Is this a submanifold?












2












$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.



EDIT



Thanks to all the answers and comments. I shall change a little the candidate to manifold to another that will be more helpful to me.



I would like to know if one denotes by $cal H_p$ the orthogonal complement to $T_pGcdot p$ on the $g$-metric, then the set
$$S := {p in M : exists X in mathcal H_p : G_X = G_p}$$
is a submanifold of $M$. In fact, this is what I was trying to prove at first.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Budney
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    4 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.



EDIT



Thanks to all the answers and comments. I shall change a little the candidate to manifold to another that will be more helpful to me.



I would like to know if one denotes by $cal H_p$ the orthogonal complement to $T_pGcdot p$ on the $g$-metric, then the set
$$S := {p in M : exists X in mathcal H_p : G_X = G_p}$$
is a submanifold of $M$. In fact, this is what I was trying to prove at first.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Budney
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    4 hours ago














2












2








2


1



$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.



EDIT



Thanks to all the answers and comments. I shall change a little the candidate to manifold to another that will be more helpful to me.



I would like to know if one denotes by $cal H_p$ the orthogonal complement to $T_pGcdot p$ on the $g$-metric, then the set
$$S := {p in M : exists X in mathcal H_p : G_X = G_p}$$
is a submanifold of $M$. In fact, this is what I was trying to prove at first.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrm{Iso}(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := {(p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p}$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_{TM}left((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^{-1}(0) = {(p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X)}.$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_{gin G}eta_g^{-1}(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.



EDIT



Thanks to all the answers and comments. I shall change a little the candidate to manifold to another that will be more helpful to me.



I would like to know if one denotes by $cal H_p$ the orthogonal complement to $T_pGcdot p$ on the $g$-metric, then the set
$$S := {p in M : exists X in mathcal H_p : G_X = G_p}$$
is a submanifold of $M$. In fact, this is what I was trying to prove at first.







dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







L.F. Cavenaghi

















asked 10 hours ago









L.F. CavenaghiL.F. Cavenaghi

603213




603213












  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Budney
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    4 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Budney
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    4 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
6 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
5 hours ago












$begingroup$
By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Budney
4 hours ago






$begingroup$
By $G_X$ and $G_p$ you are referring to the vector and point stabilizers, respectively? I would imagine that generally this is not a manifold without some pretty restrictive assumptions. I'm imagining the action of $G$ degenerating along a stratum, with the stabilized vector space changing. What are you hoping to do with a result like this?
$endgroup$
– Ryan Budney
4 hours ago














$begingroup$
Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Dear @RyanBudney, please, consider seeing my edit, as It was suggested on the comments $S$ possibly is a manifold, and that was my original problem. I am working on positive curvature and I need on some step of my argument to be sure that $S$ is a submanifold.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} T_pM^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $T_pM^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.



EDIT



To address the modified question: If $pin S$, then the orbit $Gp$ has a neighborhood homeomorphic to $Gtimes_{G_p} mathcal H_p$ and we're assuming that $mathcal H_p^{G_p} neq 0$. If $qin mathcal H_p$ is any point, then $mathcal H_p^{G_p}$ will be fixed by $G_q$ and still be orthogonal to $Gq$, hence $q$ and every point in $Gq$ will be in $S$. This shows that a neighborhood of $Gp$ is contained in $S$. Thus $S$ is an open submanifold of $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
    $endgroup$
    – Steve Costenoble
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    3 hours ago













Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "504"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f325024%2fis-this-a-submanifold%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



For the obvious reflection action of $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus {p,q}) cup {p_0,q_0}$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









Ali TaghaviAli Taghavi

8952084




8952084








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
5 hours ago











1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} T_pM^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $T_pM^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.



EDIT



To address the modified question: If $pin S$, then the orbit $Gp$ has a neighborhood homeomorphic to $Gtimes_{G_p} mathcal H_p$ and we're assuming that $mathcal H_p^{G_p} neq 0$. If $qin mathcal H_p$ is any point, then $mathcal H_p^{G_p}$ will be fixed by $G_q$ and still be orthogonal to $Gq$, hence $q$ and every point in $Gq$ will be in $S$. This shows that a neighborhood of $Gp$ is contained in $S$. Thus $S$ is an open submanifold of $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
    $endgroup$
    – Steve Costenoble
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    3 hours ago


















1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} T_pM^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $T_pM^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.



EDIT



To address the modified question: If $pin S$, then the orbit $Gp$ has a neighborhood homeomorphic to $Gtimes_{G_p} mathcal H_p$ and we're assuming that $mathcal H_p^{G_p} neq 0$. If $qin mathcal H_p$ is any point, then $mathcal H_p^{G_p}$ will be fixed by $G_q$ and still be orthogonal to $Gq$, hence $q$ and every point in $Gq$ will be in $S$. This shows that a neighborhood of $Gp$ is contained in $S$. Thus $S$ is an open submanifold of $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
    $endgroup$
    – Steve Costenoble
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    3 hours ago
















1












1








1





$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} T_pM^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $T_pM^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.



EDIT



To address the modified question: If $pin S$, then the orbit $Gp$ has a neighborhood homeomorphic to $Gtimes_{G_p} mathcal H_p$ and we're assuming that $mathcal H_p^{G_p} neq 0$. If $qin mathcal H_p$ is any point, then $mathcal H_p^{G_p}$ will be fixed by $G_q$ and still be orthogonal to $Gq$, hence $q$ and every point in $Gq$ will be in $S$. This shows that a neighborhood of $Gp$ is contained in $S$. Thus $S$ is an open submanifold of $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_{pin M} T_pM^{G_p}. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $T_pM^{G_p}$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminus{n,s})cup {n,s}$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.



EDIT



To address the modified question: If $pin S$, then the orbit $Gp$ has a neighborhood homeomorphic to $Gtimes_{G_p} mathcal H_p$ and we're assuming that $mathcal H_p^{G_p} neq 0$. If $qin mathcal H_p$ is any point, then $mathcal H_p^{G_p}$ will be fixed by $G_q$ and still be orthogonal to $Gq$, hence $q$ and every point in $Gq$ will be in $S$. This shows that a neighborhood of $Gp$ is contained in $S$. Thus $S$ is an open submanifold of $M$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 50 mins ago

























answered 5 hours ago









Steve CostenobleSteve Costenoble

9451514




9451514












  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
    $endgroup$
    – Steve Costenoble
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    3 hours ago




















  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
    $endgroup$
    – Steve Costenoble
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    3 hours ago


















$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
5 hours ago






$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = {p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal {H}_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p}$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
5 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
$endgroup$
– Steve Costenoble
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
My first reaction is that, yes, $S$ will be a submanifold. In fact, an open submanifold: If $pin S$ then all points in an open neighborhood of $p$ should also satisfy your new condition. Essentially, a neighborhood of $p$ will look like $T_p M$ with the action of $G_p$.
$endgroup$
– Steve Costenoble
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
3 hours ago






$begingroup$
I have edited the question in order to encompass $S$ to it, it would be extremely helpful if you explain to me your thoughts on why $S$ has a chance to be a submanifold.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
3 hours ago




















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f325024%2fis-this-a-submanifold%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

"Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'ON'. (on update cascade, on delete cascade,)

Alcedinidae

RAC Tourist Trophy