Can a multiclassed Wizard/Sorcerer use the Twinned Spell metamagic option on Simulacrum?
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
Consider a Wizard 13/Sorcerer 7 multiclass, who happens to have the Twinned Spell metamagic option:
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren’t eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are.
Now this character casts simulacrum:
Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 2 duplicates of himself
(or someone else)?Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 1 duplicate for 2
different targets at the same time?
dnd-5e spells wizard sorcerer metamagic
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
Consider a Wizard 13/Sorcerer 7 multiclass, who happens to have the Twinned Spell metamagic option:
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren’t eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are.
Now this character casts simulacrum:
Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 2 duplicates of himself
(or someone else)?Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 1 duplicate for 2
different targets at the same time?
dnd-5e spells wizard sorcerer metamagic
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
3
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
1
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
1
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
Consider a Wizard 13/Sorcerer 7 multiclass, who happens to have the Twinned Spell metamagic option:
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren’t eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are.
Now this character casts simulacrum:
Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 2 duplicates of himself
(or someone else)?Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 1 duplicate for 2
different targets at the same time?
dnd-5e spells wizard sorcerer metamagic
Consider a Wizard 13/Sorcerer 7 multiclass, who happens to have the Twinned Spell metamagic option:
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren’t eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are.
Now this character casts simulacrum:
Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 2 duplicates of himself
(or someone else)?Can a Sorcerer use Twinned Spell to create 1 duplicate for 2
different targets at the same time?
dnd-5e spells wizard sorcerer metamagic
dnd-5e spells wizard sorcerer metamagic
edited Dec 11 at 1:42
V2Blast
18.8k251117
18.8k251117
asked Dec 10 at 14:12
Alex Millette
2,1531332
2,1531332
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
3
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
1
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
1
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54
|
show 3 more comments
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
3
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
1
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
1
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
3
3
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
1
1
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
1
1
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54
|
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Yes, Simulacrum can be twinned
It creates one duplicate each of two creatures.
Just to take the first line of the Simulacrum spell:
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell.
The target is one beast or humanoid within range touch.
There's nothing logically stopping this from working. Simulacrum doesn't target self or more than one creature.
And to pull out a line of the Twinned Spell feature:
[snip] ... target a second creature in range ... [snip]
If you had two people (one of which could be yourself) within the range of "touch" for 12 hours and you have the sorcery points (you'll need seven), then you should be able to twin the spell and create two duplicates: one of each creature.
Also as a restriction of Twinned Spell, a twinned simulacrum can not be used to create two duplicates of the same creature.
So, to answer your questions succinctly:
- No, a twinned simulacrum must target different creatures.
- Yes.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
You can twin Simulacrum, and create a duplicate of a target, and a duplicate of a second target.
Simulacrum falls under Twinned Spell requirements, and now targets 2 creatures. It's the same as if you had cast Simulacrum twice, with different targets, except the first duplicate does not disappear.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Probably not for the twin Simulacrum
Simulacrum isn't a creature until after the spell takes effect.
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is
within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate
is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can
take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. (SRD, p. 180)
What the sorcerer is casting the spell on is a bunch of objects, not a creature, that become a creature.
(snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-‐‑size copy of the duplicated creature; some hair, fingernail clippings, or other piece of that creature’s body placed inside the snow or ice; and powdered ruby worth 1,500 gp, sprinkled over the duplicate and consumed by the spell) (SRD p. 180)
Twin needs to be cast on a creature, specifically, per the rules you cited. With that in mind ...
Maybe you can (what is being touched?)
With a range of touch, it is unclear whether or not that which is to be duplicated must be touched or not. If yes, then provided that sufficient material is present, then the sorcerer is "touching" a creature and thus makes two duplicates of that creature. (thanks to @AlexMillette for that point)
I can see the ruling going either way, so discuss with your DM. The issue to resolve is "what it is that the caster is touching in order to create the simulacrum? The pile of material, or the creature to be duplicated?"
As an aside, regarding "touching" for touch spells and abilities, how the touch is to be executed isn't precisely defined. (A JCrawford tweet).
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
|
show 3 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f137093%2fcan-a-multiclassed-wizard-sorcerer-use-the-twinned-spell-metamagic-option-on-sim%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Yes, Simulacrum can be twinned
It creates one duplicate each of two creatures.
Just to take the first line of the Simulacrum spell:
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell.
The target is one beast or humanoid within range touch.
There's nothing logically stopping this from working. Simulacrum doesn't target self or more than one creature.
And to pull out a line of the Twinned Spell feature:
[snip] ... target a second creature in range ... [snip]
If you had two people (one of which could be yourself) within the range of "touch" for 12 hours and you have the sorcery points (you'll need seven), then you should be able to twin the spell and create two duplicates: one of each creature.
Also as a restriction of Twinned Spell, a twinned simulacrum can not be used to create two duplicates of the same creature.
So, to answer your questions succinctly:
- No, a twinned simulacrum must target different creatures.
- Yes.
add a comment |
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Yes, Simulacrum can be twinned
It creates one duplicate each of two creatures.
Just to take the first line of the Simulacrum spell:
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell.
The target is one beast or humanoid within range touch.
There's nothing logically stopping this from working. Simulacrum doesn't target self or more than one creature.
And to pull out a line of the Twinned Spell feature:
[snip] ... target a second creature in range ... [snip]
If you had two people (one of which could be yourself) within the range of "touch" for 12 hours and you have the sorcery points (you'll need seven), then you should be able to twin the spell and create two duplicates: one of each creature.
Also as a restriction of Twinned Spell, a twinned simulacrum can not be used to create two duplicates of the same creature.
So, to answer your questions succinctly:
- No, a twinned simulacrum must target different creatures.
- Yes.
add a comment |
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Yes, Simulacrum can be twinned
It creates one duplicate each of two creatures.
Just to take the first line of the Simulacrum spell:
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell.
The target is one beast or humanoid within range touch.
There's nothing logically stopping this from working. Simulacrum doesn't target self or more than one creature.
And to pull out a line of the Twinned Spell feature:
[snip] ... target a second creature in range ... [snip]
If you had two people (one of which could be yourself) within the range of "touch" for 12 hours and you have the sorcery points (you'll need seven), then you should be able to twin the spell and create two duplicates: one of each creature.
Also as a restriction of Twinned Spell, a twinned simulacrum can not be used to create two duplicates of the same creature.
So, to answer your questions succinctly:
- No, a twinned simulacrum must target different creatures.
- Yes.
Yes, Simulacrum can be twinned
It creates one duplicate each of two creatures.
Just to take the first line of the Simulacrum spell:
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell.
The target is one beast or humanoid within range touch.
There's nothing logically stopping this from working. Simulacrum doesn't target self or more than one creature.
And to pull out a line of the Twinned Spell feature:
[snip] ... target a second creature in range ... [snip]
If you had two people (one of which could be yourself) within the range of "touch" for 12 hours and you have the sorcery points (you'll need seven), then you should be able to twin the spell and create two duplicates: one of each creature.
Also as a restriction of Twinned Spell, a twinned simulacrum can not be used to create two duplicates of the same creature.
So, to answer your questions succinctly:
- No, a twinned simulacrum must target different creatures.
- Yes.
edited 2 days ago
Rubiksmoose
46.7k6233356
46.7k6233356
answered Dec 10 at 14:37
goodguy5
6,49912362
6,49912362
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
You can twin Simulacrum, and create a duplicate of a target, and a duplicate of a second target.
Simulacrum falls under Twinned Spell requirements, and now targets 2 creatures. It's the same as if you had cast Simulacrum twice, with different targets, except the first duplicate does not disappear.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
You can twin Simulacrum, and create a duplicate of a target, and a duplicate of a second target.
Simulacrum falls under Twinned Spell requirements, and now targets 2 creatures. It's the same as if you had cast Simulacrum twice, with different targets, except the first duplicate does not disappear.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
You can twin Simulacrum, and create a duplicate of a target, and a duplicate of a second target.
Simulacrum falls under Twinned Spell requirements, and now targets 2 creatures. It's the same as if you had cast Simulacrum twice, with different targets, except the first duplicate does not disappear.
You can twin Simulacrum, and create a duplicate of a target, and a duplicate of a second target.
Simulacrum falls under Twinned Spell requirements, and now targets 2 creatures. It's the same as if you had cast Simulacrum twice, with different targets, except the first duplicate does not disappear.
edited Dec 10 at 15:38
answered Dec 10 at 14:34
BlueMoon93
12.4k965131
12.4k965131
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Probably not for the twin Simulacrum
Simulacrum isn't a creature until after the spell takes effect.
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is
within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate
is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can
take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. (SRD, p. 180)
What the sorcerer is casting the spell on is a bunch of objects, not a creature, that become a creature.
(snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-‐‑size copy of the duplicated creature; some hair, fingernail clippings, or other piece of that creature’s body placed inside the snow or ice; and powdered ruby worth 1,500 gp, sprinkled over the duplicate and consumed by the spell) (SRD p. 180)
Twin needs to be cast on a creature, specifically, per the rules you cited. With that in mind ...
Maybe you can (what is being touched?)
With a range of touch, it is unclear whether or not that which is to be duplicated must be touched or not. If yes, then provided that sufficient material is present, then the sorcerer is "touching" a creature and thus makes two duplicates of that creature. (thanks to @AlexMillette for that point)
I can see the ruling going either way, so discuss with your DM. The issue to resolve is "what it is that the caster is touching in order to create the simulacrum? The pile of material, or the creature to be duplicated?"
As an aside, regarding "touching" for touch spells and abilities, how the touch is to be executed isn't precisely defined. (A JCrawford tweet).
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Probably not for the twin Simulacrum
Simulacrum isn't a creature until after the spell takes effect.
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is
within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate
is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can
take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. (SRD, p. 180)
What the sorcerer is casting the spell on is a bunch of objects, not a creature, that become a creature.
(snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-‐‑size copy of the duplicated creature; some hair, fingernail clippings, or other piece of that creature’s body placed inside the snow or ice; and powdered ruby worth 1,500 gp, sprinkled over the duplicate and consumed by the spell) (SRD p. 180)
Twin needs to be cast on a creature, specifically, per the rules you cited. With that in mind ...
Maybe you can (what is being touched?)
With a range of touch, it is unclear whether or not that which is to be duplicated must be touched or not. If yes, then provided that sufficient material is present, then the sorcerer is "touching" a creature and thus makes two duplicates of that creature. (thanks to @AlexMillette for that point)
I can see the ruling going either way, so discuss with your DM. The issue to resolve is "what it is that the caster is touching in order to create the simulacrum? The pile of material, or the creature to be duplicated?"
As an aside, regarding "touching" for touch spells and abilities, how the touch is to be executed isn't precisely defined. (A JCrawford tweet).
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Probably not for the twin Simulacrum
Simulacrum isn't a creature until after the spell takes effect.
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is
within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate
is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can
take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. (SRD, p. 180)
What the sorcerer is casting the spell on is a bunch of objects, not a creature, that become a creature.
(snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-‐‑size copy of the duplicated creature; some hair, fingernail clippings, or other piece of that creature’s body placed inside the snow or ice; and powdered ruby worth 1,500 gp, sprinkled over the duplicate and consumed by the spell) (SRD p. 180)
Twin needs to be cast on a creature, specifically, per the rules you cited. With that in mind ...
Maybe you can (what is being touched?)
With a range of touch, it is unclear whether or not that which is to be duplicated must be touched or not. If yes, then provided that sufficient material is present, then the sorcerer is "touching" a creature and thus makes two duplicates of that creature. (thanks to @AlexMillette for that point)
I can see the ruling going either way, so discuss with your DM. The issue to resolve is "what it is that the caster is touching in order to create the simulacrum? The pile of material, or the creature to be duplicated?"
As an aside, regarding "touching" for touch spells and abilities, how the touch is to be executed isn't precisely defined. (A JCrawford tweet).
Probably not for the twin Simulacrum
Simulacrum isn't a creature until after the spell takes effect.
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is
within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate
is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can
take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. (SRD, p. 180)
What the sorcerer is casting the spell on is a bunch of objects, not a creature, that become a creature.
(snow or ice in quantities sufficient to made a life-‐‑size copy of the duplicated creature; some hair, fingernail clippings, or other piece of that creature’s body placed inside the snow or ice; and powdered ruby worth 1,500 gp, sprinkled over the duplicate and consumed by the spell) (SRD p. 180)
Twin needs to be cast on a creature, specifically, per the rules you cited. With that in mind ...
Maybe you can (what is being touched?)
With a range of touch, it is unclear whether or not that which is to be duplicated must be touched or not. If yes, then provided that sufficient material is present, then the sorcerer is "touching" a creature and thus makes two duplicates of that creature. (thanks to @AlexMillette for that point)
I can see the ruling going either way, so discuss with your DM. The issue to resolve is "what it is that the caster is touching in order to create the simulacrum? The pile of material, or the creature to be duplicated?"
As an aside, regarding "touching" for touch spells and abilities, how the touch is to be executed isn't precisely defined. (A JCrawford tweet).
edited Dec 10 at 20:24
answered Dec 10 at 14:18
KorvinStarmast
73.3k17227400
73.3k17227400
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
|
show 3 more comments
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
"You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." This seems to imply that the "Touch" range refers to the targeted original, which is certainly a creature.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:21
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
I see his point, although I highly doubt it was intended in this way. The range is "touch" and the creature to be duplicated has to stay within that range for the duration of the cast. This begs the question as to how do you craft a snowman while groping your victim? I think it is another example of horrible wording, or trying to copy a previous version.
– Slagmoth
Dec 10 at 14:25
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
@AlexMillette Interesting point, so I folded that in. Good catch.
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 14:26
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
I get a feeling these should be two separate answers... whether the components or the original creature should be considered the target completely changes which answer you get.
– Erik
Dec 10 at 14:28
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
@Erik I appreciate your point, but I find more appealing the 5e approach of ruling over rules when the text doesn't specify;
– KorvinStarmast
Dec 10 at 15:17
|
show 3 more comments
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f137093%2fcan-a-multiclassed-wizard-sorcerer-use-the-twinned-spell-metamagic-option-on-sim%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
This question is VERY related to this one.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:31
3
@BlueMoon93 Agree, theoretical application of Twinned Spell to Simulacrum is possible with Wiz-13/Sorc-7 multiclass, no Wish is needed.
– AntiDrondert
Dec 10 at 14:47
1
I edited the question to focus on the Twinned/Simulacrum aspect
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 14:54
Since the MC option and the wish option are two very different questions and the latter already has an answer elsewhere I have edited this to only focus on the MC.
– Rubiksmoose
Dec 10 at 14:56
1
Yes it does, although I'm probably more concerned about that matter about Twinned Wish now, But this is of course for another question.
– Alex Millette
Dec 10 at 17:54