Shouldn't “the exact same” always be “exactly the same”?












4














I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
    – user730
    Aug 24 '10 at 5:27










  • The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
    – kiamlaluno
    Aug 27 '10 at 10:39






  • 2




    A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
    – sumelic
    Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
















4














I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
    – user730
    Aug 24 '10 at 5:27










  • The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
    – kiamlaluno
    Aug 27 '10 at 10:39






  • 2




    A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
    – sumelic
    Jan 19 '16 at 9:06














4












4








4


4





I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?










share|improve this question















I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?







grammaticality






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 1 '11 at 17:54









simchona

30.6k5110139




30.6k5110139










asked Aug 24 '10 at 5:21









Gary

1,76031619




1,76031619








  • 1




    SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
    – user730
    Aug 24 '10 at 5:27










  • The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
    – kiamlaluno
    Aug 27 '10 at 10:39






  • 2




    A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
    – sumelic
    Jan 19 '16 at 9:06














  • 1




    SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
    – user730
    Aug 24 '10 at 5:27










  • The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
    – kiamlaluno
    Aug 27 '10 at 10:39






  • 2




    A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
    – sumelic
    Jan 19 '16 at 9:06








1




1




SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27




SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27












The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39




The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39




2




2




A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06




A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06










10 Answers
10






active

oldest

votes


















7














According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:



http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



And here it is in British English:



http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:




In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”




However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:




The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).



Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....




Proponents of the phrase note, however:




Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”



I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.



If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”




Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.






share|improve this answer





























    3














    I can imagine a slight difference.




    Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.




    So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.




    Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.




    Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...






    share|improve this answer























    • This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
      – Ieuan Stanley
      Jan 19 '16 at 11:00










    • I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
      – Adrian
      Jan 19 '16 at 16:46



















    2














    In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.






    share|improve this answer





























      2














      It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".




      Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.



      Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.







      share|improve this answer





























        0














        The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.



        Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.






        share|improve this answer





























          0














          "Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".




          My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.



          The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
          Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.




          I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".






          share|improve this answer































            0














            People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).



            The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.



            In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.



            Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
            'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
            'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)



            Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.






            share|improve this answer























            • @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
              – klaar
              Jan 19 '16 at 9:31












            • @AndyT And done.
              – klaar
              Jan 19 '16 at 10:35










            • Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
              – AndyT
              Jan 19 '16 at 10:39



















            0














            I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.



            First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.



            Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.



            The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.






            share|improve this answer





















            • Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
              – Helmar
              Sep 29 '16 at 11:42










            • If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
              – Kurt Weber
              Dec 20 at 4:38



















            0














            I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.



            There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.



            One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.



            The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.


















            • Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
              – Andrew Leach
              Dec 19 at 23:19










            • Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
              – Chappo
              Dec 19 at 23:20










            • @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
              – Duckisaduckisaduck
              Dec 20 at 0:27






            • 1




              If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
              – Sven Yargs
              Dec 20 at 0:29










            • It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
              – Kurt Weber
              Dec 20 at 4:37





















            -4














            No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 2




              Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
              – Nij
              Jan 25 at 6:14











            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "97"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1808%2fshouldnt-the-exact-same-always-be-exactly-the-same%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            10 Answers
            10






            active

            oldest

            votes








            10 Answers
            10






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            7














            According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:



            http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



            And here it is in British English:



            http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



            Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:




            In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”




            However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:




            The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).



            Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....




            Proponents of the phrase note, however:




            Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”



            I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.



            If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”




            Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.






            share|improve this answer


























              7














              According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:



              http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



              And here it is in British English:



              http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



              Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:




              In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”




              However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:




              The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).



              Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....




              Proponents of the phrase note, however:




              Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”



              I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.



              If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”




              Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.






              share|improve this answer
























                7












                7








                7






                According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:



                http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



                And here it is in British English:



                http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



                Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:




                In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”




                However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:




                The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).



                Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....




                Proponents of the phrase note, however:




                Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”



                I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.



                If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”




                Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.






                share|improve this answer












                According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:



                http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



                And here it is in British English:



                http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000



                Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:




                In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”




                However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:




                The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).



                Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....




                Proponents of the phrase note, however:




                Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”



                I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.



                If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”




                Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Sep 1 '11 at 3:30









                simchona

                30.6k5110139




                30.6k5110139

























                    3














                    I can imagine a slight difference.




                    Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.




                    So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.




                    Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.




                    Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...






                    share|improve this answer























                    • This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                      – Ieuan Stanley
                      Jan 19 '16 at 11:00










                    • I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                      – Adrian
                      Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
















                    3














                    I can imagine a slight difference.




                    Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.




                    So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.




                    Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.




                    Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...






                    share|improve this answer























                    • This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                      – Ieuan Stanley
                      Jan 19 '16 at 11:00










                    • I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                      – Adrian
                      Jan 19 '16 at 16:46














                    3












                    3








                    3






                    I can imagine a slight difference.




                    Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.




                    So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.




                    Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.




                    Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...






                    share|improve this answer














                    I can imagine a slight difference.




                    Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.




                    So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.




                    Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.




                    Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited Jan 19 '16 at 13:29

























                    answered Dec 31 '13 at 16:55









                    GEdgar

                    13.2k22043




                    13.2k22043












                    • This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                      – Ieuan Stanley
                      Jan 19 '16 at 11:00










                    • I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                      – Adrian
                      Jan 19 '16 at 16:46


















                    • This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                      – Ieuan Stanley
                      Jan 19 '16 at 11:00










                    • I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                      – Adrian
                      Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
















                    This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                    – Ieuan Stanley
                    Jan 19 '16 at 11:00




                    This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
                    – Ieuan Stanley
                    Jan 19 '16 at 11:00












                    I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                    – Adrian
                    Jan 19 '16 at 16:46




                    I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
                    – Adrian
                    Jan 19 '16 at 16:46











                    2














                    In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.






                    share|improve this answer


























                      2














                      In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.






                      share|improve this answer
























                        2












                        2








                        2






                        In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.






                        share|improve this answer












                        In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered Aug 24 '10 at 10:37









                        Steve Melnikoff

                        5,6162541




                        5,6162541























                            2














                            It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".




                            Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.



                            Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.







                            share|improve this answer


























                              2














                              It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".




                              Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.



                              Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.







                              share|improve this answer
























                                2












                                2








                                2






                                It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".




                                Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.



                                Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.







                                share|improve this answer












                                It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".




                                Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.



                                Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.








                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Dec 31 '13 at 15:26









                                Erofire

                                366




                                366























                                    0














                                    The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.



                                    Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      0














                                      The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.



                                      Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.






                                      share|improve this answer
























                                        0












                                        0








                                        0






                                        The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.



                                        Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.






                                        share|improve this answer












                                        The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.



                                        Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.







                                        share|improve this answer












                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer










                                        answered May 25 '14 at 3:41









                                        Erik Kowal

                                        25.4k13885




                                        25.4k13885























                                            0














                                            "Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".




                                            My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.



                                            The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
                                            Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.




                                            I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".






                                            share|improve this answer




























                                              0














                                              "Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".




                                              My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.



                                              The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
                                              Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.




                                              I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".






                                              share|improve this answer


























                                                0












                                                0








                                                0






                                                "Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".




                                                My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.



                                                The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
                                                Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.




                                                I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".






                                                share|improve this answer














                                                "Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".




                                                My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.



                                                The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
                                                Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.




                                                I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".







                                                share|improve this answer














                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer








                                                edited May 25 '14 at 3:51









                                                FracturedRetina

                                                1,04931225




                                                1,04931225










                                                answered May 25 '14 at 2:14









                                                Dale Drader

                                                1




                                                1























                                                    0














                                                    People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).



                                                    The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.



                                                    In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.



                                                    Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
                                                    'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
                                                    'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)



                                                    Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.






                                                    share|improve this answer























                                                    • @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 9:31












                                                    • @AndyT And done.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:35










                                                    • Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                      – AndyT
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
















                                                    0














                                                    People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).



                                                    The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.



                                                    In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.



                                                    Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
                                                    'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
                                                    'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)



                                                    Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.






                                                    share|improve this answer























                                                    • @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 9:31












                                                    • @AndyT And done.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:35










                                                    • Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                      – AndyT
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:39














                                                    0












                                                    0








                                                    0






                                                    People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).



                                                    The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.



                                                    In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.



                                                    Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
                                                    'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
                                                    'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)



                                                    Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.






                                                    share|improve this answer














                                                    People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).



                                                    The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.



                                                    In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.



                                                    Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
                                                    'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
                                                    'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)



                                                    Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.







                                                    share|improve this answer














                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer








                                                    edited Jan 19 '16 at 10:37

























                                                    answered Jan 19 '16 at 8:33









                                                    klaar

                                                    1015




                                                    1015












                                                    • @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 9:31












                                                    • @AndyT And done.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:35










                                                    • Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                      – AndyT
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:39


















                                                    • @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 9:31












                                                    • @AndyT And done.
                                                      – klaar
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:35










                                                    • Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                      – AndyT
                                                      Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
















                                                    @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                    – klaar
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 9:31






                                                    @AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
                                                    – klaar
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 9:31














                                                    @AndyT And done.
                                                    – klaar
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 10:35




                                                    @AndyT And done.
                                                    – klaar
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 10:35












                                                    Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                    – AndyT
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 10:39




                                                    Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
                                                    – AndyT
                                                    Jan 19 '16 at 10:39











                                                    0














                                                    I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.



                                                    First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.



                                                    Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.



                                                    The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.






                                                    share|improve this answer





















                                                    • Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                      – Helmar
                                                      Sep 29 '16 at 11:42










                                                    • If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:38
















                                                    0














                                                    I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.



                                                    First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.



                                                    Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.



                                                    The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.






                                                    share|improve this answer





















                                                    • Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                      – Helmar
                                                      Sep 29 '16 at 11:42










                                                    • If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:38














                                                    0












                                                    0








                                                    0






                                                    I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.



                                                    First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.



                                                    Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.



                                                    The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.






                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                    I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.



                                                    First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.



                                                    Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.



                                                    The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.







                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    answered Sep 29 '16 at 9:29









                                                    Leonard Epema

                                                    1




                                                    1












                                                    • Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                      – Helmar
                                                      Sep 29 '16 at 11:42










                                                    • If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:38


















                                                    • Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                      – Helmar
                                                      Sep 29 '16 at 11:42










                                                    • If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:38
















                                                    Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                    – Helmar
                                                    Sep 29 '16 at 11:42




                                                    Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
                                                    – Helmar
                                                    Sep 29 '16 at 11:42












                                                    If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                    – Kurt Weber
                                                    Dec 20 at 4:38




                                                    If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
                                                    – Kurt Weber
                                                    Dec 20 at 4:38











                                                    0














                                                    I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.



                                                    There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.



                                                    One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.



                                                    The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.






                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                                    • Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                      – Andrew Leach
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:19










                                                    • Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                      – Chappo
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:20










                                                    • @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                      – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:27






                                                    • 1




                                                      If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                      – Sven Yargs
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:29










                                                    • It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:37


















                                                    0














                                                    I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.



                                                    There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.



                                                    One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.



                                                    The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.






                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                                    • Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                      – Andrew Leach
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:19










                                                    • Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                      – Chappo
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:20










                                                    • @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                      – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:27






                                                    • 1




                                                      If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                      – Sven Yargs
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:29










                                                    • It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:37
















                                                    0












                                                    0








                                                    0






                                                    I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.



                                                    There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.



                                                    One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.



                                                    The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.






                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                    I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.



                                                    There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.



                                                    One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.



                                                    The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.







                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer








                                                    edited Dec 20 at 1:32





















                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                    answered Dec 19 at 23:00









                                                    K. Walten Spann

                                                    11




                                                    11




                                                    New contributor




                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                                    New contributor





                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                    K. Walten Spann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                                    • Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                      – Andrew Leach
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:19










                                                    • Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                      – Chappo
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:20










                                                    • @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                      – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:27






                                                    • 1




                                                      If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                      – Sven Yargs
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:29










                                                    • It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:37




















                                                    • Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                      – Andrew Leach
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:19










                                                    • Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                      – Chappo
                                                      Dec 19 at 23:20










                                                    • @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                      – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:27






                                                    • 1




                                                      If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                      – Sven Yargs
                                                      Dec 20 at 0:29










                                                    • It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                      – Kurt Weber
                                                      Dec 20 at 4:37


















                                                    Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                    – Andrew Leach
                                                    Dec 19 at 23:19




                                                    Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
                                                    – Andrew Leach
                                                    Dec 19 at 23:19












                                                    Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                    – Chappo
                                                    Dec 19 at 23:20




                                                    Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
                                                    – Chappo
                                                    Dec 19 at 23:20












                                                    @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                    – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                    Dec 20 at 0:27




                                                    @K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
                                                    – Duckisaduckisaduck
                                                    Dec 20 at 0:27




                                                    1




                                                    1




                                                    If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                    – Sven Yargs
                                                    Dec 20 at 0:29




                                                    If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
                                                    – Sven Yargs
                                                    Dec 20 at 0:29












                                                    It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                    – Kurt Weber
                                                    Dec 20 at 4:37






                                                    It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
                                                    – Kurt Weber
                                                    Dec 20 at 4:37













                                                    -4














                                                    No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.






                                                    share|improve this answer

















                                                    • 2




                                                      Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                      – Nij
                                                      Jan 25 at 6:14
















                                                    -4














                                                    No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.






                                                    share|improve this answer

















                                                    • 2




                                                      Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                      – Nij
                                                      Jan 25 at 6:14














                                                    -4












                                                    -4








                                                    -4






                                                    No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.






                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                    No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.







                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    answered Nov 7 '15 at 0:17









                                                    jbinsb

                                                    1




                                                    1








                                                    • 2




                                                      Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                      – Nij
                                                      Jan 25 at 6:14














                                                    • 2




                                                      Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                      – Nij
                                                      Jan 25 at 6:14








                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                    – Nij
                                                    Jan 25 at 6:14




                                                    Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
                                                    – Nij
                                                    Jan 25 at 6:14


















                                                    draft saved

                                                    draft discarded




















































                                                    Thanks for contributing an answer to English Language & Usage Stack Exchange!


                                                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                    But avoid



                                                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                                                    Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                                                    Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                                                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                    But avoid



                                                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                                    draft saved


                                                    draft discarded














                                                    StackExchange.ready(
                                                    function () {
                                                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1808%2fshouldnt-the-exact-same-always-be-exactly-the-same%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                                    }
                                                    );

                                                    Post as a guest















                                                    Required, but never shown





















































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown

































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Popular posts from this blog

                                                    If I really need a card on my start hand, how many mulligans make sense? [duplicate]

                                                    Alcedinidae

                                                    Can an atomic nucleus contain both particles and antiparticles? [duplicate]