In terms of rating points, how much stronger should a coach be than their student?












14















I'm considering getting a chess coach with the general goal of reaching the WIM title (2200 rating, plus norms; or get lucky in an Oceania Zonal). I'm not sure how realistic this is. However, almost everyone with a title nowadays considers themselves a chess coach, so I should be a bit selective. I have a few questions, but my first is...



Question: In terms of rating points, how much stronger should a coach be than their student?



My current rating is 1792 and in a recent tournament in China (after two years without tournament play) my performance was 1889, including a draw with an FM and a win against a 2247-rated player.



So I have concerns that a coach around the 2300 level might not be able to help me achieve my goal. But I could be completely wrong about this.










share|improve this question


















  • 4





    +1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

    – Mazura
    2 days ago








  • 1





    By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

    – corsiKa
    yesterday











  • Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

    – Voile
    22 hours ago
















14















I'm considering getting a chess coach with the general goal of reaching the WIM title (2200 rating, plus norms; or get lucky in an Oceania Zonal). I'm not sure how realistic this is. However, almost everyone with a title nowadays considers themselves a chess coach, so I should be a bit selective. I have a few questions, but my first is...



Question: In terms of rating points, how much stronger should a coach be than their student?



My current rating is 1792 and in a recent tournament in China (after two years without tournament play) my performance was 1889, including a draw with an FM and a win against a 2247-rated player.



So I have concerns that a coach around the 2300 level might not be able to help me achieve my goal. But I could be completely wrong about this.










share|improve this question


















  • 4





    +1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

    – Mazura
    2 days ago








  • 1





    By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

    – corsiKa
    yesterday











  • Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

    – Voile
    22 hours ago














14












14








14








I'm considering getting a chess coach with the general goal of reaching the WIM title (2200 rating, plus norms; or get lucky in an Oceania Zonal). I'm not sure how realistic this is. However, almost everyone with a title nowadays considers themselves a chess coach, so I should be a bit selective. I have a few questions, but my first is...



Question: In terms of rating points, how much stronger should a coach be than their student?



My current rating is 1792 and in a recent tournament in China (after two years without tournament play) my performance was 1889, including a draw with an FM and a win against a 2247-rated player.



So I have concerns that a coach around the 2300 level might not be able to help me achieve my goal. But I could be completely wrong about this.










share|improve this question














I'm considering getting a chess coach with the general goal of reaching the WIM title (2200 rating, plus norms; or get lucky in an Oceania Zonal). I'm not sure how realistic this is. However, almost everyone with a title nowadays considers themselves a chess coach, so I should be a bit selective. I have a few questions, but my first is...



Question: In terms of rating points, how much stronger should a coach be than their student?



My current rating is 1792 and in a recent tournament in China (after two years without tournament play) my performance was 1889, including a draw with an FM and a win against a 2247-rated player.



So I have concerns that a coach around the 2300 level might not be able to help me achieve my goal. But I could be completely wrong about this.







coach






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











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share|improve this question










asked 2 days ago









Rebecca J. StonesRebecca J. Stones

762319




762319








  • 4





    +1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

    – Mazura
    2 days ago








  • 1





    By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

    – corsiKa
    yesterday











  • Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

    – Voile
    22 hours ago














  • 4





    +1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

    – Mazura
    2 days ago








  • 1





    By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

    – corsiKa
    yesterday











  • Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

    – Voile
    22 hours ago








4




4





+1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

– Mazura
2 days ago







+1. This is how you write titles, people. how much stronger should a coach be than their student? well, lemme tell you what... oh, in terms of "rating points", nevermind. Carry on.

– Mazura
2 days ago






1




1





By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

– corsiKa
yesterday





By this logic, none of the super GMs could have a coach. And while it is true he once engaged Garry Kasparov as a coach, Kasparov is not the only person to have coached the wunderkind over the years.

– corsiKa
yesterday













Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

– Voile
22 hours ago





Just like any other sports, the purpose of a coach is not to teach you the play itself - you should've been able to figure out that on your own - but to help you on various aspects that make you play better. Peter Heine Nielsen, Magnus Carlsen's second, is well-known for coming up with good match strategies which can be seen in WCC 2018. A coach is not judged by how good they play, but how good they make you play better.

– Voile
22 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















26














So, you are about 1800 and you are worried that a coach with a rating 500 points higher than you will not be able to give you the help you require?



I think you are too fixated on rating. What do you think a player rated about 2400 looks for in a coach? Do they also "need" somebody rated 500 points higher? While he was alive IM Mark Dvoretsky coached grandmasters. How was that even possible?



A coach who can help you improve by several hundred rating points is not going to do it by magically transferring his extra rating points. He will do it by teaching you how to study and work better, by directing the work that you do and to some extent by motivating you to do the work.



When you sit down at the chess board the moves that come out will reflect the work that you have done, how much, what type, not the rating of your coach. The most important factor your coach has is how good a teacher, trainer and guide he is not how strong a player. Look for these qualities first.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

    – David Richerby
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

    – wizzwizz4
    yesterday






  • 1





    But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

    – ferit
    yesterday






  • 3





    @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

    – David Richerby
    yesterday






  • 2





    Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

    – Ben Crowell
    yesterday





















6














This is a quote from Wikipedia:




Nielsen coached World Champion Vishy Anand from 2002 until 2012. Anand won the World Championship title in Mexico 2007, and defended it in Bonn 2008, Sofia 2010 and Moscow 2012. Nielsen has been coaching world number one, Magnus Carlsen, since 2013. Carlsen won the Candidates Tournament 2013, which gave him the right to challenge Anand for the world championship. He defeated Anand, and has since defended the title three times.




I am not sure in terms of rating points, how much stronger is Peter Heine Nielsen than Vishy Anand and Magnus Carlsen.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

    – user2813274
    yesterday





















4














Unless you are looking for an idol rather than a coach, you should focus on their ability to coach rather than their ability to play competitively. Check the ratings of their pupils, not their own ratings.






share|improve this answer































    3














    I suspect you'll work need to quite hard for your goal. Rising from 1792 to 2200 is not so simple for your age (no offence).



    Chess coaches in Australia like kids, only few people in the country seriously deal with people around your level and age. There is simply no profit margin for coaching an adult.



    My recommendation is to get an IM+, someone who has time and dedication to look after you. www.chesschat.org is a better place for your question.






    share|improve this answer

























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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      26














      So, you are about 1800 and you are worried that a coach with a rating 500 points higher than you will not be able to give you the help you require?



      I think you are too fixated on rating. What do you think a player rated about 2400 looks for in a coach? Do they also "need" somebody rated 500 points higher? While he was alive IM Mark Dvoretsky coached grandmasters. How was that even possible?



      A coach who can help you improve by several hundred rating points is not going to do it by magically transferring his extra rating points. He will do it by teaching you how to study and work better, by directing the work that you do and to some extent by motivating you to do the work.



      When you sit down at the chess board the moves that come out will reflect the work that you have done, how much, what type, not the rating of your coach. The most important factor your coach has is how good a teacher, trainer and guide he is not how strong a player. Look for these qualities first.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 2





        A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago






      • 1





        @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

        – wizzwizz4
        yesterday






      • 1





        But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

        – ferit
        yesterday






      • 3





        @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

        – David Richerby
        yesterday






      • 2





        Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

        – Ben Crowell
        yesterday


















      26














      So, you are about 1800 and you are worried that a coach with a rating 500 points higher than you will not be able to give you the help you require?



      I think you are too fixated on rating. What do you think a player rated about 2400 looks for in a coach? Do they also "need" somebody rated 500 points higher? While he was alive IM Mark Dvoretsky coached grandmasters. How was that even possible?



      A coach who can help you improve by several hundred rating points is not going to do it by magically transferring his extra rating points. He will do it by teaching you how to study and work better, by directing the work that you do and to some extent by motivating you to do the work.



      When you sit down at the chess board the moves that come out will reflect the work that you have done, how much, what type, not the rating of your coach. The most important factor your coach has is how good a teacher, trainer and guide he is not how strong a player. Look for these qualities first.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 2





        A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago






      • 1





        @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

        – wizzwizz4
        yesterday






      • 1





        But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

        – ferit
        yesterday






      • 3





        @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

        – David Richerby
        yesterday






      • 2





        Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

        – Ben Crowell
        yesterday
















      26












      26








      26







      So, you are about 1800 and you are worried that a coach with a rating 500 points higher than you will not be able to give you the help you require?



      I think you are too fixated on rating. What do you think a player rated about 2400 looks for in a coach? Do they also "need" somebody rated 500 points higher? While he was alive IM Mark Dvoretsky coached grandmasters. How was that even possible?



      A coach who can help you improve by several hundred rating points is not going to do it by magically transferring his extra rating points. He will do it by teaching you how to study and work better, by directing the work that you do and to some extent by motivating you to do the work.



      When you sit down at the chess board the moves that come out will reflect the work that you have done, how much, what type, not the rating of your coach. The most important factor your coach has is how good a teacher, trainer and guide he is not how strong a player. Look for these qualities first.






      share|improve this answer













      So, you are about 1800 and you are worried that a coach with a rating 500 points higher than you will not be able to give you the help you require?



      I think you are too fixated on rating. What do you think a player rated about 2400 looks for in a coach? Do they also "need" somebody rated 500 points higher? While he was alive IM Mark Dvoretsky coached grandmasters. How was that even possible?



      A coach who can help you improve by several hundred rating points is not going to do it by magically transferring his extra rating points. He will do it by teaching you how to study and work better, by directing the work that you do and to some extent by motivating you to do the work.



      When you sit down at the chess board the moves that come out will reflect the work that you have done, how much, what type, not the rating of your coach. The most important factor your coach has is how good a teacher, trainer and guide he is not how strong a player. Look for these qualities first.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 2 days ago









      Brian TowersBrian Towers

      14.5k32664




      14.5k32664








      • 2





        A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago






      • 1





        @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

        – wizzwizz4
        yesterday






      • 1





        But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

        – ferit
        yesterday






      • 3





        @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

        – David Richerby
        yesterday






      • 2





        Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

        – Ben Crowell
        yesterday
















      • 2





        A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

        – David Richerby
        2 days ago






      • 1





        @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

        – wizzwizz4
        yesterday






      • 1





        But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

        – ferit
        yesterday






      • 3





        @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

        – David Richerby
        yesterday






      • 2





        Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

        – Ben Crowell
        yesterday










      2




      2





      A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

      – David Richerby
      2 days ago





      A coach isn't necessarily a he, but +1 for everything else.

      – David Richerby
      2 days ago




      1




      1





      @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

      – wizzwizz4
      yesterday





      @ferit "they"'s been around for a couple of centuries.

      – wizzwizz4
      yesterday




      1




      1





      But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

      – ferit
      yesterday





      But it's plural. I mean a singular word.

      – ferit
      yesterday




      3




      3





      @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

      – David Richerby
      yesterday





      @ferit Singular "they" has been around for a couple of centuries.

      – David Richerby
      yesterday




      2




      2





      Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

      – Ben Crowell
      yesterday







      Generic "they" has existed in English since the 14th century. It was used by Shakespeare and Austen. Romeo and Juliet has it: "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" Even the most hard-core prescriptivist grammarians tend to favor it, e.g., Fowler, 3rd ed.

      – Ben Crowell
      yesterday













      6














      This is a quote from Wikipedia:




      Nielsen coached World Champion Vishy Anand from 2002 until 2012. Anand won the World Championship title in Mexico 2007, and defended it in Bonn 2008, Sofia 2010 and Moscow 2012. Nielsen has been coaching world number one, Magnus Carlsen, since 2013. Carlsen won the Candidates Tournament 2013, which gave him the right to challenge Anand for the world championship. He defeated Anand, and has since defended the title three times.




      I am not sure in terms of rating points, how much stronger is Peter Heine Nielsen than Vishy Anand and Magnus Carlsen.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 2





        Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

        – user2813274
        yesterday


















      6














      This is a quote from Wikipedia:




      Nielsen coached World Champion Vishy Anand from 2002 until 2012. Anand won the World Championship title in Mexico 2007, and defended it in Bonn 2008, Sofia 2010 and Moscow 2012. Nielsen has been coaching world number one, Magnus Carlsen, since 2013. Carlsen won the Candidates Tournament 2013, which gave him the right to challenge Anand for the world championship. He defeated Anand, and has since defended the title three times.




      I am not sure in terms of rating points, how much stronger is Peter Heine Nielsen than Vishy Anand and Magnus Carlsen.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 2





        Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

        – user2813274
        yesterday
















      6












      6








      6







      This is a quote from Wikipedia:




      Nielsen coached World Champion Vishy Anand from 2002 until 2012. Anand won the World Championship title in Mexico 2007, and defended it in Bonn 2008, Sofia 2010 and Moscow 2012. Nielsen has been coaching world number one, Magnus Carlsen, since 2013. Carlsen won the Candidates Tournament 2013, which gave him the right to challenge Anand for the world championship. He defeated Anand, and has since defended the title three times.




      I am not sure in terms of rating points, how much stronger is Peter Heine Nielsen than Vishy Anand and Magnus Carlsen.






      share|improve this answer













      This is a quote from Wikipedia:




      Nielsen coached World Champion Vishy Anand from 2002 until 2012. Anand won the World Championship title in Mexico 2007, and defended it in Bonn 2008, Sofia 2010 and Moscow 2012. Nielsen has been coaching world number one, Magnus Carlsen, since 2013. Carlsen won the Candidates Tournament 2013, which gave him the right to challenge Anand for the world championship. He defeated Anand, and has since defended the title three times.




      I am not sure in terms of rating points, how much stronger is Peter Heine Nielsen than Vishy Anand and Magnus Carlsen.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered yesterday









      ZurielZuriel

      488210




      488210








      • 2





        Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

        – user2813274
        yesterday
















      • 2





        Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

        – user2813274
        yesterday










      2




      2





      Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

      – user2813274
      yesterday







      Nielsen is currently at 2635, Anand at 2773, and Carlsen at 2835 according to FIDE (Jan, 2019) - just FYI

      – user2813274
      yesterday













      4














      Unless you are looking for an idol rather than a coach, you should focus on their ability to coach rather than their ability to play competitively. Check the ratings of their pupils, not their own ratings.






      share|improve this answer




























        4














        Unless you are looking for an idol rather than a coach, you should focus on their ability to coach rather than their ability to play competitively. Check the ratings of their pupils, not their own ratings.






        share|improve this answer


























          4












          4








          4







          Unless you are looking for an idol rather than a coach, you should focus on their ability to coach rather than their ability to play competitively. Check the ratings of their pupils, not their own ratings.






          share|improve this answer













          Unless you are looking for an idol rather than a coach, you should focus on their ability to coach rather than their ability to play competitively. Check the ratings of their pupils, not their own ratings.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday







          user18275






























              3














              I suspect you'll work need to quite hard for your goal. Rising from 1792 to 2200 is not so simple for your age (no offence).



              Chess coaches in Australia like kids, only few people in the country seriously deal with people around your level and age. There is simply no profit margin for coaching an adult.



              My recommendation is to get an IM+, someone who has time and dedication to look after you. www.chesschat.org is a better place for your question.






              share|improve this answer






























                3














                I suspect you'll work need to quite hard for your goal. Rising from 1792 to 2200 is not so simple for your age (no offence).



                Chess coaches in Australia like kids, only few people in the country seriously deal with people around your level and age. There is simply no profit margin for coaching an adult.



                My recommendation is to get an IM+, someone who has time and dedication to look after you. www.chesschat.org is a better place for your question.






                share|improve this answer




























                  3












                  3








                  3







                  I suspect you'll work need to quite hard for your goal. Rising from 1792 to 2200 is not so simple for your age (no offence).



                  Chess coaches in Australia like kids, only few people in the country seriously deal with people around your level and age. There is simply no profit margin for coaching an adult.



                  My recommendation is to get an IM+, someone who has time and dedication to look after you. www.chesschat.org is a better place for your question.






                  share|improve this answer















                  I suspect you'll work need to quite hard for your goal. Rising from 1792 to 2200 is not so simple for your age (no offence).



                  Chess coaches in Australia like kids, only few people in the country seriously deal with people around your level and age. There is simply no profit margin for coaching an adult.



                  My recommendation is to get an IM+, someone who has time and dedication to look after you. www.chesschat.org is a better place for your question.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited yesterday









                  Yaron

                  8371415




                  8371415










                  answered 2 days ago









                  SmallChessSmallChess

                  14.7k22248




                  14.7k22248






























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