Shouldn't “the exact same” always be “exactly the same”?
I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?
grammaticality
add a comment |
I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?
grammaticality
1
SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
2
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
add a comment |
I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?
grammaticality
I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?
grammaticality
grammaticality
edited Sep 1 '11 at 17:54
simchona
30.6k5110139
30.6k5110139
asked Aug 24 '10 at 5:21
Gary
1,76031619
1,76031619
1
SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
2
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
add a comment |
1
SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
2
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
1
1
SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
2
2
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06
add a comment |
10 Answers
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oldest
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According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
And here it is in British English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:
In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”
However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:
The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).
Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....
Proponents of the phrase note, however:
Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”
I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.
If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”
Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.
add a comment |
I can imagine a slight difference.
Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.
So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.
Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.
Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
add a comment |
In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.
add a comment |
It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.
add a comment |
The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.
Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.
add a comment |
"Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".
My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.
The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.
I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".
add a comment |
People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).
The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.
In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.
Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)
Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
add a comment |
I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.
First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.
Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.
The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
add a comment |
I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.
There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.
One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.
The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.
New contributor
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
add a comment |
No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
add a comment |
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According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
And here it is in British English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:
In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”
However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:
The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).
Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....
Proponents of the phrase note, however:
Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”
I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.
If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”
Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.
add a comment |
According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
And here it is in British English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:
In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”
However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:
The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).
Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....
Proponents of the phrase note, however:
Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”
I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.
If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”
Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.
add a comment |
According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
And here it is in British English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:
In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”
However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:
The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).
Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....
Proponents of the phrase note, however:
Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”
I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.
If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”
Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.
According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
And here it is in British English:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000
Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:
In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”
However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:
The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).
Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....
Proponents of the phrase note, however:
Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”
I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.
If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”
Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.
answered Sep 1 '11 at 3:30
simchona
30.6k5110139
30.6k5110139
add a comment |
add a comment |
I can imagine a slight difference.
Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.
So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.
Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.
Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
add a comment |
I can imagine a slight difference.
Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.
So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.
Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.
Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
add a comment |
I can imagine a slight difference.
Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.
So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.
Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.
Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...
I can imagine a slight difference.
Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.
So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.
Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.
Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...
edited Jan 19 '16 at 13:29
answered Dec 31 '13 at 16:55
GEdgar
13.2k22043
13.2k22043
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
add a comment |
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
This is something I was thinking as well, but I don't know whether there's any evidence to back up this usage difference!
– Ieuan Stanley
Jan 19 '16 at 11:00
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
I was thinking something similar: "to be X", "to be exactly X" (where exactly modifies the verb to be), and "to be the exact same" (where "exact same" functions as an object)
– Adrian
Jan 19 '16 at 16:46
add a comment |
In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.
add a comment |
In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.
add a comment |
In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.
In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.
answered Aug 24 '10 at 10:37
Steve Melnikoff
5,6162541
5,6162541
add a comment |
add a comment |
It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.
add a comment |
It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.
add a comment |
It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.
It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.
Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.
answered Dec 31 '13 at 15:26
Erofire
366
366
add a comment |
add a comment |
The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.
Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.
add a comment |
The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.
Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.
add a comment |
The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.
Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.
The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.
Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.
answered May 25 '14 at 3:41
Erik Kowal
25.4k13885
25.4k13885
add a comment |
add a comment |
"Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".
My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.
The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.
I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".
add a comment |
"Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".
My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.
The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.
I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".
add a comment |
"Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".
My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.
The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.
I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".
"Exact same" should be identical, in the same way that "At that point in time" should be "Then".
My mother wore the exact same suit that she was married in on their anniversary for 30 years.
The two women could not have worn the exact same outfits at the same time to the party.
Identical outfits would not be identical after one had been worn. Ask any bloodhound.
I avoided using "exact same" until SSA Dr. Spencer Reid used it on "Criminal Minds".
edited May 25 '14 at 3:51
FracturedRetina
1,04931225
1,04931225
answered May 25 '14 at 2:14
Dale Drader
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).
The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.
In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.
Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)
Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
add a comment |
People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).
The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.
In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.
Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)
Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
add a comment |
People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).
The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.
In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.
Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)
Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.
People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).
The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.
In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.
Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point):
'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun)
'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)
Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.
edited Jan 19 '16 at 10:37
answered Jan 19 '16 at 8:33
klaar
1015
1015
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
add a comment |
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT I'm sorry, but I meant for my answer to only apply when 'the same' was used as an adjective; e.g. 'the exact same car', which is wrong because same here is an adjective. When 'same' is used without another noun, then it is a pronoun indeed, falsifying my statement. -- edit: Added to my answer.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 9:31
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
@AndyT And done.
– klaar
Jan 19 '16 at 10:35
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
Much better. My previous comments are no longer relevant and will be deleted forthwith.
– AndyT
Jan 19 '16 at 10:39
add a comment |
I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.
First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.
Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.
The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
add a comment |
I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.
First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.
Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.
The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
add a comment |
I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.
First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.
Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.
The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.
I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.
First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.
Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.
The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.
answered Sep 29 '16 at 9:29
Leonard Epema
1
1
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
add a comment |
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
Welcome to ELU.SE.This site strives to provide objective answers. Take the site tour or have a look at the help center to find out more about good answers. As it stands your answer is purely subjective. Please provide some references.
– Helmar
Sep 29 '16 at 11:42
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
If it's in common usage, then by definition it is not wrong. Common usage is the only determinant of correctness in language.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:38
add a comment |
I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.
There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.
One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.
The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.
New contributor
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
add a comment |
I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.
There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.
One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.
The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.
New contributor
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
add a comment |
I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.
There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.
One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.
The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.
New contributor
I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking good English.
There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made by so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.
One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.
The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered good English.
New contributor
edited Dec 20 at 1:32
New contributor
answered Dec 19 at 23:00
K. Walten Spann
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
add a comment |
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Welcome to ELU. There doesn't appear to be anything in this answer which makes it different from several others, nor does it explain why "the exact same" is wrong: you simply assert that it is. Could you edit your answer to improve it?
– Andrew Leach♦
Dec 19 at 23:19
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
Hi K., welcome to EL&U. Please note, this site is different from others: it's not a forum, and personal views and grammar gripes don't constitute the kind of answer we're looking for. An answer on this site is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. See How to Answer for further guidance, and take the EL&U Tour. :-)
– Chappo
Dec 19 at 23:20
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
@K. Walten Spann I'm sure you are righteously incensed, this is however a question and answer site, following Chappo's advice is best to begin with.
– Duckisaduckisaduck
Dec 20 at 0:27
1
1
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
If both "the exact same" and "exactly the same" are redundant, does it follow that "more or less the same" is nonsensical? How about "for all intents and purposes the same"? And is "essentially the same" nonsensical or redundant?
– Sven Yargs
Dec 20 at 0:29
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
It's not a mistake. There is no "correctness" in language outside of common usage. When it comes to language, the one person in the 99 vs. 1 scenario is wrong, because correctness in language is determined entirely by common usage. This is Linguistics 101-level stuff.
– Kurt Weber
Dec 20 at 4:37
add a comment |
No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
add a comment |
No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
add a comment |
No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.
No comma and no "exact same." Ever. It's wrong. One adjective modifying another. That's not opinion. It's how English works. It's no more sound than saying "ain't." People do it, but it's still wrong. Grammatically, not morally.
answered Nov 7 '15 at 0:17
jbinsb
1
1
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
add a comment |
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
2
2
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
Same is being used as noun, so your complaint is pointless.
– Nij
Jan 25 at 6:14
add a comment |
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SFAICT nobody inserts a comma in "the exact same"; the phrase can stand by itself, punctuation-less. Which to use seems to be a matter of taste (viz. "He keeps wearing the exact same pair of pants" vs. "He keeps wearing exactly the same pair of pants", but the former sounds better for me.)
– user730
Aug 24 '10 at 5:27
The British National Corpus reports that exactly the same is found in 1329 sentences, and exact same in 22 sentences. The Corpus of Contemporary American reports that in academic texts, exactly the same is used more times (6 times more) than exact time.
– kiamlaluno
Aug 27 '10 at 10:39
2
A third variant exists, doesn't it: "the same exact..."
– sumelic
Jan 19 '16 at 9:06