What rule governs the usage of “by” versus “with”?
There are many instances where by and with mean something completely different, but which is the correct preposition usage in the following sentences?
- A file by the same name as the original file.
- A file with the same name as the original file.
Do the two sentences above mean something different, or can they be used interchangeably? What general rules (of thumb) govern the correct usage of the prepositions by and with?
If you rewrite the sentences to
A man by the same type of hat as the original hat.- A man with the same type of hat as the original hat.
then they obviously don't mean the same. In the former sentence, the man is next to the hat, in the latter, he is wearing or holding it. Is the distinction between a material and immaterial object of the sentence (in this case the hat, in the former case the name) what generally governs the correct usage of by and with?
differences prepositions questions
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
add a comment |
There are many instances where by and with mean something completely different, but which is the correct preposition usage in the following sentences?
- A file by the same name as the original file.
- A file with the same name as the original file.
Do the two sentences above mean something different, or can they be used interchangeably? What general rules (of thumb) govern the correct usage of the prepositions by and with?
If you rewrite the sentences to
A man by the same type of hat as the original hat.- A man with the same type of hat as the original hat.
then they obviously don't mean the same. In the former sentence, the man is next to the hat, in the latter, he is wearing or holding it. Is the distinction between a material and immaterial object of the sentence (in this case the hat, in the former case the name) what generally governs the correct usage of by and with?
differences prepositions questions
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
2
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
1
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58
add a comment |
There are many instances where by and with mean something completely different, but which is the correct preposition usage in the following sentences?
- A file by the same name as the original file.
- A file with the same name as the original file.
Do the two sentences above mean something different, or can they be used interchangeably? What general rules (of thumb) govern the correct usage of the prepositions by and with?
If you rewrite the sentences to
A man by the same type of hat as the original hat.- A man with the same type of hat as the original hat.
then they obviously don't mean the same. In the former sentence, the man is next to the hat, in the latter, he is wearing or holding it. Is the distinction between a material and immaterial object of the sentence (in this case the hat, in the former case the name) what generally governs the correct usage of by and with?
differences prepositions questions
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
There are many instances where by and with mean something completely different, but which is the correct preposition usage in the following sentences?
- A file by the same name as the original file.
- A file with the same name as the original file.
Do the two sentences above mean something different, or can they be used interchangeably? What general rules (of thumb) govern the correct usage of the prepositions by and with?
If you rewrite the sentences to
A man by the same type of hat as the original hat.- A man with the same type of hat as the original hat.
then they obviously don't mean the same. In the former sentence, the man is next to the hat, in the latter, he is wearing or holding it. Is the distinction between a material and immaterial object of the sentence (in this case the hat, in the former case the name) what generally governs the correct usage of by and with?
differences prepositions questions
differences prepositions questions
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
edited Jul 25 '18 at 8:41
Oliver Mason
3,0001521
3,0001521
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
asked Jul 22 '18 at 12:43
Miqi180Miqi180
1163
1163
2
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
1
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58
add a comment |
2
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
1
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58
2
2
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
1
1
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58
add a comment |
1 Answer
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In the second example, the use of "by" could indicate physical proximity to a hat, whereas "with" suggests the man has the hat. In cases where there is a possible physical interpretation, it is better to use "with" (assuming you do not intend to convey that the subject is near an object). In cases where there isn't a possible physical meaning to confuse, "by" works to identify something. "By" as an indication of identity is particularly clear when you specify cases such as example one, where existence of a name is referred to. This fits into implicit phrases like "goes by" or "known by" as suggested in the comments.
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
add a comment |
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In the second example, the use of "by" could indicate physical proximity to a hat, whereas "with" suggests the man has the hat. In cases where there is a possible physical interpretation, it is better to use "with" (assuming you do not intend to convey that the subject is near an object). In cases where there isn't a possible physical meaning to confuse, "by" works to identify something. "By" as an indication of identity is particularly clear when you specify cases such as example one, where existence of a name is referred to. This fits into implicit phrases like "goes by" or "known by" as suggested in the comments.
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
add a comment |
In the second example, the use of "by" could indicate physical proximity to a hat, whereas "with" suggests the man has the hat. In cases where there is a possible physical interpretation, it is better to use "with" (assuming you do not intend to convey that the subject is near an object). In cases where there isn't a possible physical meaning to confuse, "by" works to identify something. "By" as an indication of identity is particularly clear when you specify cases such as example one, where existence of a name is referred to. This fits into implicit phrases like "goes by" or "known by" as suggested in the comments.
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
add a comment |
In the second example, the use of "by" could indicate physical proximity to a hat, whereas "with" suggests the man has the hat. In cases where there is a possible physical interpretation, it is better to use "with" (assuming you do not intend to convey that the subject is near an object). In cases where there isn't a possible physical meaning to confuse, "by" works to identify something. "By" as an indication of identity is particularly clear when you specify cases such as example one, where existence of a name is referred to. This fits into implicit phrases like "goes by" or "known by" as suggested in the comments.
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
In the second example, the use of "by" could indicate physical proximity to a hat, whereas "with" suggests the man has the hat. In cases where there is a possible physical interpretation, it is better to use "with" (assuming you do not intend to convey that the subject is near an object). In cases where there isn't a possible physical meaning to confuse, "by" works to identify something. "By" as an indication of identity is particularly clear when you specify cases such as example one, where existence of a name is referred to. This fits into implicit phrases like "goes by" or "known by" as suggested in the comments.
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
answered 2 hours ago
Cassie SevignyCassie Sevigny
414
414
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
In constructions involving name and by (such as He goes by the name of Smith, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet) , the highlighted preposition can usually (if not always) be understood as a shortened form of known by [such-and-such a name]. But this doesn't work with your other referents (A man known by the same type of hat doesn't really make sense).
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 12:51
Seems like a very useful rule of thumb. Thanks.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:16
Note that I haven't fully thought this one through, so I'm not sure how "absolute" the above principle is in respect of by + name, and I've no idea whether that or a similar principle might apply to other words besides name.
– FumbleFingers
Jul 22 '18 at 13:29
1
@FumbleFingersote Yeah, I get that, hence why I wrote "rule of thumb". I don't know whether this can be elevated to a general or "absolute" principle either, but it does seem like a reasonable starting point. After all, there might not be any general principles or rules governing the proposition usage that I'm asking about.
– Miqi180
Jul 22 '18 at 13:57
In the context you asked bout, there is no difference.
– Robbie Goodwin
Aug 4 '18 at 20:58