Was the tugboat ever part of a WWII battle group?












25















It would seem a pretty logical addition to a WWII battle group to have one of more tugs for the capital ships (heck, any ship), yet I don't see much evidence of that. Let me elaborate.



I was an Army officer for support company. If I recall correctly (it was a LONG time ago), we had several wreckers whose jobs was to retrieve tanks or other vehicles that had been disabled. A couple were fully armored and capable of towing the heavy tanks of the day (M60A3 and M1, just introduced) under fire if necessary.



I have been reading about several incidents in WWII involving US capital ships: Yorktown, Hornet, and Chicago. They were crippled and trying to make it to safer waters. Of the ships, only the Chicago was ever towed by a tugboat (the equivalent of my wrecker) and not at first. Without a tugboat, ships like the Yorktown could only be towed at 3-5 knots, but I hear of Navajo class tugs with speeds better than 15 knots. Under load I haven't been able to find a source but I would think it much better than 3-5 knots.



Considering how important capital ships were, especially carriers like Hornet and Yorktown, why wasn't there a tug or two handy in the event they became disabled? Seems like in the case of Yorktown especially, speedy evacuation could have saved her. In addition, using a tug would mean freeing another ship to continue the fight. Why weren't there tugs available at Midway, Santa Cruz or other confrontations where they might have been able to quickly take other ships to safer waters? TIA










share|improve this question























  • It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

    – Clockwork-Muse
    11 hours ago











  • As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

    – Mark
    8 hours ago
















25















It would seem a pretty logical addition to a WWII battle group to have one of more tugs for the capital ships (heck, any ship), yet I don't see much evidence of that. Let me elaborate.



I was an Army officer for support company. If I recall correctly (it was a LONG time ago), we had several wreckers whose jobs was to retrieve tanks or other vehicles that had been disabled. A couple were fully armored and capable of towing the heavy tanks of the day (M60A3 and M1, just introduced) under fire if necessary.



I have been reading about several incidents in WWII involving US capital ships: Yorktown, Hornet, and Chicago. They were crippled and trying to make it to safer waters. Of the ships, only the Chicago was ever towed by a tugboat (the equivalent of my wrecker) and not at first. Without a tugboat, ships like the Yorktown could only be towed at 3-5 knots, but I hear of Navajo class tugs with speeds better than 15 knots. Under load I haven't been able to find a source but I would think it much better than 3-5 knots.



Considering how important capital ships were, especially carriers like Hornet and Yorktown, why wasn't there a tug or two handy in the event they became disabled? Seems like in the case of Yorktown especially, speedy evacuation could have saved her. In addition, using a tug would mean freeing another ship to continue the fight. Why weren't there tugs available at Midway, Santa Cruz or other confrontations where they might have been able to quickly take other ships to safer waters? TIA










share|improve this question























  • It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

    – Clockwork-Muse
    11 hours ago











  • As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

    – Mark
    8 hours ago














25












25








25








It would seem a pretty logical addition to a WWII battle group to have one of more tugs for the capital ships (heck, any ship), yet I don't see much evidence of that. Let me elaborate.



I was an Army officer for support company. If I recall correctly (it was a LONG time ago), we had several wreckers whose jobs was to retrieve tanks or other vehicles that had been disabled. A couple were fully armored and capable of towing the heavy tanks of the day (M60A3 and M1, just introduced) under fire if necessary.



I have been reading about several incidents in WWII involving US capital ships: Yorktown, Hornet, and Chicago. They were crippled and trying to make it to safer waters. Of the ships, only the Chicago was ever towed by a tugboat (the equivalent of my wrecker) and not at first. Without a tugboat, ships like the Yorktown could only be towed at 3-5 knots, but I hear of Navajo class tugs with speeds better than 15 knots. Under load I haven't been able to find a source but I would think it much better than 3-5 knots.



Considering how important capital ships were, especially carriers like Hornet and Yorktown, why wasn't there a tug or two handy in the event they became disabled? Seems like in the case of Yorktown especially, speedy evacuation could have saved her. In addition, using a tug would mean freeing another ship to continue the fight. Why weren't there tugs available at Midway, Santa Cruz or other confrontations where they might have been able to quickly take other ships to safer waters? TIA










share|improve this question














It would seem a pretty logical addition to a WWII battle group to have one of more tugs for the capital ships (heck, any ship), yet I don't see much evidence of that. Let me elaborate.



I was an Army officer for support company. If I recall correctly (it was a LONG time ago), we had several wreckers whose jobs was to retrieve tanks or other vehicles that had been disabled. A couple were fully armored and capable of towing the heavy tanks of the day (M60A3 and M1, just introduced) under fire if necessary.



I have been reading about several incidents in WWII involving US capital ships: Yorktown, Hornet, and Chicago. They were crippled and trying to make it to safer waters. Of the ships, only the Chicago was ever towed by a tugboat (the equivalent of my wrecker) and not at first. Without a tugboat, ships like the Yorktown could only be towed at 3-5 knots, but I hear of Navajo class tugs with speeds better than 15 knots. Under load I haven't been able to find a source but I would think it much better than 3-5 knots.



Considering how important capital ships were, especially carriers like Hornet and Yorktown, why wasn't there a tug or two handy in the event they became disabled? Seems like in the case of Yorktown especially, speedy evacuation could have saved her. In addition, using a tug would mean freeing another ship to continue the fight. Why weren't there tugs available at Midway, Santa Cruz or other confrontations where they might have been able to quickly take other ships to safer waters? TIA







world-war-two navy






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









kmccartykmccarty

29828




29828













  • It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

    – Clockwork-Muse
    11 hours ago











  • As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

    – Mark
    8 hours ago



















  • It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

    – Clockwork-Muse
    11 hours ago











  • As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

    – Mark
    8 hours ago

















It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

– Clockwork-Muse
11 hours ago





It looks like the Yorktown, at least, was taken under tow: the USS Vireo. Note that the Vireo topped out at 15 knots (and was making 9 heading towards the battle), while the Yorktown, after the initial damage sustained, was still capable of 20.

– Clockwork-Muse
11 hours ago













As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

– Mark
8 hours ago





As a rule of thumb, any time a task needs to be done in a combat zone that you'd expect a civilian ship to do, look for the destroyers: they're probably the ones doing it.

– Mark
8 hours ago










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















30














The US Navy certainly had ocean-going tugs during the Second World War. One example you mentioned was the Navajo-class, or Cherokee-class ocean-going fleet tugs (ATF), another were the Abnaki-class fleet tugs.



These vessels should not be confused with harbour tugs which perform a completely different function.



There are a number of sites that list US Navy ocean-going tugs, one example being this one that lists US Navy Ocean Tugs (AT, ATO, ATF, ATA, ATR)





Even given a top speed close to 15 knots, and a range of up to 6000 miles, these vessels couldn't come close to matching the speed of large naval vessels which could make over 30 knots. In addition, even though most of these vessels weren't completely unarmed, they were certainly only lightly armed compared to most combat ships.



For operations where speed was essential (the Battle of Midway being a great example), there was no way that one of these vessels could accompany a battle group, no matter how useful they might have been once combat operations began, and in their immediate aftermath.





However, some of these vessels certainly did accompany task forces in the Pacific theatre. For example, the USS Apache (ATF-67)



USS Apache




  • image source Wikimedia


served as part of Task Force 31 for the invasion of Bougainville in 1943, as part of Task Group 31.2 for an assault on Emirau Island in the Bismarck Archipelago in March 1944, and at Guadalcanal the following month. She then joined Task Group 53.1 in June 1944 to assist in the invasion of Saipan.



In these cases, the relatively slow speed and light armament of the ATF were not a significant disadvantage.





If you're interested in the operation of fleet tugs during the Second World War, the paper Fleet Tugs in World War II by Cmdr. Edward H. Lundquist may also be of interest.






share|improve this answer

































    9














    Operation Overlord, the allied invasion of Normandy began in August of 1943. Almost every boat available was thrown into the mix.




    Captain Publicover, Master of the U. S. War Shipping Administration
    Tug Farallon, was assigned to the task of towing vital military and
    naval equipment to the assault areas on the coast of France. By expert
    seamanship and navigational skill, and in spite of cross winds and
    rough seas, he accomplished his difficult task in a most efficient
    manner. His steadfast courage in the face of enemy artillery fire,
    heavily mined water, and sporadic air attack
    , was an inspiration to
    his crew. The courage and devotion to duty of Captain Publicover were
    in keeping with the best traditions of the United States Merchant
    Marine.





    Perry Adams of San Carlos, California, arrived
    at the former summer resort, Lee-on-Solent, just across from the Isle
    of Wight, in March of 1944. Adams was a Purser/Pharmacist's Mate on
    the tug, MV Farallon, which carried a crew of 32 mariners plus 11
    Naval Armed Guard.



    The MV Farallon was one of 10 War Shipping Administration tugs
    operated by Moran Towing of New York, in company with 2 U.S. Navy
    tugs, 2 Dutch tugs, and several British tugs. The MV Farallon was 195
    feet long, 37 feet wide, draft 15.5 feet, displacement 1,063 tons,
    2,250 horsepower and could do 14 knots in light conditions




    http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html






    During World War II the men of the Royal Navy’s Rescue Tug Service
    considered themselves neither fish nor fowl.



    Their expertise was essential, for ocean towage requires great skill
    and a cool head, but as volunteers from the Merchant Navy they had to
    sign what was known as the T.124T agreement, which put them under
    naval discipline for the duration of the war.
    https://www.forces.net/news/tri-service/tugs-war-untold-story-royal-navys-rescue-service







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















    • Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

      – R Leonard
      3 hours ago



















    5














    You need to take into account the effect of slow tugs on battle groups. If they remain together the max speed of the group is that of its slowest boat. 15 knots is darn slow by WW2, or even WW1, warship standards and would severely limit long distance deployments like in the Pacific.



    Tanks on the other hand are often, at least in the initial assault phases, before deep penetration exploitation, less likely to outrun their support vehicles.



    A "friendlier" environment to your concept, and more akin to your example of tank retrieval, would be near coastal operations, like in the North Sea during WW2.






    share|improve this answer































      2














      During combat operations, ships that were damaged and unable to steam on their own out of the combat zone, were typically towed by other combat vessels. As an example, the heavy cruiser USS Northampton attempted to tow the carrier USS Hornet at the battle of Santa Cruz:
      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer































        1














        The largest air-sea operation of the war (including the Pacific but excluding D-Day as too big to be one operation) was the Malta convoy of August 1942, Operation Pedestal. The Official History (Vol 2, Notes to Map 30) says that one tug was assigned to the oiling force and one to the "escort right through to Malta". No details are given, and since two of the four cruisers in this group were sunk and the other two damaged, it's a reasonable assumption that the tug, whatever her name, returned to Gibraltar while assisting a damaged ship. (It's also worth noting that the Official History is not infallible. It credits the saving of the Ohio to "the destroyer Penn and the minesweepers Rye and Ledbury"; Ledbury was actually a Hunt-class destroyer, whose captain remembers a fourth ship helping push the invaluable tanker on her way.)



        Tugs were often attached to convoys that were expected to come under attack, particularly when rescue ships were not available. The problem is that being neither merchant ships nor escorts, they were usually left out of the official reports.






        share|improve this answer
























        • Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

          – R Leonard
          3 hours ago





















        0














        No!



        A tugboat doesn't pull, or tug, it's load; rather it pushes it with that padded front end.



        enter image description here



        Their purpose is to nudge large ships around cramped harbours due to those ships having no steerageway at such low speeds. Their very low freeboard (height of gunnels above the water) makes them completely unsuitable for open water use, even though mush of the interior is compartmentalised. As they work entirely within the confines of small harbours they have no use for large fuel tanks, and consequently an operational range measured in hours rather than days and weeks.



        Further, they would be a severe liability in a naval battle due to their complete lack of armament or self defence.



        Also, paradoxically, large ships are capable of much faster speeds than smaller ones, due to the cube-square law (until strength of materials fails, of course). Top speed for a tugboat is typically about 14 knots, while top speed for open water vessels is above 30 knots; more than twice as great. Top speed for a tug under load. pushing a vessel orders of magnitude heavier, will be a tiny fraction of top speed, if only because the load vessel is no longer aerodynamic when being pushed sideways.



        To consider one of your examples, Midway, the as the crow flies distance to Pearl Harbor is about 850 NM; at least 84 hours travel time out for a tug at top speed, plus however long for one or more refuelings. Then several times that, at least, coming back with load. No port can be without its tugs for so long when other large vessels are constantly coming and going.






        share|improve this answer





















        • 10





          "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

          – alephzero
          22 hours ago













        • @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

          – Pieter Geerkens
          22 hours ago








        • 10





          Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

          – David Richerby
          18 hours ago








        • 2





          I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

          – James Moore
          12 hours ago











        • (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

          – James Moore
          11 hours ago











        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "324"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });














        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f50955%2fwas-the-tugboat-ever-part-of-a-wwii-battle-group%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes








        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        30














        The US Navy certainly had ocean-going tugs during the Second World War. One example you mentioned was the Navajo-class, or Cherokee-class ocean-going fleet tugs (ATF), another were the Abnaki-class fleet tugs.



        These vessels should not be confused with harbour tugs which perform a completely different function.



        There are a number of sites that list US Navy ocean-going tugs, one example being this one that lists US Navy Ocean Tugs (AT, ATO, ATF, ATA, ATR)





        Even given a top speed close to 15 knots, and a range of up to 6000 miles, these vessels couldn't come close to matching the speed of large naval vessels which could make over 30 knots. In addition, even though most of these vessels weren't completely unarmed, they were certainly only lightly armed compared to most combat ships.



        For operations where speed was essential (the Battle of Midway being a great example), there was no way that one of these vessels could accompany a battle group, no matter how useful they might have been once combat operations began, and in their immediate aftermath.





        However, some of these vessels certainly did accompany task forces in the Pacific theatre. For example, the USS Apache (ATF-67)



        USS Apache




        • image source Wikimedia


        served as part of Task Force 31 for the invasion of Bougainville in 1943, as part of Task Group 31.2 for an assault on Emirau Island in the Bismarck Archipelago in March 1944, and at Guadalcanal the following month. She then joined Task Group 53.1 in June 1944 to assist in the invasion of Saipan.



        In these cases, the relatively slow speed and light armament of the ATF were not a significant disadvantage.





        If you're interested in the operation of fleet tugs during the Second World War, the paper Fleet Tugs in World War II by Cmdr. Edward H. Lundquist may also be of interest.






        share|improve this answer






























          30














          The US Navy certainly had ocean-going tugs during the Second World War. One example you mentioned was the Navajo-class, or Cherokee-class ocean-going fleet tugs (ATF), another were the Abnaki-class fleet tugs.



          These vessels should not be confused with harbour tugs which perform a completely different function.



          There are a number of sites that list US Navy ocean-going tugs, one example being this one that lists US Navy Ocean Tugs (AT, ATO, ATF, ATA, ATR)





          Even given a top speed close to 15 knots, and a range of up to 6000 miles, these vessels couldn't come close to matching the speed of large naval vessels which could make over 30 knots. In addition, even though most of these vessels weren't completely unarmed, they were certainly only lightly armed compared to most combat ships.



          For operations where speed was essential (the Battle of Midway being a great example), there was no way that one of these vessels could accompany a battle group, no matter how useful they might have been once combat operations began, and in their immediate aftermath.





          However, some of these vessels certainly did accompany task forces in the Pacific theatre. For example, the USS Apache (ATF-67)



          USS Apache




          • image source Wikimedia


          served as part of Task Force 31 for the invasion of Bougainville in 1943, as part of Task Group 31.2 for an assault on Emirau Island in the Bismarck Archipelago in March 1944, and at Guadalcanal the following month. She then joined Task Group 53.1 in June 1944 to assist in the invasion of Saipan.



          In these cases, the relatively slow speed and light armament of the ATF were not a significant disadvantage.





          If you're interested in the operation of fleet tugs during the Second World War, the paper Fleet Tugs in World War II by Cmdr. Edward H. Lundquist may also be of interest.






          share|improve this answer




























            30












            30








            30







            The US Navy certainly had ocean-going tugs during the Second World War. One example you mentioned was the Navajo-class, or Cherokee-class ocean-going fleet tugs (ATF), another were the Abnaki-class fleet tugs.



            These vessels should not be confused with harbour tugs which perform a completely different function.



            There are a number of sites that list US Navy ocean-going tugs, one example being this one that lists US Navy Ocean Tugs (AT, ATO, ATF, ATA, ATR)





            Even given a top speed close to 15 knots, and a range of up to 6000 miles, these vessels couldn't come close to matching the speed of large naval vessels which could make over 30 knots. In addition, even though most of these vessels weren't completely unarmed, they were certainly only lightly armed compared to most combat ships.



            For operations where speed was essential (the Battle of Midway being a great example), there was no way that one of these vessels could accompany a battle group, no matter how useful they might have been once combat operations began, and in their immediate aftermath.





            However, some of these vessels certainly did accompany task forces in the Pacific theatre. For example, the USS Apache (ATF-67)



            USS Apache




            • image source Wikimedia


            served as part of Task Force 31 for the invasion of Bougainville in 1943, as part of Task Group 31.2 for an assault on Emirau Island in the Bismarck Archipelago in March 1944, and at Guadalcanal the following month. She then joined Task Group 53.1 in June 1944 to assist in the invasion of Saipan.



            In these cases, the relatively slow speed and light armament of the ATF were not a significant disadvantage.





            If you're interested in the operation of fleet tugs during the Second World War, the paper Fleet Tugs in World War II by Cmdr. Edward H. Lundquist may also be of interest.






            share|improve this answer















            The US Navy certainly had ocean-going tugs during the Second World War. One example you mentioned was the Navajo-class, or Cherokee-class ocean-going fleet tugs (ATF), another were the Abnaki-class fleet tugs.



            These vessels should not be confused with harbour tugs which perform a completely different function.



            There are a number of sites that list US Navy ocean-going tugs, one example being this one that lists US Navy Ocean Tugs (AT, ATO, ATF, ATA, ATR)





            Even given a top speed close to 15 knots, and a range of up to 6000 miles, these vessels couldn't come close to matching the speed of large naval vessels which could make over 30 knots. In addition, even though most of these vessels weren't completely unarmed, they were certainly only lightly armed compared to most combat ships.



            For operations where speed was essential (the Battle of Midway being a great example), there was no way that one of these vessels could accompany a battle group, no matter how useful they might have been once combat operations began, and in their immediate aftermath.





            However, some of these vessels certainly did accompany task forces in the Pacific theatre. For example, the USS Apache (ATF-67)



            USS Apache




            • image source Wikimedia


            served as part of Task Force 31 for the invasion of Bougainville in 1943, as part of Task Group 31.2 for an assault on Emirau Island in the Bismarck Archipelago in March 1944, and at Guadalcanal the following month. She then joined Task Group 53.1 in June 1944 to assist in the invasion of Saipan.



            In these cases, the relatively slow speed and light armament of the ATF were not a significant disadvantage.





            If you're interested in the operation of fleet tugs during the Second World War, the paper Fleet Tugs in World War II by Cmdr. Edward H. Lundquist may also be of interest.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 15 hours ago

























            answered yesterday









            sempaiscubasempaiscuba

            49.3k6170217




            49.3k6170217























                9














                Operation Overlord, the allied invasion of Normandy began in August of 1943. Almost every boat available was thrown into the mix.




                Captain Publicover, Master of the U. S. War Shipping Administration
                Tug Farallon, was assigned to the task of towing vital military and
                naval equipment to the assault areas on the coast of France. By expert
                seamanship and navigational skill, and in spite of cross winds and
                rough seas, he accomplished his difficult task in a most efficient
                manner. His steadfast courage in the face of enemy artillery fire,
                heavily mined water, and sporadic air attack
                , was an inspiration to
                his crew. The courage and devotion to duty of Captain Publicover were
                in keeping with the best traditions of the United States Merchant
                Marine.





                Perry Adams of San Carlos, California, arrived
                at the former summer resort, Lee-on-Solent, just across from the Isle
                of Wight, in March of 1944. Adams was a Purser/Pharmacist's Mate on
                the tug, MV Farallon, which carried a crew of 32 mariners plus 11
                Naval Armed Guard.



                The MV Farallon was one of 10 War Shipping Administration tugs
                operated by Moran Towing of New York, in company with 2 U.S. Navy
                tugs, 2 Dutch tugs, and several British tugs. The MV Farallon was 195
                feet long, 37 feet wide, draft 15.5 feet, displacement 1,063 tons,
                2,250 horsepower and could do 14 knots in light conditions




                http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html






                During World War II the men of the Royal Navy’s Rescue Tug Service
                considered themselves neither fish nor fowl.



                Their expertise was essential, for ocean towage requires great skill
                and a cool head, but as volunteers from the Merchant Navy they had to
                sign what was known as the T.124T agreement, which put them under
                naval discipline for the duration of the war.
                https://www.forces.net/news/tri-service/tugs-war-untold-story-royal-navys-rescue-service







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                • Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                  – R Leonard
                  3 hours ago
















                9














                Operation Overlord, the allied invasion of Normandy began in August of 1943. Almost every boat available was thrown into the mix.




                Captain Publicover, Master of the U. S. War Shipping Administration
                Tug Farallon, was assigned to the task of towing vital military and
                naval equipment to the assault areas on the coast of France. By expert
                seamanship and navigational skill, and in spite of cross winds and
                rough seas, he accomplished his difficult task in a most efficient
                manner. His steadfast courage in the face of enemy artillery fire,
                heavily mined water, and sporadic air attack
                , was an inspiration to
                his crew. The courage and devotion to duty of Captain Publicover were
                in keeping with the best traditions of the United States Merchant
                Marine.





                Perry Adams of San Carlos, California, arrived
                at the former summer resort, Lee-on-Solent, just across from the Isle
                of Wight, in March of 1944. Adams was a Purser/Pharmacist's Mate on
                the tug, MV Farallon, which carried a crew of 32 mariners plus 11
                Naval Armed Guard.



                The MV Farallon was one of 10 War Shipping Administration tugs
                operated by Moran Towing of New York, in company with 2 U.S. Navy
                tugs, 2 Dutch tugs, and several British tugs. The MV Farallon was 195
                feet long, 37 feet wide, draft 15.5 feet, displacement 1,063 tons,
                2,250 horsepower and could do 14 knots in light conditions




                http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html






                During World War II the men of the Royal Navy’s Rescue Tug Service
                considered themselves neither fish nor fowl.



                Their expertise was essential, for ocean towage requires great skill
                and a cool head, but as volunteers from the Merchant Navy they had to
                sign what was known as the T.124T agreement, which put them under
                naval discipline for the duration of the war.
                https://www.forces.net/news/tri-service/tugs-war-untold-story-royal-navys-rescue-service







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                • Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                  – R Leonard
                  3 hours ago














                9












                9








                9







                Operation Overlord, the allied invasion of Normandy began in August of 1943. Almost every boat available was thrown into the mix.




                Captain Publicover, Master of the U. S. War Shipping Administration
                Tug Farallon, was assigned to the task of towing vital military and
                naval equipment to the assault areas on the coast of France. By expert
                seamanship and navigational skill, and in spite of cross winds and
                rough seas, he accomplished his difficult task in a most efficient
                manner. His steadfast courage in the face of enemy artillery fire,
                heavily mined water, and sporadic air attack
                , was an inspiration to
                his crew. The courage and devotion to duty of Captain Publicover were
                in keeping with the best traditions of the United States Merchant
                Marine.





                Perry Adams of San Carlos, California, arrived
                at the former summer resort, Lee-on-Solent, just across from the Isle
                of Wight, in March of 1944. Adams was a Purser/Pharmacist's Mate on
                the tug, MV Farallon, which carried a crew of 32 mariners plus 11
                Naval Armed Guard.



                The MV Farallon was one of 10 War Shipping Administration tugs
                operated by Moran Towing of New York, in company with 2 U.S. Navy
                tugs, 2 Dutch tugs, and several British tugs. The MV Farallon was 195
                feet long, 37 feet wide, draft 15.5 feet, displacement 1,063 tons,
                2,250 horsepower and could do 14 knots in light conditions




                http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html






                During World War II the men of the Royal Navy’s Rescue Tug Service
                considered themselves neither fish nor fowl.



                Their expertise was essential, for ocean towage requires great skill
                and a cool head, but as volunteers from the Merchant Navy they had to
                sign what was known as the T.124T agreement, which put them under
                naval discipline for the duration of the war.
                https://www.forces.net/news/tri-service/tugs-war-untold-story-royal-navys-rescue-service







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.










                Operation Overlord, the allied invasion of Normandy began in August of 1943. Almost every boat available was thrown into the mix.




                Captain Publicover, Master of the U. S. War Shipping Administration
                Tug Farallon, was assigned to the task of towing vital military and
                naval equipment to the assault areas on the coast of France. By expert
                seamanship and navigational skill, and in spite of cross winds and
                rough seas, he accomplished his difficult task in a most efficient
                manner. His steadfast courage in the face of enemy artillery fire,
                heavily mined water, and sporadic air attack
                , was an inspiration to
                his crew. The courage and devotion to duty of Captain Publicover were
                in keeping with the best traditions of the United States Merchant
                Marine.





                Perry Adams of San Carlos, California, arrived
                at the former summer resort, Lee-on-Solent, just across from the Isle
                of Wight, in March of 1944. Adams was a Purser/Pharmacist's Mate on
                the tug, MV Farallon, which carried a crew of 32 mariners plus 11
                Naval Armed Guard.



                The MV Farallon was one of 10 War Shipping Administration tugs
                operated by Moran Towing of New York, in company with 2 U.S. Navy
                tugs, 2 Dutch tugs, and several British tugs. The MV Farallon was 195
                feet long, 37 feet wide, draft 15.5 feet, displacement 1,063 tons,
                2,250 horsepower and could do 14 knots in light conditions




                http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html






                During World War II the men of the Royal Navy’s Rescue Tug Service
                considered themselves neither fish nor fowl.



                Their expertise was essential, for ocean towage requires great skill
                and a cool head, but as volunteers from the Merchant Navy they had to
                sign what was known as the T.124T agreement, which put them under
                naval discipline for the duration of the war.
                https://www.forces.net/news/tri-service/tugs-war-untold-story-royal-navys-rescue-service








                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 13 hours ago





















                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 22 hours ago









                chasly from UKchasly from UK

                1913




                1913




                New contributor




                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                chasly from UK is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.













                • Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                  – R Leonard
                  3 hours ago



















                • Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                  – R Leonard
                  3 hours ago

















                Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                – R Leonard
                3 hours ago





                Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, was in June 1944.

                – R Leonard
                3 hours ago











                5














                You need to take into account the effect of slow tugs on battle groups. If they remain together the max speed of the group is that of its slowest boat. 15 knots is darn slow by WW2, or even WW1, warship standards and would severely limit long distance deployments like in the Pacific.



                Tanks on the other hand are often, at least in the initial assault phases, before deep penetration exploitation, less likely to outrun their support vehicles.



                A "friendlier" environment to your concept, and more akin to your example of tank retrieval, would be near coastal operations, like in the North Sea during WW2.






                share|improve this answer




























                  5














                  You need to take into account the effect of slow tugs on battle groups. If they remain together the max speed of the group is that of its slowest boat. 15 knots is darn slow by WW2, or even WW1, warship standards and would severely limit long distance deployments like in the Pacific.



                  Tanks on the other hand are often, at least in the initial assault phases, before deep penetration exploitation, less likely to outrun their support vehicles.



                  A "friendlier" environment to your concept, and more akin to your example of tank retrieval, would be near coastal operations, like in the North Sea during WW2.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    5












                    5








                    5







                    You need to take into account the effect of slow tugs on battle groups. If they remain together the max speed of the group is that of its slowest boat. 15 knots is darn slow by WW2, or even WW1, warship standards and would severely limit long distance deployments like in the Pacific.



                    Tanks on the other hand are often, at least in the initial assault phases, before deep penetration exploitation, less likely to outrun their support vehicles.



                    A "friendlier" environment to your concept, and more akin to your example of tank retrieval, would be near coastal operations, like in the North Sea during WW2.






                    share|improve this answer













                    You need to take into account the effect of slow tugs on battle groups. If they remain together the max speed of the group is that of its slowest boat. 15 knots is darn slow by WW2, or even WW1, warship standards and would severely limit long distance deployments like in the Pacific.



                    Tanks on the other hand are often, at least in the initial assault phases, before deep penetration exploitation, less likely to outrun their support vehicles.



                    A "friendlier" environment to your concept, and more akin to your example of tank retrieval, would be near coastal operations, like in the North Sea during WW2.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    Italian PhilosopherItalian Philosopher

                    894513




                    894513























                        2














                        During combat operations, ships that were damaged and unable to steam on their own out of the combat zone, were typically towed by other combat vessels. As an example, the heavy cruiser USS Northampton attempted to tow the carrier USS Hornet at the battle of Santa Cruz:
                        enter image description here






                        share|improve this answer




























                          2














                          During combat operations, ships that were damaged and unable to steam on their own out of the combat zone, were typically towed by other combat vessels. As an example, the heavy cruiser USS Northampton attempted to tow the carrier USS Hornet at the battle of Santa Cruz:
                          enter image description here






                          share|improve this answer


























                            2












                            2








                            2







                            During combat operations, ships that were damaged and unable to steam on their own out of the combat zone, were typically towed by other combat vessels. As an example, the heavy cruiser USS Northampton attempted to tow the carrier USS Hornet at the battle of Santa Cruz:
                            enter image description here






                            share|improve this answer













                            During combat operations, ships that were damaged and unable to steam on their own out of the combat zone, were typically towed by other combat vessels. As an example, the heavy cruiser USS Northampton attempted to tow the carrier USS Hornet at the battle of Santa Cruz:
                            enter image description here







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 11 hours ago









                            DavidwDavidw

                            20827




                            20827























                                1














                                The largest air-sea operation of the war (including the Pacific but excluding D-Day as too big to be one operation) was the Malta convoy of August 1942, Operation Pedestal. The Official History (Vol 2, Notes to Map 30) says that one tug was assigned to the oiling force and one to the "escort right through to Malta". No details are given, and since two of the four cruisers in this group were sunk and the other two damaged, it's a reasonable assumption that the tug, whatever her name, returned to Gibraltar while assisting a damaged ship. (It's also worth noting that the Official History is not infallible. It credits the saving of the Ohio to "the destroyer Penn and the minesweepers Rye and Ledbury"; Ledbury was actually a Hunt-class destroyer, whose captain remembers a fourth ship helping push the invaluable tanker on her way.)



                                Tugs were often attached to convoys that were expected to come under attack, particularly when rescue ships were not available. The problem is that being neither merchant ships nor escorts, they were usually left out of the official reports.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                  – R Leonard
                                  3 hours ago


















                                1














                                The largest air-sea operation of the war (including the Pacific but excluding D-Day as too big to be one operation) was the Malta convoy of August 1942, Operation Pedestal. The Official History (Vol 2, Notes to Map 30) says that one tug was assigned to the oiling force and one to the "escort right through to Malta". No details are given, and since two of the four cruisers in this group were sunk and the other two damaged, it's a reasonable assumption that the tug, whatever her name, returned to Gibraltar while assisting a damaged ship. (It's also worth noting that the Official History is not infallible. It credits the saving of the Ohio to "the destroyer Penn and the minesweepers Rye and Ledbury"; Ledbury was actually a Hunt-class destroyer, whose captain remembers a fourth ship helping push the invaluable tanker on her way.)



                                Tugs were often attached to convoys that were expected to come under attack, particularly when rescue ships were not available. The problem is that being neither merchant ships nor escorts, they were usually left out of the official reports.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                  – R Leonard
                                  3 hours ago
















                                1












                                1








                                1







                                The largest air-sea operation of the war (including the Pacific but excluding D-Day as too big to be one operation) was the Malta convoy of August 1942, Operation Pedestal. The Official History (Vol 2, Notes to Map 30) says that one tug was assigned to the oiling force and one to the "escort right through to Malta". No details are given, and since two of the four cruisers in this group were sunk and the other two damaged, it's a reasonable assumption that the tug, whatever her name, returned to Gibraltar while assisting a damaged ship. (It's also worth noting that the Official History is not infallible. It credits the saving of the Ohio to "the destroyer Penn and the minesweepers Rye and Ledbury"; Ledbury was actually a Hunt-class destroyer, whose captain remembers a fourth ship helping push the invaluable tanker on her way.)



                                Tugs were often attached to convoys that were expected to come under attack, particularly when rescue ships were not available. The problem is that being neither merchant ships nor escorts, they were usually left out of the official reports.






                                share|improve this answer













                                The largest air-sea operation of the war (including the Pacific but excluding D-Day as too big to be one operation) was the Malta convoy of August 1942, Operation Pedestal. The Official History (Vol 2, Notes to Map 30) says that one tug was assigned to the oiling force and one to the "escort right through to Malta". No details are given, and since two of the four cruisers in this group were sunk and the other two damaged, it's a reasonable assumption that the tug, whatever her name, returned to Gibraltar while assisting a damaged ship. (It's also worth noting that the Official History is not infallible. It credits the saving of the Ohio to "the destroyer Penn and the minesweepers Rye and Ledbury"; Ledbury was actually a Hunt-class destroyer, whose captain remembers a fourth ship helping push the invaluable tanker on her way.)



                                Tugs were often attached to convoys that were expected to come under attack, particularly when rescue ships were not available. The problem is that being neither merchant ships nor escorts, they were usually left out of the official reports.







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered 13 hours ago









                                TimLymingtonTimLymington

                                57638




                                57638













                                • Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                  – R Leonard
                                  3 hours ago





















                                • Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                  – R Leonard
                                  3 hours ago



















                                Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                – R Leonard
                                3 hours ago







                                Might suggest that the Mariana's operations of June 1944, the operations around Leyte in October 1944, the invasion of Iwo Jima in February 1945, and the invasion and peripheral operations at Okinawa in April 1945, all had considerably more ships and aircraft involved than did Operation Pedestal.

                                – R Leonard
                                3 hours ago













                                0














                                No!



                                A tugboat doesn't pull, or tug, it's load; rather it pushes it with that padded front end.



                                enter image description here



                                Their purpose is to nudge large ships around cramped harbours due to those ships having no steerageway at such low speeds. Their very low freeboard (height of gunnels above the water) makes them completely unsuitable for open water use, even though mush of the interior is compartmentalised. As they work entirely within the confines of small harbours they have no use for large fuel tanks, and consequently an operational range measured in hours rather than days and weeks.



                                Further, they would be a severe liability in a naval battle due to their complete lack of armament or self defence.



                                Also, paradoxically, large ships are capable of much faster speeds than smaller ones, due to the cube-square law (until strength of materials fails, of course). Top speed for a tugboat is typically about 14 knots, while top speed for open water vessels is above 30 knots; more than twice as great. Top speed for a tug under load. pushing a vessel orders of magnitude heavier, will be a tiny fraction of top speed, if only because the load vessel is no longer aerodynamic when being pushed sideways.



                                To consider one of your examples, Midway, the as the crow flies distance to Pearl Harbor is about 850 NM; at least 84 hours travel time out for a tug at top speed, plus however long for one or more refuelings. Then several times that, at least, coming back with load. No port can be without its tugs for so long when other large vessels are constantly coming and going.






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 10





                                  "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                  – alephzero
                                  22 hours ago













                                • @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                  – Pieter Geerkens
                                  22 hours ago








                                • 10





                                  Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                  – David Richerby
                                  18 hours ago








                                • 2





                                  I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                  – James Moore
                                  12 hours ago











                                • (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                  – James Moore
                                  11 hours ago
















                                0














                                No!



                                A tugboat doesn't pull, or tug, it's load; rather it pushes it with that padded front end.



                                enter image description here



                                Their purpose is to nudge large ships around cramped harbours due to those ships having no steerageway at such low speeds. Their very low freeboard (height of gunnels above the water) makes them completely unsuitable for open water use, even though mush of the interior is compartmentalised. As they work entirely within the confines of small harbours they have no use for large fuel tanks, and consequently an operational range measured in hours rather than days and weeks.



                                Further, they would be a severe liability in a naval battle due to their complete lack of armament or self defence.



                                Also, paradoxically, large ships are capable of much faster speeds than smaller ones, due to the cube-square law (until strength of materials fails, of course). Top speed for a tugboat is typically about 14 knots, while top speed for open water vessels is above 30 knots; more than twice as great. Top speed for a tug under load. pushing a vessel orders of magnitude heavier, will be a tiny fraction of top speed, if only because the load vessel is no longer aerodynamic when being pushed sideways.



                                To consider one of your examples, Midway, the as the crow flies distance to Pearl Harbor is about 850 NM; at least 84 hours travel time out for a tug at top speed, plus however long for one or more refuelings. Then several times that, at least, coming back with load. No port can be without its tugs for so long when other large vessels are constantly coming and going.






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 10





                                  "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                  – alephzero
                                  22 hours ago













                                • @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                  – Pieter Geerkens
                                  22 hours ago








                                • 10





                                  Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                  – David Richerby
                                  18 hours ago








                                • 2





                                  I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                  – James Moore
                                  12 hours ago











                                • (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                  – James Moore
                                  11 hours ago














                                0












                                0








                                0







                                No!



                                A tugboat doesn't pull, or tug, it's load; rather it pushes it with that padded front end.



                                enter image description here



                                Their purpose is to nudge large ships around cramped harbours due to those ships having no steerageway at such low speeds. Their very low freeboard (height of gunnels above the water) makes them completely unsuitable for open water use, even though mush of the interior is compartmentalised. As they work entirely within the confines of small harbours they have no use for large fuel tanks, and consequently an operational range measured in hours rather than days and weeks.



                                Further, they would be a severe liability in a naval battle due to their complete lack of armament or self defence.



                                Also, paradoxically, large ships are capable of much faster speeds than smaller ones, due to the cube-square law (until strength of materials fails, of course). Top speed for a tugboat is typically about 14 knots, while top speed for open water vessels is above 30 knots; more than twice as great. Top speed for a tug under load. pushing a vessel orders of magnitude heavier, will be a tiny fraction of top speed, if only because the load vessel is no longer aerodynamic when being pushed sideways.



                                To consider one of your examples, Midway, the as the crow flies distance to Pearl Harbor is about 850 NM; at least 84 hours travel time out for a tug at top speed, plus however long for one or more refuelings. Then several times that, at least, coming back with load. No port can be without its tugs for so long when other large vessels are constantly coming and going.






                                share|improve this answer















                                No!



                                A tugboat doesn't pull, or tug, it's load; rather it pushes it with that padded front end.



                                enter image description here



                                Their purpose is to nudge large ships around cramped harbours due to those ships having no steerageway at such low speeds. Their very low freeboard (height of gunnels above the water) makes them completely unsuitable for open water use, even though mush of the interior is compartmentalised. As they work entirely within the confines of small harbours they have no use for large fuel tanks, and consequently an operational range measured in hours rather than days and weeks.



                                Further, they would be a severe liability in a naval battle due to their complete lack of armament or self defence.



                                Also, paradoxically, large ships are capable of much faster speeds than smaller ones, due to the cube-square law (until strength of materials fails, of course). Top speed for a tugboat is typically about 14 knots, while top speed for open water vessels is above 30 knots; more than twice as great. Top speed for a tug under load. pushing a vessel orders of magnitude heavier, will be a tiny fraction of top speed, if only because the load vessel is no longer aerodynamic when being pushed sideways.



                                To consider one of your examples, Midway, the as the crow flies distance to Pearl Harbor is about 850 NM; at least 84 hours travel time out for a tug at top speed, plus however long for one or more refuelings. Then several times that, at least, coming back with load. No port can be without its tugs for so long when other large vessels are constantly coming and going.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday

























                                answered yesterday









                                Pieter GeerkensPieter Geerkens

                                39.9k6116190




                                39.9k6116190








                                • 10





                                  "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                  – alephzero
                                  22 hours ago













                                • @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                  – Pieter Geerkens
                                  22 hours ago








                                • 10





                                  Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                  – David Richerby
                                  18 hours ago








                                • 2





                                  I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                  – James Moore
                                  12 hours ago











                                • (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                  – James Moore
                                  11 hours ago














                                • 10





                                  "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                  – alephzero
                                  22 hours ago













                                • @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                  – Pieter Geerkens
                                  22 hours ago








                                • 10





                                  Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                  – David Richerby
                                  18 hours ago








                                • 2





                                  I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                  – James Moore
                                  12 hours ago











                                • (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                  – James Moore
                                  11 hours ago








                                10




                                10





                                "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                – alephzero
                                22 hours ago







                                "A tugboat doesn't pull..." - This is not even true for "harbour tugs", in ports on tidal river estuaries. It is quite common to have several tugs pulling on lines from the bow and/or stern of the ship being manoeuvred. Of course the tugs can also let the lines go slack and push, when required.

                                – alephzero
                                22 hours ago















                                @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                – Pieter Geerkens
                                22 hours ago







                                @alephzero: I have only seen a couple of hours of tug activity, in just two harbours, so will accept that. Clearly the tugs in the video and snap above are capable of having attached lines of sufficient weight attached. My point remains that they are designed to push because they are there to provide steerage, at least primarily, not locomotion..

                                – Pieter Geerkens
                                22 hours ago






                                10




                                10





                                Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                – David Richerby
                                18 hours ago







                                Sorry but this answer is fundamentally wrong. You're confusing harbour tugs with ocean-going tugs and you're not even right about harbour tugs (e.g., here's a harbour tug assisting HMCS Athabaskan, and a pair towing a barge).

                                – David Richerby
                                18 hours ago






                                2




                                2





                                I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                – James Moore
                                12 hours ago





                                I live in West Seattle and we can see a busy shipping lane from upstairs. We constantly see tugs towing barges. It's just part of daily life around here. It's far, far, far more common than tugs pushing around anything. Can you imagine trying to push something like this from Seattle up to Alaska? lynden.com/aml/tools/gallery/…

                                – James Moore
                                12 hours ago













                                (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                – James Moore
                                11 hours ago





                                (Just went upstairs to look, and sure enough Wasp is towing a barge past our house right now - marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:432216/…)

                                – James Moore
                                11 hours ago


















                                draft saved

                                draft discarded




















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f50955%2fwas-the-tugboat-ever-part-of-a-wwii-battle-group%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                "Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'ON'. (on update cascade, on delete cascade,)

                                Alcedinidae

                                RAC Tourist Trophy