flare. This is a very misleading image for the purpose of this answer.
$endgroup$
– WBT
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 500,000 km flare is around 0.2 degrees from Earth's point of view. Thus (if Earth was a smooth ball) it might change the closes point on Earth by at most 0.2 degrees; that is around 20 kilometers. Not really enough to make other answers invalid.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
And Earth's distance to Sun varies by 5,000,000 km between perihelion and aphelion; again a 500,000 km random variation is not enough to make the other answers completely irrelevant.
$endgroup$
– JiK
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The point on the surface of the Earth where the Sun is currently immediately overhead is called the Zenith Point. Its Latitude and Longitude correspond to the Declination and Greenwich Hour Angle of the Sun.
These data points can be approximated to any degree of accuracy and timeframe by a Fourier series of n terms. Accuracy sufficient for sextant work for the current decade can be achieved with a Fourier series of 7 terms). These terms are published in nautical almanacs.
New contributor
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The point on the surface of the Earth where the Sun is currently immediately overhead is called the Zenith Point. Its Latitude and Longitude correspond to the Declination and Greenwich Hour Angle of the Sun.
These data points can be approximated to any degree of accuracy and timeframe by a Fourier series of n terms. Accuracy sufficient for sextant work for the current decade can be achieved with a Fourier series of 7 terms). These terms are published in nautical almanacs.
New contributor
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The point on the surface of the Earth where the Sun is currently immediately overhead is called the Zenith Point. Its Latitude and Longitude correspond to the Declination and Greenwich Hour Angle of the Sun.
These data points can be approximated to any degree of accuracy and timeframe by a Fourier series of n terms. Accuracy sufficient for sextant work for the current decade can be achieved with a Fourier series of 7 terms). These terms are published in nautical almanacs.
New contributor
$endgroup$
The point on the surface of the Earth where the Sun is currently immediately overhead is called the Zenith Point. Its Latitude and Longitude correspond to the Declination and Greenwich Hour Angle of the Sun.
These data points can be approximated to any degree of accuracy and timeframe by a Fourier series of n terms. Accuracy sufficient for sextant work for the current decade can be achieved with a Fourier series of 7 terms). These terms are published in nautical almanacs.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
Dave KimbleDave Kimble
411
411
New contributor
New contributor
7
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
add a comment |
7
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
7
7
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Just because the Sun is immediately overhead a particular point on Earth does not mean that that point is closest to the Sun. To illustrate this, consider that for any zenith point I can get closer to the Sun by standing on a ladder 1 meter away. Or consider that the zenith point might be in a deep canyon, or adjacent to a tall mountain, etc. The Earth would have to be a perfect sphere for the zenith point to be analogous with the closest point. For this reason, I don't think this answer addresses the question.
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
$begingroup$
The difference can be close to 300 km when the zenith point is in the Pacific Ocean just outside Huascarán (a 6700-m peak in the Andes, the highest in the tropics).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
$begingroup$
You'd have to find what the zenith was at the closet perihelion ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even on the list.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Whichever spot on the surface of the Earth is experiencing Lahaina Noon, or would be if it wasn't cloudy, is at the subsolar point and pointed directly at the Sun, moreso than any other point on Earth at that moment. Of course, you could get closer to the sun by climbing higher.
If you were able to be at the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador (point furthest from the center of Earth) at Lahaina Noon at perihelion, that would be as close to the Sun as you can get and still be on the surface of the Earth. You'd probably have to be very lucky or extremely patient for that to happen, though.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Whichever spot on the surface of the Earth is experiencing Lahaina Noon, or would be if it wasn't cloudy, is at the subsolar point and pointed directly at the Sun, moreso than any other point on Earth at that moment. Of course, you could get closer to the sun by climbing higher.
If you were able to be at the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador (point furthest from the center of Earth) at Lahaina Noon at perihelion, that would be as close to the Sun as you can get and still be on the surface of the Earth. You'd probably have to be very lucky or extremely patient for that to happen, though.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Whichever spot on the surface of the Earth is experiencing Lahaina Noon, or would be if it wasn't cloudy, is at the subsolar point and pointed directly at the Sun, moreso than any other point on Earth at that moment. Of course, you could get closer to the sun by climbing higher.
If you were able to be at the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador (point furthest from the center of Earth) at Lahaina Noon at perihelion, that would be as close to the Sun as you can get and still be on the surface of the Earth. You'd probably have to be very lucky or extremely patient for that to happen, though.
$endgroup$
Whichever spot on the surface of the Earth is experiencing Lahaina Noon, or would be if it wasn't cloudy, is at the subsolar point and pointed directly at the Sun, moreso than any other point on Earth at that moment. Of course, you could get closer to the sun by climbing higher.
If you were able to be at the summit of Chimborazo volcano in Ecuador (point furthest from the center of Earth) at Lahaina Noon at perihelion, that would be as close to the Sun as you can get and still be on the surface of the Earth. You'd probably have to be very lucky or extremely patient for that to happen, though.
answered yesterday
WBTWBT
1601110
1601110
2
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
You would indeed need extreme patience, because you'd have to wait for around 6000 years (give or take) until perihelion occurs when the sun is at Chimborazo's latitude. And if you're willing to wait that long you may also want to take into account periodic variations in the earth's orbital eccentricy, which means that the perihelion distance will keep decreasing after the subsolar-point-at-perihelion moves north of Chimborazo. You may need to wait several eccentricity cycles until perihelion-at-Chimborazo happens together with maximal eccentricity.
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
10 hours ago
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23
$begingroup$
You mean instantaneous closeness? Because, after all, the Earth rotates, and its orbit precesses...
$endgroup$
– Spencer
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Spencer I came upon this discussion on Facebook and after seeing so many wrong answers on internet I wanted to put the question here, just as it is generally stated, and give below what I think is the right answer. But you got the right point, you have to link the question to a period of time.
$endgroup$
– Camilo Rada
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Currently, where there are no shadows being cast by vertical objects.
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– Mazura
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
What location on Earth has been the closest to the Sun?
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– Mazura
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
Related: When is Earth closest to the Sun?
$endgroup$
– gerrit♦
2 days ago