Mathematics and the art of linearizing the circle
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One of the most prominent problems of ancient mathematics was the squaring of the circle: to construct the square with the same area as a given circle.
A related problem is linearizing the circle: to find a natural transition between a given line segment of length $L$ and the circle with circumference $U = 2pi R = L$ (which presupposes to find the radius $R = L/2pi$).
The main "problem" is: Along which paths are the points of the line segment to be moved to finally yield the circle such that the transition appears "natural".
By natural I mean this transition:
The points of the line segments follow these paths:
as can be seen here:
To be honest: Even though these paths look very much like circle segments, I'm not quite sure and I didn't define them by an explicit formula (which I didn't have at hand) but heuristically using some support points and splining.
My questions are:
Are these paths really circle segments?
If so: How to parametrize them?
If not so: What kind of curves are they otherwise?
Please allow me – freely associating – to compare the pictures above with this (artificially symmetrized) picture of The Great Wave off Kanagawa
modular-arithmetic euclidean-geometry projective-geometry visualization art
$endgroup$
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
One of the most prominent problems of ancient mathematics was the squaring of the circle: to construct the square with the same area as a given circle.
A related problem is linearizing the circle: to find a natural transition between a given line segment of length $L$ and the circle with circumference $U = 2pi R = L$ (which presupposes to find the radius $R = L/2pi$).
The main "problem" is: Along which paths are the points of the line segment to be moved to finally yield the circle such that the transition appears "natural".
By natural I mean this transition:
The points of the line segments follow these paths:
as can be seen here:
To be honest: Even though these paths look very much like circle segments, I'm not quite sure and I didn't define them by an explicit formula (which I didn't have at hand) but heuristically using some support points and splining.
My questions are:
Are these paths really circle segments?
If so: How to parametrize them?
If not so: What kind of curves are they otherwise?
Please allow me – freely associating – to compare the pictures above with this (artificially symmetrized) picture of The Great Wave off Kanagawa
modular-arithmetic euclidean-geometry projective-geometry visualization art
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
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– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
$endgroup$
– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
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– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
$endgroup$
– rafa11111
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
$begingroup$
One of the most prominent problems of ancient mathematics was the squaring of the circle: to construct the square with the same area as a given circle.
A related problem is linearizing the circle: to find a natural transition between a given line segment of length $L$ and the circle with circumference $U = 2pi R = L$ (which presupposes to find the radius $R = L/2pi$).
The main "problem" is: Along which paths are the points of the line segment to be moved to finally yield the circle such that the transition appears "natural".
By natural I mean this transition:
The points of the line segments follow these paths:
as can be seen here:
To be honest: Even though these paths look very much like circle segments, I'm not quite sure and I didn't define them by an explicit formula (which I didn't have at hand) but heuristically using some support points and splining.
My questions are:
Are these paths really circle segments?
If so: How to parametrize them?
If not so: What kind of curves are they otherwise?
Please allow me – freely associating – to compare the pictures above with this (artificially symmetrized) picture of The Great Wave off Kanagawa
modular-arithmetic euclidean-geometry projective-geometry visualization art
$endgroup$
One of the most prominent problems of ancient mathematics was the squaring of the circle: to construct the square with the same area as a given circle.
A related problem is linearizing the circle: to find a natural transition between a given line segment of length $L$ and the circle with circumference $U = 2pi R = L$ (which presupposes to find the radius $R = L/2pi$).
The main "problem" is: Along which paths are the points of the line segment to be moved to finally yield the circle such that the transition appears "natural".
By natural I mean this transition:
The points of the line segments follow these paths:
as can be seen here:
To be honest: Even though these paths look very much like circle segments, I'm not quite sure and I didn't define them by an explicit formula (which I didn't have at hand) but heuristically using some support points and splining.
My questions are:
Are these paths really circle segments?
If so: How to parametrize them?
If not so: What kind of curves are they otherwise?
Please allow me – freely associating – to compare the pictures above with this (artificially symmetrized) picture of The Great Wave off Kanagawa
modular-arithmetic euclidean-geometry projective-geometry visualization art
modular-arithmetic euclidean-geometry projective-geometry visualization art
edited 13 hours ago
Hans Stricker
asked 14 hours ago
Hans StrickerHans Stricker
6,44743993
6,44743993
4
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
$endgroup$
– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
$endgroup$
– rafa11111
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
4
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
$endgroup$
– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
$endgroup$
– rafa11111
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
$endgroup$
– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
$endgroup$
– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
$endgroup$
– rafa11111
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
$endgroup$
– rafa11111
13 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
$endgroup$
– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
What you want can be achieved using circle arcs, centered at $(0,r)$, of radius $r$ and central angle $2pi R/r$, with $r$ varying between $1$ and $+infty$. But I don't know if that is "natural" or not. Here's how it looks:
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
If we want this transition to have all the points on the boundary of a circle at all times, then it makes most sense to parameterize by the radius of this circle (and apply a transformation to get it in terms of finite time later). For simplicity, I will also have the transition be to a vertical line.
We shall have the radius of the circle $C_r$ be $r$ and centre be $(-r,0)$, such that $(0,0)$ is on $C_r$ for all $r$. The coordinates of the point at arclength $s$ from $(0,0)$ are then given by $(r (cos(s/r) - 1), r sin(s/r))$.
The most natural way to transition would likely be varying the curvature at a constant rate; thus we create a family of curves $f_t:[-pi, pi]tomathbb{R}^2$ where $tin[0,1]$ by
begin{align}
f_t(s) &= left(frac{cos(s(1-t))-1}{1-t}, frac{sin(s(1-t))}{1-t}right)&t<1\
f_1(s) &= (0, s)&
end{align}
Since the goals here seem to be rather subjective, I would attempt this and see how it looks to you (beyond making substitutions as needed to result in a horizontal line).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
What you want can be achieved using circle arcs, centered at $(0,r)$, of radius $r$ and central angle $2pi R/r$, with $r$ varying between $1$ and $+infty$. But I don't know if that is "natural" or not. Here's how it looks:
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
What you want can be achieved using circle arcs, centered at $(0,r)$, of radius $r$ and central angle $2pi R/r$, with $r$ varying between $1$ and $+infty$. But I don't know if that is "natural" or not. Here's how it looks:
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
What you want can be achieved using circle arcs, centered at $(0,r)$, of radius $r$ and central angle $2pi R/r$, with $r$ varying between $1$ and $+infty$. But I don't know if that is "natural" or not. Here's how it looks:
$endgroup$
What you want can be achieved using circle arcs, centered at $(0,r)$, of radius $r$ and central angle $2pi R/r$, with $r$ varying between $1$ and $+infty$. But I don't know if that is "natural" or not. Here's how it looks:
edited 13 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
AretinoAretino
24.4k21443
24.4k21443
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's essentially my approach. Good to know, that an expert like you came to the same conclusion. Concerning "natural": which approach could be more "natural"?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
How (and with which tools) did you create your elegant animated gif? (I had a hard time with mine.)
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I used GeoGebra, which is free: www.geogebra.org
$endgroup$
– Aretino
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you share this plot with me, i.e. save the plot and share the link?
$endgroup$
– Hans Stricker
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Here it is: ggbm.at/kyx9q3he
$endgroup$
– Aretino
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
If we want this transition to have all the points on the boundary of a circle at all times, then it makes most sense to parameterize by the radius of this circle (and apply a transformation to get it in terms of finite time later). For simplicity, I will also have the transition be to a vertical line.
We shall have the radius of the circle $C_r$ be $r$ and centre be $(-r,0)$, such that $(0,0)$ is on $C_r$ for all $r$. The coordinates of the point at arclength $s$ from $(0,0)$ are then given by $(r (cos(s/r) - 1), r sin(s/r))$.
The most natural way to transition would likely be varying the curvature at a constant rate; thus we create a family of curves $f_t:[-pi, pi]tomathbb{R}^2$ where $tin[0,1]$ by
begin{align}
f_t(s) &= left(frac{cos(s(1-t))-1}{1-t}, frac{sin(s(1-t))}{1-t}right)&t<1\
f_1(s) &= (0, s)&
end{align}
Since the goals here seem to be rather subjective, I would attempt this and see how it looks to you (beyond making substitutions as needed to result in a horizontal line).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If we want this transition to have all the points on the boundary of a circle at all times, then it makes most sense to parameterize by the radius of this circle (and apply a transformation to get it in terms of finite time later). For simplicity, I will also have the transition be to a vertical line.
We shall have the radius of the circle $C_r$ be $r$ and centre be $(-r,0)$, such that $(0,0)$ is on $C_r$ for all $r$. The coordinates of the point at arclength $s$ from $(0,0)$ are then given by $(r (cos(s/r) - 1), r sin(s/r))$.
The most natural way to transition would likely be varying the curvature at a constant rate; thus we create a family of curves $f_t:[-pi, pi]tomathbb{R}^2$ where $tin[0,1]$ by
begin{align}
f_t(s) &= left(frac{cos(s(1-t))-1}{1-t}, frac{sin(s(1-t))}{1-t}right)&t<1\
f_1(s) &= (0, s)&
end{align}
Since the goals here seem to be rather subjective, I would attempt this and see how it looks to you (beyond making substitutions as needed to result in a horizontal line).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If we want this transition to have all the points on the boundary of a circle at all times, then it makes most sense to parameterize by the radius of this circle (and apply a transformation to get it in terms of finite time later). For simplicity, I will also have the transition be to a vertical line.
We shall have the radius of the circle $C_r$ be $r$ and centre be $(-r,0)$, such that $(0,0)$ is on $C_r$ for all $r$. The coordinates of the point at arclength $s$ from $(0,0)$ are then given by $(r (cos(s/r) - 1), r sin(s/r))$.
The most natural way to transition would likely be varying the curvature at a constant rate; thus we create a family of curves $f_t:[-pi, pi]tomathbb{R}^2$ where $tin[0,1]$ by
begin{align}
f_t(s) &= left(frac{cos(s(1-t))-1}{1-t}, frac{sin(s(1-t))}{1-t}right)&t<1\
f_1(s) &= (0, s)&
end{align}
Since the goals here seem to be rather subjective, I would attempt this and see how it looks to you (beyond making substitutions as needed to result in a horizontal line).
$endgroup$
If we want this transition to have all the points on the boundary of a circle at all times, then it makes most sense to parameterize by the radius of this circle (and apply a transformation to get it in terms of finite time later). For simplicity, I will also have the transition be to a vertical line.
We shall have the radius of the circle $C_r$ be $r$ and centre be $(-r,0)$, such that $(0,0)$ is on $C_r$ for all $r$. The coordinates of the point at arclength $s$ from $(0,0)$ are then given by $(r (cos(s/r) - 1), r sin(s/r))$.
The most natural way to transition would likely be varying the curvature at a constant rate; thus we create a family of curves $f_t:[-pi, pi]tomathbb{R}^2$ where $tin[0,1]$ by
begin{align}
f_t(s) &= left(frac{cos(s(1-t))-1}{1-t}, frac{sin(s(1-t))}{1-t}right)&t<1\
f_1(s) &= (0, s)&
end{align}
Since the goals here seem to be rather subjective, I would attempt this and see how it looks to you (beyond making substitutions as needed to result in a horizontal line).
answered 13 hours ago
KhorossKhoross
811
811
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
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Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
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– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Note that the paths of the endpoints are given by setting $s = pm pi$ in your parametric curve. The resulting paths are not circle segments (as the OP guessed they might be); this can be seen by calculating their curvature.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
9 hours ago
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4
$begingroup$
Do we have an actual definition of what it means for this transition to "appear natural"?
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– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
I think it would be "natural" to think of a family of curves $gamma_t$, $tin[0,1]$, of constant curvature such that $gamma_0$ is the flat line (curvature 0), $gamma_1$ is the circle (curvature 1/R) and each $gamma_t$ has curvature $tcdot1/R$.
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– Mars Plastic
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
I think you could probably make a map that "appears natural" using circles for the paths, and you could also probably make a different map without using circles that also "appears natural". So without a definition of what that term means, I don't know what answer you are looking for.
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– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something, but this 'transition' seems quite arbitrary to me.
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– rafa11111
13 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
You ask about making it "appear natural", but it's not clear what this means. You have things that look like circle segments, and you ask if they "really are circle segments", but we just have a picture, so how can we tell?
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– Morgan Rodgers
13 hours ago