Can I say “We don't must”, any alternative using a modal verb if I can't?












6















Let me explain. Suppose someone says "We must play a game now". I disagree, but only on that we have to do it.



I shouldn't answer "We must not" because I would be saying that the game is not to be allowed to happen.



"We don't must" feels incorrect, I'm not sure if it is.



So, other than completely changing the phrase answering things like "I don't feel like playing" or "I disagree", how do I express that idea that I don't think that we must, using the verb must? Is it possible?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    More about this on wikipedia

    – krubo
    Sep 11 '11 at 14:56


















6















Let me explain. Suppose someone says "We must play a game now". I disagree, but only on that we have to do it.



I shouldn't answer "We must not" because I would be saying that the game is not to be allowed to happen.



"We don't must" feels incorrect, I'm not sure if it is.



So, other than completely changing the phrase answering things like "I don't feel like playing" or "I disagree", how do I express that idea that I don't think that we must, using the verb must? Is it possible?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    More about this on wikipedia

    – krubo
    Sep 11 '11 at 14:56
















6












6








6








Let me explain. Suppose someone says "We must play a game now". I disagree, but only on that we have to do it.



I shouldn't answer "We must not" because I would be saying that the game is not to be allowed to happen.



"We don't must" feels incorrect, I'm not sure if it is.



So, other than completely changing the phrase answering things like "I don't feel like playing" or "I disagree", how do I express that idea that I don't think that we must, using the verb must? Is it possible?










share|improve this question
















Let me explain. Suppose someone says "We must play a game now". I disagree, but only on that we have to do it.



I shouldn't answer "We must not" because I would be saying that the game is not to be allowed to happen.



"We don't must" feels incorrect, I'm not sure if it is.



So, other than completely changing the phrase answering things like "I don't feel like playing" or "I disagree", how do I express that idea that I don't think that we must, using the verb must? Is it possible?







modal-verbs logic






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 9 '11 at 0:42









krubo

1,820912




1,820912










asked Sep 9 '11 at 0:16









Vinko VrsalovicVinko Vrsalovic

4293713




4293713








  • 2





    More about this on wikipedia

    – krubo
    Sep 11 '11 at 14:56
















  • 2





    More about this on wikipedia

    – krubo
    Sep 11 '11 at 14:56










2




2





More about this on wikipedia

– krubo
Sep 11 '11 at 14:56







More about this on wikipedia

– krubo
Sep 11 '11 at 14:56












6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















7














The key issue is the ordering of auxiliaries in English.




(Subject) + Modal + PerfectMarker + ProgressiveMarker + PassiveMarker + (MainVerb) + (...)




An example of all the auxiliary positions being used is:




We must have been being taught English grammar.




Negatives occur after the element they are most relevant to (often the first). Since must is a modal, it occurs in the first slot. But this blocks any other modals from occurring there. Adding not runs into the conundrum of meaning you already mentioned. You could attempt to insert another expression of necessity later in the sentence, but having multiple such words often changes the semantics in odd ways. For example:




We must not have to play a game.




(Italics to indicate that most speakers would emphasize "not") It seems right at first, but this expresses that you believe (or you've come to the conclusion) that we don't have to play. This is not precisely the same thing, and the sentence is a little odd as well.



Also you are right: you cannot generally say "We don't must" as the dummy and emphatic forms of "do" cannot occur with any auxiliaries, and even if they could, they could not occur before must. (The 'lexical' do still can, but this occupies the main verb slot, as in "We must not do that.")



Thus our only real choice is to reword the sentence and lose must. Generally the most native-sounding choice is to use a periphrastic modal like "have to". (Note that periphrastic modals occur in the main verb slot, as they have not fully grammaticalized into real modals. Yet.) I think the choice the other respondents both used sounds the best:




We don't have to play a game.







share|improve this answer
























  • A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

    – Kit Z. Fox
    Sep 9 '11 at 1:30






  • 1





    I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

    – tdhsmith
    Sep 9 '11 at 2:37











  • I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

    – Louis Rhys
    Sep 9 '11 at 7:50











  • Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

    – tdhsmith
    Sep 10 '11 at 3:04



















10














To get the logical negation of "must", switch must with a different verb.



A: We must study English grammar.

B: No, we need not study English grammar.
or B: No, we don't need to study English grammar.
or B: No, we don't have to study English grammar.
or B: No, we are not required to study English grammar.






share|improve this answer
























  • It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

    – Chibueze Opata
    Nov 14 '12 at 6:54



















4














Remember that one of the defining characteristics of modals is that they can't function as infinitives. If you bear that in mind, it helps you predict the impossibility of what you are suggesting and similar sentences.



So, the solution is that you need to find another periphrastic construct (usually "need to" or "have to" etc) with a similar meaning.






share|improve this answer

































    3














    Normally, a native English speaker would say something like:




    We don't have to play a game.




    They'd probably say it with an accent on "have" to denote that their intention is not the fact that they aren't playing the game, it's just that playing the game isn't an absolute necessary.






    share|improve this answer































      1















      A: We must play a game now.



      B: Must we?







      share|improve this answer































        -1














        I think, must is mainly useful in exact/provable contexts like mathematical theorems. In such contexts, given the statement A is B (A must be B), if one disproves it then the disproval implies the opposite: A isn't B (A mustn't be B). In fact, in contemporary use: Must and must not are often used in deductions, e.g. for must see (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/must), points 4,5 or (collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/must_1), point 4.



        I.e. both must and must not are obligations and if you want to express there is no such obligation, you need to drop that obligation (must) altogether. So when someone says "We must play a game now". You could use must to say:



        There is no such must.



        But we know that, must not has different meaning than do not have to, which for a new learner may seem counterintuitive. The negated form must not does not remove an obligation only switches it to counter obligation. This is how things behave in logic/deductions as mentioned above.



        In fact, in modals: can, may, have to etc. the negations behave differently: obligations are removed. It is because the obligations involved are of different nature, they are: abilities, capacities, permissions, duties, etc. and so may be disobeyed/questioned/removed.



        In contemporary use must itself is used outside deduction contexts and is similar to have to but that is IMO because people prefer using must when they want to impose absolute necessity of the obligation.






        share|improve this answer










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        Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





















        • Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

          – Toby Speight
          2 days ago











        • You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

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        active

        oldest

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        active

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        7














        The key issue is the ordering of auxiliaries in English.




        (Subject) + Modal + PerfectMarker + ProgressiveMarker + PassiveMarker + (MainVerb) + (...)




        An example of all the auxiliary positions being used is:




        We must have been being taught English grammar.




        Negatives occur after the element they are most relevant to (often the first). Since must is a modal, it occurs in the first slot. But this blocks any other modals from occurring there. Adding not runs into the conundrum of meaning you already mentioned. You could attempt to insert another expression of necessity later in the sentence, but having multiple such words often changes the semantics in odd ways. For example:




        We must not have to play a game.




        (Italics to indicate that most speakers would emphasize "not") It seems right at first, but this expresses that you believe (or you've come to the conclusion) that we don't have to play. This is not precisely the same thing, and the sentence is a little odd as well.



        Also you are right: you cannot generally say "We don't must" as the dummy and emphatic forms of "do" cannot occur with any auxiliaries, and even if they could, they could not occur before must. (The 'lexical' do still can, but this occupies the main verb slot, as in "We must not do that.")



        Thus our only real choice is to reword the sentence and lose must. Generally the most native-sounding choice is to use a periphrastic modal like "have to". (Note that periphrastic modals occur in the main verb slot, as they have not fully grammaticalized into real modals. Yet.) I think the choice the other respondents both used sounds the best:




        We don't have to play a game.







        share|improve this answer
























        • A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

          – Kit Z. Fox
          Sep 9 '11 at 1:30






        • 1





          I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 9 '11 at 2:37











        • I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

          – Louis Rhys
          Sep 9 '11 at 7:50











        • Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 10 '11 at 3:04
















        7














        The key issue is the ordering of auxiliaries in English.




        (Subject) + Modal + PerfectMarker + ProgressiveMarker + PassiveMarker + (MainVerb) + (...)




        An example of all the auxiliary positions being used is:




        We must have been being taught English grammar.




        Negatives occur after the element they are most relevant to (often the first). Since must is a modal, it occurs in the first slot. But this blocks any other modals from occurring there. Adding not runs into the conundrum of meaning you already mentioned. You could attempt to insert another expression of necessity later in the sentence, but having multiple such words often changes the semantics in odd ways. For example:




        We must not have to play a game.




        (Italics to indicate that most speakers would emphasize "not") It seems right at first, but this expresses that you believe (or you've come to the conclusion) that we don't have to play. This is not precisely the same thing, and the sentence is a little odd as well.



        Also you are right: you cannot generally say "We don't must" as the dummy and emphatic forms of "do" cannot occur with any auxiliaries, and even if they could, they could not occur before must. (The 'lexical' do still can, but this occupies the main verb slot, as in "We must not do that.")



        Thus our only real choice is to reword the sentence and lose must. Generally the most native-sounding choice is to use a periphrastic modal like "have to". (Note that periphrastic modals occur in the main verb slot, as they have not fully grammaticalized into real modals. Yet.) I think the choice the other respondents both used sounds the best:




        We don't have to play a game.







        share|improve this answer
























        • A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

          – Kit Z. Fox
          Sep 9 '11 at 1:30






        • 1





          I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 9 '11 at 2:37











        • I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

          – Louis Rhys
          Sep 9 '11 at 7:50











        • Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 10 '11 at 3:04














        7












        7








        7







        The key issue is the ordering of auxiliaries in English.




        (Subject) + Modal + PerfectMarker + ProgressiveMarker + PassiveMarker + (MainVerb) + (...)




        An example of all the auxiliary positions being used is:




        We must have been being taught English grammar.




        Negatives occur after the element they are most relevant to (often the first). Since must is a modal, it occurs in the first slot. But this blocks any other modals from occurring there. Adding not runs into the conundrum of meaning you already mentioned. You could attempt to insert another expression of necessity later in the sentence, but having multiple such words often changes the semantics in odd ways. For example:




        We must not have to play a game.




        (Italics to indicate that most speakers would emphasize "not") It seems right at first, but this expresses that you believe (or you've come to the conclusion) that we don't have to play. This is not precisely the same thing, and the sentence is a little odd as well.



        Also you are right: you cannot generally say "We don't must" as the dummy and emphatic forms of "do" cannot occur with any auxiliaries, and even if they could, they could not occur before must. (The 'lexical' do still can, but this occupies the main verb slot, as in "We must not do that.")



        Thus our only real choice is to reword the sentence and lose must. Generally the most native-sounding choice is to use a periphrastic modal like "have to". (Note that periphrastic modals occur in the main verb slot, as they have not fully grammaticalized into real modals. Yet.) I think the choice the other respondents both used sounds the best:




        We don't have to play a game.







        share|improve this answer













        The key issue is the ordering of auxiliaries in English.




        (Subject) + Modal + PerfectMarker + ProgressiveMarker + PassiveMarker + (MainVerb) + (...)




        An example of all the auxiliary positions being used is:




        We must have been being taught English grammar.




        Negatives occur after the element they are most relevant to (often the first). Since must is a modal, it occurs in the first slot. But this blocks any other modals from occurring there. Adding not runs into the conundrum of meaning you already mentioned. You could attempt to insert another expression of necessity later in the sentence, but having multiple such words often changes the semantics in odd ways. For example:




        We must not have to play a game.




        (Italics to indicate that most speakers would emphasize "not") It seems right at first, but this expresses that you believe (or you've come to the conclusion) that we don't have to play. This is not precisely the same thing, and the sentence is a little odd as well.



        Also you are right: you cannot generally say "We don't must" as the dummy and emphatic forms of "do" cannot occur with any auxiliaries, and even if they could, they could not occur before must. (The 'lexical' do still can, but this occupies the main verb slot, as in "We must not do that.")



        Thus our only real choice is to reword the sentence and lose must. Generally the most native-sounding choice is to use a periphrastic modal like "have to". (Note that periphrastic modals occur in the main verb slot, as they have not fully grammaticalized into real modals. Yet.) I think the choice the other respondents both used sounds the best:




        We don't have to play a game.








        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Sep 9 '11 at 1:13









        tdhsmithtdhsmith

        1,127611




        1,127611













        • A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

          – Kit Z. Fox
          Sep 9 '11 at 1:30






        • 1





          I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 9 '11 at 2:37











        • I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

          – Louis Rhys
          Sep 9 '11 at 7:50











        • Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 10 '11 at 3:04



















        • A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

          – Kit Z. Fox
          Sep 9 '11 at 1:30






        • 1





          I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 9 '11 at 2:37











        • I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

          – Louis Rhys
          Sep 9 '11 at 7:50











        • Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

          – tdhsmith
          Sep 10 '11 at 3:04

















        A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

        – Kit Z. Fox
        Sep 9 '11 at 1:30





        A very nice and thorough answer. How about "We must have to not play a game"? :)

        – Kit Z. Fox
        Sep 9 '11 at 1:30




        1




        1





        I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

        – tdhsmith
        Sep 9 '11 at 2:37





        I would avoid using both must and have to. I'm not an expert on semantics, so I can't explain very well how they work together, but usually the result is messy. Now I have no evidence or knowledge to back this up but I hypothesize that when you use them both, have to represents the necessity and must is forced to be interpreted as a marker of certainty (see 5b at thefreedictionary.com/must) In any case, I would interpret that sentence as "It seems to me that it is necessary for us to not play," which is close to the original "We must not play".

        – tdhsmith
        Sep 9 '11 at 2:37













        I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

        – Louis Rhys
        Sep 9 '11 at 7:50





        I don't see how the ordering of auxiliaries are related to this. As far as I can see the main issue is only the conundrum of meaning

        – Louis Rhys
        Sep 9 '11 at 7:50













        Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

        – tdhsmith
        Sep 10 '11 at 3:04





        Well I wanted to demonstrate that you couldn't use "must" to achieve the meaning desired because 1) nothing can occur before it to modify it (and things afterward cannot modify it, generally), 2) negating it does not produce the right meaning, and 3) adding another modal forces "must" to have a different, undesired interpretation. In a sense this is just the conundrum of meaning as you say, but I wanted to demonstrate explicitly why there weren't other options. It was probably a little over-the-top, yes. ;)

        – tdhsmith
        Sep 10 '11 at 3:04













        10














        To get the logical negation of "must", switch must with a different verb.



        A: We must study English grammar.

        B: No, we need not study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't need to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't have to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we are not required to study English grammar.






        share|improve this answer
























        • It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

          – Chibueze Opata
          Nov 14 '12 at 6:54
















        10














        To get the logical negation of "must", switch must with a different verb.



        A: We must study English grammar.

        B: No, we need not study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't need to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't have to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we are not required to study English grammar.






        share|improve this answer
























        • It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

          – Chibueze Opata
          Nov 14 '12 at 6:54














        10












        10








        10







        To get the logical negation of "must", switch must with a different verb.



        A: We must study English grammar.

        B: No, we need not study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't need to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't have to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we are not required to study English grammar.






        share|improve this answer













        To get the logical negation of "must", switch must with a different verb.



        A: We must study English grammar.

        B: No, we need not study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't need to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we don't have to study English grammar.
        or B: No, we are not required to study English grammar.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Sep 9 '11 at 0:41









        krubokrubo

        1,820912




        1,820912













        • It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

          – Chibueze Opata
          Nov 14 '12 at 6:54



















        • It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

          – Chibueze Opata
          Nov 14 '12 at 6:54

















        It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

        – Chibueze Opata
        Nov 14 '12 at 6:54





        It's always better to answer using the provided question as sample :)

        – Chibueze Opata
        Nov 14 '12 at 6:54











        4














        Remember that one of the defining characteristics of modals is that they can't function as infinitives. If you bear that in mind, it helps you predict the impossibility of what you are suggesting and similar sentences.



        So, the solution is that you need to find another periphrastic construct (usually "need to" or "have to" etc) with a similar meaning.






        share|improve this answer






























          4














          Remember that one of the defining characteristics of modals is that they can't function as infinitives. If you bear that in mind, it helps you predict the impossibility of what you are suggesting and similar sentences.



          So, the solution is that you need to find another periphrastic construct (usually "need to" or "have to" etc) with a similar meaning.






          share|improve this answer




























            4












            4








            4







            Remember that one of the defining characteristics of modals is that they can't function as infinitives. If you bear that in mind, it helps you predict the impossibility of what you are suggesting and similar sentences.



            So, the solution is that you need to find another periphrastic construct (usually "need to" or "have to" etc) with a similar meaning.






            share|improve this answer















            Remember that one of the defining characteristics of modals is that they can't function as infinitives. If you bear that in mind, it helps you predict the impossibility of what you are suggesting and similar sentences.



            So, the solution is that you need to find another periphrastic construct (usually "need to" or "have to" etc) with a similar meaning.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago









            sumelic

            46.2k8109212




            46.2k8109212










            answered Sep 9 '11 at 1:59









            Neil CoffeyNeil Coffey

            18k13268




            18k13268























                3














                Normally, a native English speaker would say something like:




                We don't have to play a game.




                They'd probably say it with an accent on "have" to denote that their intention is not the fact that they aren't playing the game, it's just that playing the game isn't an absolute necessary.






                share|improve this answer




























                  3














                  Normally, a native English speaker would say something like:




                  We don't have to play a game.




                  They'd probably say it with an accent on "have" to denote that their intention is not the fact that they aren't playing the game, it's just that playing the game isn't an absolute necessary.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    3












                    3








                    3







                    Normally, a native English speaker would say something like:




                    We don't have to play a game.




                    They'd probably say it with an accent on "have" to denote that their intention is not the fact that they aren't playing the game, it's just that playing the game isn't an absolute necessary.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Normally, a native English speaker would say something like:




                    We don't have to play a game.




                    They'd probably say it with an accent on "have" to denote that their intention is not the fact that they aren't playing the game, it's just that playing the game isn't an absolute necessary.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Sep 9 '11 at 0:58









                    ThursagenThursagen

                    35.1k38144214




                    35.1k38144214























                        1















                        A: We must play a game now.



                        B: Must we?







                        share|improve this answer




























                          1















                          A: We must play a game now.



                          B: Must we?







                          share|improve this answer


























                            1












                            1








                            1








                            A: We must play a game now.



                            B: Must we?







                            share|improve this answer














                            A: We must play a game now.



                            B: Must we?








                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Sep 9 '11 at 7:16









                            AutoresponderAutoresponder

                            4,2491423




                            4,2491423























                                -1














                                I think, must is mainly useful in exact/provable contexts like mathematical theorems. In such contexts, given the statement A is B (A must be B), if one disproves it then the disproval implies the opposite: A isn't B (A mustn't be B). In fact, in contemporary use: Must and must not are often used in deductions, e.g. for must see (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/must), points 4,5 or (collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/must_1), point 4.



                                I.e. both must and must not are obligations and if you want to express there is no such obligation, you need to drop that obligation (must) altogether. So when someone says "We must play a game now". You could use must to say:



                                There is no such must.



                                But we know that, must not has different meaning than do not have to, which for a new learner may seem counterintuitive. The negated form must not does not remove an obligation only switches it to counter obligation. This is how things behave in logic/deductions as mentioned above.



                                In fact, in modals: can, may, have to etc. the negations behave differently: obligations are removed. It is because the obligations involved are of different nature, they are: abilities, capacities, permissions, duties, etc. and so may be disobeyed/questioned/removed.



                                In contemporary use must itself is used outside deduction contexts and is similar to have to but that is IMO because people prefer using must when they want to impose absolute necessity of the obligation.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




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                                • Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  2 days ago











                                • You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  yesterday


















                                -1














                                I think, must is mainly useful in exact/provable contexts like mathematical theorems. In such contexts, given the statement A is B (A must be B), if one disproves it then the disproval implies the opposite: A isn't B (A mustn't be B). In fact, in contemporary use: Must and must not are often used in deductions, e.g. for must see (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/must), points 4,5 or (collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/must_1), point 4.



                                I.e. both must and must not are obligations and if you want to express there is no such obligation, you need to drop that obligation (must) altogether. So when someone says "We must play a game now". You could use must to say:



                                There is no such must.



                                But we know that, must not has different meaning than do not have to, which for a new learner may seem counterintuitive. The negated form must not does not remove an obligation only switches it to counter obligation. This is how things behave in logic/deductions as mentioned above.



                                In fact, in modals: can, may, have to etc. the negations behave differently: obligations are removed. It is because the obligations involved are of different nature, they are: abilities, capacities, permissions, duties, etc. and so may be disobeyed/questioned/removed.



                                In contemporary use must itself is used outside deduction contexts and is similar to have to but that is IMO because people prefer using must when they want to impose absolute necessity of the obligation.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                                • Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  2 days ago











                                • You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  yesterday
















                                -1












                                -1








                                -1







                                I think, must is mainly useful in exact/provable contexts like mathematical theorems. In such contexts, given the statement A is B (A must be B), if one disproves it then the disproval implies the opposite: A isn't B (A mustn't be B). In fact, in contemporary use: Must and must not are often used in deductions, e.g. for must see (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/must), points 4,5 or (collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/must_1), point 4.



                                I.e. both must and must not are obligations and if you want to express there is no such obligation, you need to drop that obligation (must) altogether. So when someone says "We must play a game now". You could use must to say:



                                There is no such must.



                                But we know that, must not has different meaning than do not have to, which for a new learner may seem counterintuitive. The negated form must not does not remove an obligation only switches it to counter obligation. This is how things behave in logic/deductions as mentioned above.



                                In fact, in modals: can, may, have to etc. the negations behave differently: obligations are removed. It is because the obligations involved are of different nature, they are: abilities, capacities, permissions, duties, etc. and so may be disobeyed/questioned/removed.



                                In contemporary use must itself is used outside deduction contexts and is similar to have to but that is IMO because people prefer using must when they want to impose absolute necessity of the obligation.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                I think, must is mainly useful in exact/provable contexts like mathematical theorems. In such contexts, given the statement A is B (A must be B), if one disproves it then the disproval implies the opposite: A isn't B (A mustn't be B). In fact, in contemporary use: Must and must not are often used in deductions, e.g. for must see (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/must), points 4,5 or (collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/must_1), point 4.



                                I.e. both must and must not are obligations and if you want to express there is no such obligation, you need to drop that obligation (must) altogether. So when someone says "We must play a game now". You could use must to say:



                                There is no such must.



                                But we know that, must not has different meaning than do not have to, which for a new learner may seem counterintuitive. The negated form must not does not remove an obligation only switches it to counter obligation. This is how things behave in logic/deductions as mentioned above.



                                In fact, in modals: can, may, have to etc. the negations behave differently: obligations are removed. It is because the obligations involved are of different nature, they are: abilities, capacities, permissions, duties, etc. and so may be disobeyed/questioned/removed.



                                In contemporary use must itself is used outside deduction contexts and is similar to have to but that is IMO because people prefer using must when they want to impose absolute necessity of the obligation.







                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday





















                                New contributor




                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                answered 2 days ago









                                LuborLubor

                                153




                                153




                                New contributor




                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                New contributor





                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                Lubor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.













                                • Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  2 days ago











                                • You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  yesterday





















                                • Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  2 days ago











                                • You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

                                  – Toby Speight
                                  yesterday



















                                Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                – Toby Speight
                                2 days ago





                                Welcome to English Language & Usage! Can you quote some references to substantiate this answer? As it stands, we have no idea whether you've researched this thoroughly or are merely guessing.

                                – Toby Speight
                                2 days ago













                                You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

                                – Toby Speight
                                yesterday







                                You should edit the answer to provide the references, rather than writing them in a comment. Thanks!

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                                yesterday




















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