Harvesting resources from a geostationary point 100km above sea level
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Consider a planet which is entirely Earth-like. Same mass, same rotation, etc. But in this world, resource-rich objects are suspended by some phenomenon at varying altitudes up to 200km above sea level (effectively from the surface, since the highest point, Mt Everest, is >9km above sea level). Clarification: some are at 200km, some are at 5km, 50km... They are fixed relative to the planet's rotation, thereby always being above the same point on the surface. The resource is valuable, and must be harvested by a machine such as a modern backhoe loader (e.g. the arm on the back of a JCB digger).
How might a society with approximately our level of technology exploit these resources?
Up to perhaps ~10km, specialized helicopters or airships could be flown.
Anything at or above the Kármán line would pose a problem: the orbital period is 1 day, but the altitude and hence orbital velocity is far lower. An asteroid in a Keplerian orbit would be straightforward, if not cheap to harvest: a spacecraft could match its orbit. But in this case, if a regular spacecraft or spaceplane attempted to orbit at the same altitude, it would fly past the target very quickly.
Between the limit of helium balloons and the edge of space, there may be other problems.
How could people harvest the resources of the higher objects?
science-based orbital-mechanics mining
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
$endgroup$
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Consider a planet which is entirely Earth-like. Same mass, same rotation, etc. But in this world, resource-rich objects are suspended by some phenomenon at varying altitudes up to 200km above sea level (effectively from the surface, since the highest point, Mt Everest, is >9km above sea level). Clarification: some are at 200km, some are at 5km, 50km... They are fixed relative to the planet's rotation, thereby always being above the same point on the surface. The resource is valuable, and must be harvested by a machine such as a modern backhoe loader (e.g. the arm on the back of a JCB digger).
How might a society with approximately our level of technology exploit these resources?
Up to perhaps ~10km, specialized helicopters or airships could be flown.
Anything at or above the Kármán line would pose a problem: the orbital period is 1 day, but the altitude and hence orbital velocity is far lower. An asteroid in a Keplerian orbit would be straightforward, if not cheap to harvest: a spacecraft could match its orbit. But in this case, if a regular spacecraft or spaceplane attempted to orbit at the same altitude, it would fly past the target very quickly.
Between the limit of helium balloons and the edge of space, there may be other problems.
How could people harvest the resources of the higher objects?
science-based orbital-mechanics mining
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
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– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Consider a planet which is entirely Earth-like. Same mass, same rotation, etc. But in this world, resource-rich objects are suspended by some phenomenon at varying altitudes up to 200km above sea level (effectively from the surface, since the highest point, Mt Everest, is >9km above sea level). Clarification: some are at 200km, some are at 5km, 50km... They are fixed relative to the planet's rotation, thereby always being above the same point on the surface. The resource is valuable, and must be harvested by a machine such as a modern backhoe loader (e.g. the arm on the back of a JCB digger).
How might a society with approximately our level of technology exploit these resources?
Up to perhaps ~10km, specialized helicopters or airships could be flown.
Anything at or above the Kármán line would pose a problem: the orbital period is 1 day, but the altitude and hence orbital velocity is far lower. An asteroid in a Keplerian orbit would be straightforward, if not cheap to harvest: a spacecraft could match its orbit. But in this case, if a regular spacecraft or spaceplane attempted to orbit at the same altitude, it would fly past the target very quickly.
Between the limit of helium balloons and the edge of space, there may be other problems.
How could people harvest the resources of the higher objects?
science-based orbital-mechanics mining
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
$endgroup$
Consider a planet which is entirely Earth-like. Same mass, same rotation, etc. But in this world, resource-rich objects are suspended by some phenomenon at varying altitudes up to 200km above sea level (effectively from the surface, since the highest point, Mt Everest, is >9km above sea level). Clarification: some are at 200km, some are at 5km, 50km... They are fixed relative to the planet's rotation, thereby always being above the same point on the surface. The resource is valuable, and must be harvested by a machine such as a modern backhoe loader (e.g. the arm on the back of a JCB digger).
How might a society with approximately our level of technology exploit these resources?
Up to perhaps ~10km, specialized helicopters or airships could be flown.
Anything at or above the Kármán line would pose a problem: the orbital period is 1 day, but the altitude and hence orbital velocity is far lower. An asteroid in a Keplerian orbit would be straightforward, if not cheap to harvest: a spacecraft could match its orbit. But in this case, if a regular spacecraft or spaceplane attempted to orbit at the same altitude, it would fly past the target very quickly.
Between the limit of helium balloons and the edge of space, there may be other problems.
How could people harvest the resources of the higher objects?
science-based orbital-mechanics mining
science-based orbital-mechanics mining
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
edited 2 days ago
Cyn
5,846935
5,846935
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
asked 2 days ago
Valentin AslanyanValentin Aslanyan
1567
1567
4
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
$endgroup$
– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
4
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
$endgroup$
– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
$endgroup$
– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
$endgroup$
– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago
|
show 6 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Ballistic Trajectories
This is actually easier than getting to space. Space is hard because you have to go really fast to be in an orbit.
Achieving orbital height is easy. Achieving orbital velocity is hard.
So you build a rocket right beneath your "geostationary" resource, and give it just enough fuel to reach the height you need. Your rocket releases a payload, which has exactly zero velocity when it reaches your resource. The payload grabs on to an outcropping, or uses a harpoon, or otherwise attaches itself to the valuable thing.
Now, either the magic that keeps the resource in the air keeps your payload in the air, and it starts harvesting, or the whole thing is now too heavy for the magic and it falls towards earth, in which case the payload controls the landing.
This is hard, but not as hard as actually harpooning an asteriod, which we have done.
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Send impactors against them to reduce their momentum. They will lose altitude. After they descend some the increased atmospheric drag will cause them to deorbit and crash. You'll just need picks and shovels then.
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
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1
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What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
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– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
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Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
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– user43712
2 days ago
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@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
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– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
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– user43712
2 days ago
1
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Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Ballistic Trajectories
This is actually easier than getting to space. Space is hard because you have to go really fast to be in an orbit.
Achieving orbital height is easy. Achieving orbital velocity is hard.
So you build a rocket right beneath your "geostationary" resource, and give it just enough fuel to reach the height you need. Your rocket releases a payload, which has exactly zero velocity when it reaches your resource. The payload grabs on to an outcropping, or uses a harpoon, or otherwise attaches itself to the valuable thing.
Now, either the magic that keeps the resource in the air keeps your payload in the air, and it starts harvesting, or the whole thing is now too heavy for the magic and it falls towards earth, in which case the payload controls the landing.
This is hard, but not as hard as actually harpooning an asteriod, which we have done.
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Ballistic Trajectories
This is actually easier than getting to space. Space is hard because you have to go really fast to be in an orbit.
Achieving orbital height is easy. Achieving orbital velocity is hard.
So you build a rocket right beneath your "geostationary" resource, and give it just enough fuel to reach the height you need. Your rocket releases a payload, which has exactly zero velocity when it reaches your resource. The payload grabs on to an outcropping, or uses a harpoon, or otherwise attaches itself to the valuable thing.
Now, either the magic that keeps the resource in the air keeps your payload in the air, and it starts harvesting, or the whole thing is now too heavy for the magic and it falls towards earth, in which case the payload controls the landing.
This is hard, but not as hard as actually harpooning an asteriod, which we have done.
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Ballistic Trajectories
This is actually easier than getting to space. Space is hard because you have to go really fast to be in an orbit.
Achieving orbital height is easy. Achieving orbital velocity is hard.
So you build a rocket right beneath your "geostationary" resource, and give it just enough fuel to reach the height you need. Your rocket releases a payload, which has exactly zero velocity when it reaches your resource. The payload grabs on to an outcropping, or uses a harpoon, or otherwise attaches itself to the valuable thing.
Now, either the magic that keeps the resource in the air keeps your payload in the air, and it starts harvesting, or the whole thing is now too heavy for the magic and it falls towards earth, in which case the payload controls the landing.
This is hard, but not as hard as actually harpooning an asteriod, which we have done.
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
$endgroup$
Ballistic Trajectories
This is actually easier than getting to space. Space is hard because you have to go really fast to be in an orbit.
Achieving orbital height is easy. Achieving orbital velocity is hard.
So you build a rocket right beneath your "geostationary" resource, and give it just enough fuel to reach the height you need. Your rocket releases a payload, which has exactly zero velocity when it reaches your resource. The payload grabs on to an outcropping, or uses a harpoon, or otherwise attaches itself to the valuable thing.
Now, either the magic that keeps the resource in the air keeps your payload in the air, and it starts harvesting, or the whole thing is now too heavy for the magic and it falls towards earth, in which case the payload controls the landing.
This is hard, but not as hard as actually harpooning an asteriod, which we have done.
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
answered 2 days ago
codeMonkeycodeMonkey
2,314714
2,314714
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Technically, would you not point the rocket slightly ahead of the object, since the object's ωr would be higher than the rocket's on the ground, so you need to increase your angular velocity a bit?
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - Yes, and you'd have to account for air resistance, cross winds, etc. The engineering implementation is non-trivial, but it's still easier than pretty much all other space operations. Your mass budget is much looser, because the speed is much lower.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I would assume that you would need the active control systems of something like modern day's Falcon 9 to reach an object, probably use a small amount of thrust to loiter for some time, assess the situation etc and then have a controlled landing like F9's first stage. I think this would be trickier for Vostok 1 levels of technology, for instance. Of course, private companies would have a lot more incentive to innovate.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Heck, up to 50 km or so you could use balloons.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Valentin - probably not required but certainly very useful. I could see an alternate history space race where the US and USSR are struggling to mine this in the 70s and 80s. They would definitely develop Falcon like thruster systems eventually.
$endgroup$
– codeMonkey
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Send impactors against them to reduce their momentum. They will lose altitude. After they descend some the increased atmospheric drag will cause them to deorbit and crash. You'll just need picks and shovels then.
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
Send impactors against them to reduce their momentum. They will lose altitude. After they descend some the increased atmospheric drag will cause them to deorbit and crash. You'll just need picks and shovels then.
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
Send impactors against them to reduce their momentum. They will lose altitude. After they descend some the increased atmospheric drag will cause them to deorbit and crash. You'll just need picks and shovels then.
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
$endgroup$
Send impactors against them to reduce their momentum. They will lose altitude. After they descend some the increased atmospheric drag will cause them to deorbit and crash. You'll just need picks and shovels then.
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
answered 2 days ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
45.2k11104228
1
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
1
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
What guarantee is there that impactors - even if they do manage to slow down the orbital velocity of one object - would reduce its altitude? Clearly, the objects are not purely "orbiting" the planet in a Keplerian sense. If our laws of physics hold, there must be an additional force opposing the gravitational attraction of the planet, to stop the objects deorbiting in the first place.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Things are held in orbit by their velocity (perpendicular to the surface of the earth that they are directly over) as they move around earth. The higher their velocity, the further out from earth they can orbit without falling down due to gravity. Collisions with objects would cause a decrease in velocity, meaning they can't stay that high in orbit anymore. Then gravity takes over and does the hard work for you, dragging them down to earth from where you can collect them
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@user43712 Yes, but clearly these objects must have an additional force keeping them in their orbits. Before firing an impactor, one could notice that the extra force is higher the lower the object's altitude (since, as noted in the question the objects have 1 day orbital period both at 5km and 200km). Gravity is always acting, it's just that there is an additional force (one that implicitly does not act on the "mined" resource alone).
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@ValentinAslanyan ahh yes that makes sense. In that case, what if the reason they float up there is simply density? They're so sparse that they are able to float on the edges of the atmosphere like clouds. The shuttles you send up could fly through the cloud, causing it to condense and have the valuable materials rain down as a liquid which can then be used/refined however its collectors decide
$endgroup$
– user43712
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Hi, everybody. I'm from the Please Don't Drop Rocks On Us From Space society. If you could just sign here....
$endgroup$
– Mazura
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
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4
$begingroup$
What keeps the resources fixed above the same point on the surface? Whatever that is may be used to harvest those resources.
$endgroup$
– Abigail
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Abigail Let's suppose that the mechanism cannot be harnessed.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
How large are these objects, typically?
$endgroup$
– notovny
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@notovny Linear dimensions of order 1 to 10m.
$endgroup$
– Valentin Aslanyan
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Would shrapnel and debris chipped off of the objects fall to Earth, or would they continue in suspension? How does the magic determine what is to fall or hover?
$endgroup$
– B.fox
2 days ago