Is there a condition under which a child can be exempt from honoring his father?
This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.
I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.
Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.
Any sources or thoughts on this?
halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
add a comment |
This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.
I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.
Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.
Any sources or thoughts on this?
halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
1
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.
I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.
Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.
Any sources or thoughts on this?
halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
This is a serious question seeking sources that discuss the topic.
I speculate that a father that regrets his son being born, does not support him, does not teach him Torah or Mitzvos etc., is considered "תוהא על הראשונות" (Rambam: one that regrets doing a Mitzvah is not rewarded for it.) may somehow lose his right to Kibud Av of the child.
Maybe serious child abuse or even rape can suffice.
Any sources or thoughts on this?
halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring
halacha kibbud-av-veim-honoring
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
edited 2 days ago
WAF
16.9k43398
16.9k43398
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
asked Dec 23 at 23:37
Al Berko
4,400426
4,400426
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
1
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
1
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
1
1
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha (not defined), but Ram"a argues.
ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.
הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה.
(טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)
There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
add a comment |
I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").
No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...
So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha (not defined), but Ram"a argues.
ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.
הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה.
(טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)
There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
add a comment |
The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha (not defined), but Ram"a argues.
ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.
הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה.
(טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)
There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
add a comment |
The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha (not defined), but Ram"a argues.
ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.
הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה.
(טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)
There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
The Shulchan Aruch 240:18 discusses a father who is a Rasha. The Mechaber holds that there is Kibud av by a Rasha (not defined), but Ram"a argues.
ממזר חייב בכבוד אביו ובמוראו. אפילו היה אביו רשע ובעל עבירות – מכבדו ומתיירא ממנו.
הגה: ויש אומרים דאינו מחוייב לכבד אביו רשע, אלא אם כן עשה תשובה.
(טור ומרדכי פרק "כיצד", ובהגהות מיימוני פרק שישי דהלכות ממרים.)
There is a very good Hakira article on this subject.
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
edited 2 days ago
Al Berko
4,400426
4,400426
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
answered Dec 24 at 0:32
sam
24.8k14795
24.8k14795
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
2
2
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
Good answer, +1. Consider summarizing some of the points in the article.
– רבות מחשבות
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
1. Thank you. 2. Do we say then that Sefardim honor anyway and Ashkenazis are exempt? :) How does יש אמרים value? I read Tur but he sounds very distant - a very weak proof (from a stolen cow...). 2.5 A very serious (albeit a bit biased) article. I also think it's worth to try to summarize it to the answer would be full and exhaustive.
– Al Berko
2 days ago
add a comment |
I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").
No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...
So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").
No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...
So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").
No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...
So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I think one can shed light on this issue by examining the sources regarding the term "honor" (sometimes translated also as "respect").
No where does it say to love, appreciate, etc etc. In fact I heard one Rabbi asked by a woman, what if the situation is so tense that every time she tries talking to her mother, things get dicey, and it seems her mother doesn't even want to talk to her. The rabbi's response: you honor her by NOT talking to her...
So yes, honor is required; but look closely at what practical implications this has in halacha.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
answered 2 days ago
Ysiegel
1113
1113
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Ysiegel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
"On the day that I was born, Daddy sat down and cried..."--Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia
– Gary
Dec 23 at 23:43
Even a mamzer has to honor his parents, so the answer’s probably “no.”
– DonielF
Dec 24 at 2:05
1
@donielF a rasha is diff,see my answer
– sam
Dec 24 at 2:36
זכור... כבד. Shabbat
– kouty
2 days ago