Know when to turn notes upside-down(eighth notes, sixteen notes, etc.)












4















Suppose I have four of eighth notes(4/4 as time signature), all of them at different pitches, one being very high. An example is show below:



Notes



How would I know if I need to turn that upside down(downward stem) or not? Is there a method that applies to sixteenth notes, thirty-second notes, etc.?










share|improve this question

























  • By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

    – Todd Wilcox
    yesterday











  • @ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday











  • I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

    – David Bowling
    yesterday











  • @DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday






  • 3





    I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

    – David K
    20 hours ago
















4















Suppose I have four of eighth notes(4/4 as time signature), all of them at different pitches, one being very high. An example is show below:



Notes



How would I know if I need to turn that upside down(downward stem) or not? Is there a method that applies to sixteenth notes, thirty-second notes, etc.?










share|improve this question

























  • By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

    – Todd Wilcox
    yesterday











  • @ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday











  • I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

    – David Bowling
    yesterday











  • @DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday






  • 3





    I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

    – David K
    20 hours ago














4












4








4


1






Suppose I have four of eighth notes(4/4 as time signature), all of them at different pitches, one being very high. An example is show below:



Notes



How would I know if I need to turn that upside down(downward stem) or not? Is there a method that applies to sixteenth notes, thirty-second notes, etc.?










share|improve this question
















Suppose I have four of eighth notes(4/4 as time signature), all of them at different pitches, one being very high. An example is show below:



Notes



How would I know if I need to turn that upside down(downward stem) or not? Is there a method that applies to sixteenth notes, thirty-second notes, etc.?







theory sheet-music engraving






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 10 hours ago









Richard

43.3k6100186




43.3k6100186










asked yesterday









XilpexXilpex

420214




420214













  • By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

    – Todd Wilcox
    yesterday











  • @ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday











  • I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

    – David Bowling
    yesterday











  • @DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday






  • 3





    I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

    – David K
    20 hours ago



















  • By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

    – Todd Wilcox
    yesterday











  • @ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday











  • I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

    – David Bowling
    yesterday











  • @DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

    – Xilpex
    yesterday






  • 3





    I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

    – David K
    20 hours ago

















By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

– Todd Wilcox
yesterday





By “turn upside down” do you mean write it with downward stems? If so, if you use software it should do it automatically.

– Todd Wilcox
yesterday













@ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

– Xilpex
yesterday





@ToddWilcox: Yeah, I know but is there some technique when not using software? I also mean downward stems.

– Xilpex
yesterday













I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

– David Bowling
yesterday





I'm not sure what difference the duration of the note makes. Do you know when to draw stem-up or stem-down for quarter-notes?

– David Bowling
yesterday













@DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

– Xilpex
yesterday





@DavidBowling I know it for quarter notes but not the faster ones.

– Xilpex
yesterday




3




3





I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

– David K
20 hours ago





I think it's worth noting that not everyone has always solved this problem in the exact same way. Sometimes in printed music you see a beam with some of the stems going down and some going up.

– David K
20 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















11














Notes below the center stave have stems pointing up, and notes above the center stave have stems pointing down. It does not matter whether the notes are half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.; it only matters that the notes have stems.



For beamed groupings, if the number of notes above the center stave is equal to the number below for that grouping, choose the stem direction based on the note head furthest from the center stave. If the number of note heads above the stave is greater than the number below, use the rule for notes above the center stave. Similarly, if the number of note heads below the center stave is greater than the number above, use the rule for notes below the center stave.



When in doubt, use downward-pointing stems. As always, use your best judgement when something doesn't look quite right to you or if the context suggests one choice over another.






share|improve this answer
























  • yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

    – Carl Witthoft
    12 hours ago











  • @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

    – Dekkadeci
    8 hours ago













  • @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

    – Carl Witthoft
    7 hours ago



















9














The general stemming rule (for individual notes) is: from third space upward, use downward pointing stems; from the second space downward, use upward pointing stems. On the third line, one can go either way. However, one may wish to violate the rules a bit to make stemming match a melodic contour.



Multiple notes on the same stem follow the majority of the chord notes; in this case, the third line goes down.



With things like contrapuntal pieces or hymns (in 4-part harmony) generally stem according to voices; high voices have upward pointing stems and lower voices have downward pointing stems.



In all cases, readability is paramount.






share|improve this answer































    1














    Unless one is using stem direction to indicate voices, the most important "rule" is to use judgment in determining whether other rules "work" in a particular case, and overriding them when they don't. Most rules take a fairly narrow view of each individual problem, but in many cases other considerations may be more important.



    For example, if there are many groups of beamed notes in succession, readability may be improved if the beams can be made to follow a reasonable contour, keeping beam directions consistent when practical. If the above message appeared between a bunch of beamed groups of low notes, and a bunch of beamed groups of high notes, it might make sense to have the preceding groups be beamed above the notes, the following groups be beamed below the notes, and the one group shown above slope down and to the right "between" the notes.



    What's important is not to look at each beamed group independently, but to figure out an overall layout that visually makes sense. Oftentimes, there will be some beamed groups that could beamed reasonably well in several different ways if viewed only in isolation, but some of those ways would fit better than others in the context of surrounding groups.



    Note also that an editor who is working as a member of a publisher's staff may need to adapt a more "mechanical" approach than someone who is working independently. If a publisher might end up having different parts of a piece laid out by different people, having those parts appear consistent may be more important than having them be maximally readable. If one is working independently, however, then trying to figure out what layout would be more readable would be more valuable.






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81458%2fknow-when-to-turn-notes-upside-downeighth-notes-sixteen-notes-etc%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      11














      Notes below the center stave have stems pointing up, and notes above the center stave have stems pointing down. It does not matter whether the notes are half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.; it only matters that the notes have stems.



      For beamed groupings, if the number of notes above the center stave is equal to the number below for that grouping, choose the stem direction based on the note head furthest from the center stave. If the number of note heads above the stave is greater than the number below, use the rule for notes above the center stave. Similarly, if the number of note heads below the center stave is greater than the number above, use the rule for notes below the center stave.



      When in doubt, use downward-pointing stems. As always, use your best judgement when something doesn't look quite right to you or if the context suggests one choice over another.






      share|improve this answer
























      • yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

        – Carl Witthoft
        12 hours ago











      • @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

        – Dekkadeci
        8 hours ago













      • @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

        – Carl Witthoft
        7 hours ago
















      11














      Notes below the center stave have stems pointing up, and notes above the center stave have stems pointing down. It does not matter whether the notes are half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.; it only matters that the notes have stems.



      For beamed groupings, if the number of notes above the center stave is equal to the number below for that grouping, choose the stem direction based on the note head furthest from the center stave. If the number of note heads above the stave is greater than the number below, use the rule for notes above the center stave. Similarly, if the number of note heads below the center stave is greater than the number above, use the rule for notes below the center stave.



      When in doubt, use downward-pointing stems. As always, use your best judgement when something doesn't look quite right to you or if the context suggests one choice over another.






      share|improve this answer
























      • yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

        – Carl Witthoft
        12 hours ago











      • @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

        – Dekkadeci
        8 hours ago













      • @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

        – Carl Witthoft
        7 hours ago














      11












      11








      11







      Notes below the center stave have stems pointing up, and notes above the center stave have stems pointing down. It does not matter whether the notes are half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.; it only matters that the notes have stems.



      For beamed groupings, if the number of notes above the center stave is equal to the number below for that grouping, choose the stem direction based on the note head furthest from the center stave. If the number of note heads above the stave is greater than the number below, use the rule for notes above the center stave. Similarly, if the number of note heads below the center stave is greater than the number above, use the rule for notes below the center stave.



      When in doubt, use downward-pointing stems. As always, use your best judgement when something doesn't look quite right to you or if the context suggests one choice over another.






      share|improve this answer













      Notes below the center stave have stems pointing up, and notes above the center stave have stems pointing down. It does not matter whether the notes are half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.; it only matters that the notes have stems.



      For beamed groupings, if the number of notes above the center stave is equal to the number below for that grouping, choose the stem direction based on the note head furthest from the center stave. If the number of note heads above the stave is greater than the number below, use the rule for notes above the center stave. Similarly, if the number of note heads below the center stave is greater than the number above, use the rule for notes below the center stave.



      When in doubt, use downward-pointing stems. As always, use your best judgement when something doesn't look quite right to you or if the context suggests one choice over another.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered yesterday









      David BowlingDavid Bowling

      4,84121338




      4,84121338













      • yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

        – Carl Witthoft
        12 hours ago











      • @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

        – Dekkadeci
        8 hours ago













      • @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

        – Carl Witthoft
        7 hours ago



















      • yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

        – Carl Witthoft
        12 hours ago











      • @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

        – Dekkadeci
        8 hours ago













      • @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

        – Carl Witthoft
        7 hours ago

















      yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

      – Carl Witthoft
      12 hours ago





      yep, nothing is more annoying than playing a run of 16ths and some publisher flipped the stem on one or two notes in the middle of the run.

      – Carl Witthoft
      12 hours ago













      @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

      – Dekkadeci
      8 hours ago







      @CarlWitthoft - I've seen those some-flipped-stems runs in piano sheet music before. Those flipped stems often mean that your other hand should play those notes instead of your primary note run hand for that passage.

      – Dekkadeci
      8 hours ago















      @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

      – Carl Witthoft
      7 hours ago





      @Dekkadeci yes, that's been stated. Us orchestra members recognize the same method of indicating divisi parts. But when it shows up in the solo part of a concerto...

      – Carl Witthoft
      7 hours ago











      9














      The general stemming rule (for individual notes) is: from third space upward, use downward pointing stems; from the second space downward, use upward pointing stems. On the third line, one can go either way. However, one may wish to violate the rules a bit to make stemming match a melodic contour.



      Multiple notes on the same stem follow the majority of the chord notes; in this case, the third line goes down.



      With things like contrapuntal pieces or hymns (in 4-part harmony) generally stem according to voices; high voices have upward pointing stems and lower voices have downward pointing stems.



      In all cases, readability is paramount.






      share|improve this answer




























        9














        The general stemming rule (for individual notes) is: from third space upward, use downward pointing stems; from the second space downward, use upward pointing stems. On the third line, one can go either way. However, one may wish to violate the rules a bit to make stemming match a melodic contour.



        Multiple notes on the same stem follow the majority of the chord notes; in this case, the third line goes down.



        With things like contrapuntal pieces or hymns (in 4-part harmony) generally stem according to voices; high voices have upward pointing stems and lower voices have downward pointing stems.



        In all cases, readability is paramount.






        share|improve this answer


























          9












          9








          9







          The general stemming rule (for individual notes) is: from third space upward, use downward pointing stems; from the second space downward, use upward pointing stems. On the third line, one can go either way. However, one may wish to violate the rules a bit to make stemming match a melodic contour.



          Multiple notes on the same stem follow the majority of the chord notes; in this case, the third line goes down.



          With things like contrapuntal pieces or hymns (in 4-part harmony) generally stem according to voices; high voices have upward pointing stems and lower voices have downward pointing stems.



          In all cases, readability is paramount.






          share|improve this answer













          The general stemming rule (for individual notes) is: from third space upward, use downward pointing stems; from the second space downward, use upward pointing stems. On the third line, one can go either way. However, one may wish to violate the rules a bit to make stemming match a melodic contour.



          Multiple notes on the same stem follow the majority of the chord notes; in this case, the third line goes down.



          With things like contrapuntal pieces or hymns (in 4-part harmony) generally stem according to voices; high voices have upward pointing stems and lower voices have downward pointing stems.



          In all cases, readability is paramount.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          ttwttw

          8,693931




          8,693931























              1














              Unless one is using stem direction to indicate voices, the most important "rule" is to use judgment in determining whether other rules "work" in a particular case, and overriding them when they don't. Most rules take a fairly narrow view of each individual problem, but in many cases other considerations may be more important.



              For example, if there are many groups of beamed notes in succession, readability may be improved if the beams can be made to follow a reasonable contour, keeping beam directions consistent when practical. If the above message appeared between a bunch of beamed groups of low notes, and a bunch of beamed groups of high notes, it might make sense to have the preceding groups be beamed above the notes, the following groups be beamed below the notes, and the one group shown above slope down and to the right "between" the notes.



              What's important is not to look at each beamed group independently, but to figure out an overall layout that visually makes sense. Oftentimes, there will be some beamed groups that could beamed reasonably well in several different ways if viewed only in isolation, but some of those ways would fit better than others in the context of surrounding groups.



              Note also that an editor who is working as a member of a publisher's staff may need to adapt a more "mechanical" approach than someone who is working independently. If a publisher might end up having different parts of a piece laid out by different people, having those parts appear consistent may be more important than having them be maximally readable. If one is working independently, however, then trying to figure out what layout would be more readable would be more valuable.






              share|improve this answer




























                1














                Unless one is using stem direction to indicate voices, the most important "rule" is to use judgment in determining whether other rules "work" in a particular case, and overriding them when they don't. Most rules take a fairly narrow view of each individual problem, but in many cases other considerations may be more important.



                For example, if there are many groups of beamed notes in succession, readability may be improved if the beams can be made to follow a reasonable contour, keeping beam directions consistent when practical. If the above message appeared between a bunch of beamed groups of low notes, and a bunch of beamed groups of high notes, it might make sense to have the preceding groups be beamed above the notes, the following groups be beamed below the notes, and the one group shown above slope down and to the right "between" the notes.



                What's important is not to look at each beamed group independently, but to figure out an overall layout that visually makes sense. Oftentimes, there will be some beamed groups that could beamed reasonably well in several different ways if viewed only in isolation, but some of those ways would fit better than others in the context of surrounding groups.



                Note also that an editor who is working as a member of a publisher's staff may need to adapt a more "mechanical" approach than someone who is working independently. If a publisher might end up having different parts of a piece laid out by different people, having those parts appear consistent may be more important than having them be maximally readable. If one is working independently, however, then trying to figure out what layout would be more readable would be more valuable.






                share|improve this answer


























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  Unless one is using stem direction to indicate voices, the most important "rule" is to use judgment in determining whether other rules "work" in a particular case, and overriding them when they don't. Most rules take a fairly narrow view of each individual problem, but in many cases other considerations may be more important.



                  For example, if there are many groups of beamed notes in succession, readability may be improved if the beams can be made to follow a reasonable contour, keeping beam directions consistent when practical. If the above message appeared between a bunch of beamed groups of low notes, and a bunch of beamed groups of high notes, it might make sense to have the preceding groups be beamed above the notes, the following groups be beamed below the notes, and the one group shown above slope down and to the right "between" the notes.



                  What's important is not to look at each beamed group independently, but to figure out an overall layout that visually makes sense. Oftentimes, there will be some beamed groups that could beamed reasonably well in several different ways if viewed only in isolation, but some of those ways would fit better than others in the context of surrounding groups.



                  Note also that an editor who is working as a member of a publisher's staff may need to adapt a more "mechanical" approach than someone who is working independently. If a publisher might end up having different parts of a piece laid out by different people, having those parts appear consistent may be more important than having them be maximally readable. If one is working independently, however, then trying to figure out what layout would be more readable would be more valuable.






                  share|improve this answer













                  Unless one is using stem direction to indicate voices, the most important "rule" is to use judgment in determining whether other rules "work" in a particular case, and overriding them when they don't. Most rules take a fairly narrow view of each individual problem, but in many cases other considerations may be more important.



                  For example, if there are many groups of beamed notes in succession, readability may be improved if the beams can be made to follow a reasonable contour, keeping beam directions consistent when practical. If the above message appeared between a bunch of beamed groups of low notes, and a bunch of beamed groups of high notes, it might make sense to have the preceding groups be beamed above the notes, the following groups be beamed below the notes, and the one group shown above slope down and to the right "between" the notes.



                  What's important is not to look at each beamed group independently, but to figure out an overall layout that visually makes sense. Oftentimes, there will be some beamed groups that could beamed reasonably well in several different ways if viewed only in isolation, but some of those ways would fit better than others in the context of surrounding groups.



                  Note also that an editor who is working as a member of a publisher's staff may need to adapt a more "mechanical" approach than someone who is working independently. If a publisher might end up having different parts of a piece laid out by different people, having those parts appear consistent may be more important than having them be maximally readable. If one is working independently, however, then trying to figure out what layout would be more readable would be more valuable.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 9 hours ago









                  supercatsupercat

                  2,4101015




                  2,4101015






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81458%2fknow-when-to-turn-notes-upside-downeighth-notes-sixteen-notes-etc%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      "Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'ON'. (on update cascade, on delete cascade,)

                      Alcedinidae

                      RAC Tourist Trophy