What options are left, if Britain cannot decide?
To my understanding, the lawful government of the united kingdom has decided, following due process, that:
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
Given that, what happens when the set date arrives? (Whether that is 29 Mar, or an extension is appplied for and granted)
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since your parliament ruled out both the negotiated deal and a hard brexit, we assume that all treaties are still valid."?
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since you did trigger article 50 and declined the negotiated deal, we (regretfully) assume that all treaties now are void"?
EU27 are supposed to honor the decisions of UKs legal government, but what are the options if the stance of that government is literally "we cannot decide"?
united-kingdom european-union brexit
|
show 3 more comments
To my understanding, the lawful government of the united kingdom has decided, following due process, that:
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
Given that, what happens when the set date arrives? (Whether that is 29 Mar, or an extension is appplied for and granted)
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since your parliament ruled out both the negotiated deal and a hard brexit, we assume that all treaties are still valid."?
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since you did trigger article 50 and declined the negotiated deal, we (regretfully) assume that all treaties now are void"?
EU27 are supposed to honor the decisions of UKs legal government, but what are the options if the stance of that government is literally "we cannot decide"?
united-kingdom european-union brexit
11
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
7
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
3
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
2
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
4
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
To my understanding, the lawful government of the united kingdom has decided, following due process, that:
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
Given that, what happens when the set date arrives? (Whether that is 29 Mar, or an extension is appplied for and granted)
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since your parliament ruled out both the negotiated deal and a hard brexit, we assume that all treaties are still valid."?
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since you did trigger article 50 and declined the negotiated deal, we (regretfully) assume that all treaties now are void"?
EU27 are supposed to honor the decisions of UKs legal government, but what are the options if the stance of that government is literally "we cannot decide"?
united-kingdom european-union brexit
To my understanding, the lawful government of the united kingdom has decided, following due process, that:
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
Given that, what happens when the set date arrives? (Whether that is 29 Mar, or an extension is appplied for and granted)
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since your parliament ruled out both the negotiated deal and a hard brexit, we assume that all treaties are still valid."?
Can EU27 simply assume that "Since you did trigger article 50 and declined the negotiated deal, we (regretfully) assume that all treaties now are void"?
EU27 are supposed to honor the decisions of UKs legal government, but what are the options if the stance of that government is literally "we cannot decide"?
united-kingdom european-union brexit
united-kingdom european-union brexit
asked 14 hours ago
GuranGuran
8031616
8031616
11
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
7
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
3
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
2
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
4
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
11
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
7
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
3
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
2
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
4
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago
11
11
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
7
7
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
3
3
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
2
2
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
4
4
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
The United Kingdom shall not leave the European Union without a deal
That is not a legal decision. This is just a wish that Parliament has expressed.
If nothing else changes, as things currently stand¹ (2019-03-14T09:09Z) the UK will leave the the EU without any agreement on 29 March, against the wishes of Parliament. To change this, the UK must either:
- Unilaterally withdraw article 50 and cancel Brexit;
- apply for an extension, which must be approved by the EU and its member states;
- or accept the Withdrawal Agreement.
¹The situation is rapidly changing. This answer may be out of date within 12 hours of being written.
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
The EU isn't going to assume anything.
Article 50 is a formal process, triggered by the UK. If the UK neither accepts the deal, nor asks and get granted an extension, nor withdraws its intention to leave the EU, the UK will leave the EU, 00:00 March 30, 2019 (Brussels time). That's what the Article 50 procedure mean.
Everything between the EU and the UK follows a set procedure, and it's (mostly) the UK who determines which direction it goes:
- The UK accepts the deal. Then the UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with a deal. Else,
- The UK withdraws its intention to leave the EU. Then the UK stays in the EU. Else,
- The UK asks for an extension, and the EU grants that extension. Then we go back to point 1, but with a different date. Else,
- The UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with no deal.
No assumptions by the EU.
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The EU can't force the UK to stay. The UK can unilaterally withdraw from the treaties that make it part of the EU. The EU continuing to act as if the UK had not withdrawn would be pointless and detrimental to the EU, as the UK would not be obliged to follow any of the rules any more and thus have a huge trade advantage.
The UK could ask for an extension to the Article 50 process, which the EU could accept or deny.
The UK could unilaterally cancel brexit by withdrawing its Article 50 notification. EU courts have ruled that this is possible if done in good faith.
If the UK simply fails to make any decision then it will crash out of the EU on March 29th and there is little that the EU can actually do about it.
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
We cannot know
Brexit or not is determined by EU law and politics and by UK law and politics at the same time.
EU Law
The European Court of Justice has ruled
The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicatedin writing to the European Council.
Such a revocation confirms the EU membership of the Member State concernedunder terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State and brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
UK Law
Parliament is sovereign, and it cannot constrain its future actions.
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
These are in order. If later actions by Parliament conflict with earlier ones, the later actions win.
So currently, Parliament has stated "the UK shall not leave the EU without a deal". Any act of Parliament prior to that doesn't contradict it; it contradicts any earlier act.
On the other hand, Parliament has arguably not made an unequivocal and unconditional decision and communicated it to the European Council in writing (that last part is easy; someone can print out the bill and literally walk it over; the first part, less so).
The decision that the UK Parliament made is conditional (on no deal being made), or at least equivocal in its conditionalness.
Or, arguably, the UK has through its democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements has now stated that at the end of March it will have withdrawn from Article 50 if there was no deal in place or extension; at that point, there is remaining condition, and "we won't leave the EU without a deal" is unequivocal.
The meaning of this action could even be decided retroactively: Imagine the day after Brexit, everyone proceeds as if it was a hard Brexit. Borders clank shut, etc.
That very day, May loses the confidence of the House, she gets replaced by someone whose position is that UK never left the EU due to this resolution, and they convince the ECJ to agree with them.
Or the exact same narrative can occur, except the ECJ could say "no, that isn't how it works, please apply for membership again".
There is no clear answer. This is the realm of politics, optics, and law without precident.
Words on TV by politicians or pundits could fundamentally change what this action means, long after the action's meaning has seemingly settled.
Enough people state "it is non binding", and that actually makes it less binding. Enough people state "it is binding, May can no longer legally leave the EU without a deal", and that actually makes it more binding. Because popular interpretation of what was done can sway what it means.
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The United Kingdom shall not leave the European Union without a deal
That is not a legal decision. This is just a wish that Parliament has expressed.
If nothing else changes, as things currently stand¹ (2019-03-14T09:09Z) the UK will leave the the EU without any agreement on 29 March, against the wishes of Parliament. To change this, the UK must either:
- Unilaterally withdraw article 50 and cancel Brexit;
- apply for an extension, which must be approved by the EU and its member states;
- or accept the Withdrawal Agreement.
¹The situation is rapidly changing. This answer may be out of date within 12 hours of being written.
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
The United Kingdom shall not leave the European Union without a deal
That is not a legal decision. This is just a wish that Parliament has expressed.
If nothing else changes, as things currently stand¹ (2019-03-14T09:09Z) the UK will leave the the EU without any agreement on 29 March, against the wishes of Parliament. To change this, the UK must either:
- Unilaterally withdraw article 50 and cancel Brexit;
- apply for an extension, which must be approved by the EU and its member states;
- or accept the Withdrawal Agreement.
¹The situation is rapidly changing. This answer may be out of date within 12 hours of being written.
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
The United Kingdom shall not leave the European Union without a deal
That is not a legal decision. This is just a wish that Parliament has expressed.
If nothing else changes, as things currently stand¹ (2019-03-14T09:09Z) the UK will leave the the EU without any agreement on 29 March, against the wishes of Parliament. To change this, the UK must either:
- Unilaterally withdraw article 50 and cancel Brexit;
- apply for an extension, which must be approved by the EU and its member states;
- or accept the Withdrawal Agreement.
¹The situation is rapidly changing. This answer may be out of date within 12 hours of being written.
The United Kingdom shall not leave the European Union without a deal
That is not a legal decision. This is just a wish that Parliament has expressed.
If nothing else changes, as things currently stand¹ (2019-03-14T09:09Z) the UK will leave the the EU without any agreement on 29 March, against the wishes of Parliament. To change this, the UK must either:
- Unilaterally withdraw article 50 and cancel Brexit;
- apply for an extension, which must be approved by the EU and its member states;
- or accept the Withdrawal Agreement.
¹The situation is rapidly changing. This answer may be out of date within 12 hours of being written.
edited 10 hours ago
Orangesandlemons
2,054620
2,054620
answered 14 hours ago
gerritgerrit
19.1k779179
19.1k779179
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
19
19
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
This is correct; the UK "made the decision" to leave the EU without a deal when it sent the Article 50 notification. Until it rescinds that, it stands.
– pjc50
13 hours ago
3
3
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
Note that if the WA is agreed by Parliament, there will probably need to be a short extension anyway in order to enact all the (UK) legislation necessary to implement it.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
6
6
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff I would expect such a purely pragmatic extension to be mostly uncontroversial (unless a "we still don't know what we want" extension).
– gerrit
13 hours ago
5
5
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
@gerrit: agreed. The EU have indicated that any extension needs to have a purpose; and this would certainly count, especially since the EU much prefers the WA to no deal.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
1
1
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
@gerrit What would be required for a unilateral withdrawal of article 50? A referendum?
– Kyle Wardle
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
The EU isn't going to assume anything.
Article 50 is a formal process, triggered by the UK. If the UK neither accepts the deal, nor asks and get granted an extension, nor withdraws its intention to leave the EU, the UK will leave the EU, 00:00 March 30, 2019 (Brussels time). That's what the Article 50 procedure mean.
Everything between the EU and the UK follows a set procedure, and it's (mostly) the UK who determines which direction it goes:
- The UK accepts the deal. Then the UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with a deal. Else,
- The UK withdraws its intention to leave the EU. Then the UK stays in the EU. Else,
- The UK asks for an extension, and the EU grants that extension. Then we go back to point 1, but with a different date. Else,
- The UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with no deal.
No assumptions by the EU.
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The EU isn't going to assume anything.
Article 50 is a formal process, triggered by the UK. If the UK neither accepts the deal, nor asks and get granted an extension, nor withdraws its intention to leave the EU, the UK will leave the EU, 00:00 March 30, 2019 (Brussels time). That's what the Article 50 procedure mean.
Everything between the EU and the UK follows a set procedure, and it's (mostly) the UK who determines which direction it goes:
- The UK accepts the deal. Then the UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with a deal. Else,
- The UK withdraws its intention to leave the EU. Then the UK stays in the EU. Else,
- The UK asks for an extension, and the EU grants that extension. Then we go back to point 1, but with a different date. Else,
- The UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with no deal.
No assumptions by the EU.
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The EU isn't going to assume anything.
Article 50 is a formal process, triggered by the UK. If the UK neither accepts the deal, nor asks and get granted an extension, nor withdraws its intention to leave the EU, the UK will leave the EU, 00:00 March 30, 2019 (Brussels time). That's what the Article 50 procedure mean.
Everything between the EU and the UK follows a set procedure, and it's (mostly) the UK who determines which direction it goes:
- The UK accepts the deal. Then the UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with a deal. Else,
- The UK withdraws its intention to leave the EU. Then the UK stays in the EU. Else,
- The UK asks for an extension, and the EU grants that extension. Then we go back to point 1, but with a different date. Else,
- The UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with no deal.
No assumptions by the EU.
The EU isn't going to assume anything.
Article 50 is a formal process, triggered by the UK. If the UK neither accepts the deal, nor asks and get granted an extension, nor withdraws its intention to leave the EU, the UK will leave the EU, 00:00 March 30, 2019 (Brussels time). That's what the Article 50 procedure mean.
Everything between the EU and the UK follows a set procedure, and it's (mostly) the UK who determines which direction it goes:
- The UK accepts the deal. Then the UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with a deal. Else,
- The UK withdraws its intention to leave the EU. Then the UK stays in the EU. Else,
- The UK asks for an extension, and the EU grants that extension. Then we go back to point 1, but with a different date. Else,
- The UK leaves the EU on 2019-03-30 00:00 with no deal.
No assumptions by the EU.
answered 12 hours ago
AbigailAbigail
1,082412
1,082412
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
The question at hand here is who "The UK" actually is, when neither government or parliament can agree on a position. Imagine EU27 simply stating "We negotiated with your head of government and reached a deal. We will honour our part and expect the UK to do the same."
– Guran
11 hours ago
8
8
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
@Jontia That's London time. Which is why explicitly mentioned Brussels time.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
5
5
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
@Guran Part of the deal is that it needs to be ratified by parliament. Make treaties/deals/laws which need to be ratified by the national parliaments is on par for the EU.
– Abigail
11 hours ago
1
1
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
@ouflak Doesn't that automatically follow from the "else" part on point 3? Point 3 says "The UK asks for an extension and the EU grants that extension". If either the UK does not ask for an extension, or the EU doesn't grant one, we fall through to option 4, which is "the UK leaves with no deal".
– Abigail
7 hours ago
1
1
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
@ouflak The use of "else" in each of the other points implies that point 4 happen if none of the conditions of the other point happen. Not seeking an extension or seeking an extension and not getting it are the same.
– Abigail
7 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
The EU can't force the UK to stay. The UK can unilaterally withdraw from the treaties that make it part of the EU. The EU continuing to act as if the UK had not withdrawn would be pointless and detrimental to the EU, as the UK would not be obliged to follow any of the rules any more and thus have a huge trade advantage.
The UK could ask for an extension to the Article 50 process, which the EU could accept or deny.
The UK could unilaterally cancel brexit by withdrawing its Article 50 notification. EU courts have ruled that this is possible if done in good faith.
If the UK simply fails to make any decision then it will crash out of the EU on March 29th and there is little that the EU can actually do about it.
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The EU can't force the UK to stay. The UK can unilaterally withdraw from the treaties that make it part of the EU. The EU continuing to act as if the UK had not withdrawn would be pointless and detrimental to the EU, as the UK would not be obliged to follow any of the rules any more and thus have a huge trade advantage.
The UK could ask for an extension to the Article 50 process, which the EU could accept or deny.
The UK could unilaterally cancel brexit by withdrawing its Article 50 notification. EU courts have ruled that this is possible if done in good faith.
If the UK simply fails to make any decision then it will crash out of the EU on March 29th and there is little that the EU can actually do about it.
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The EU can't force the UK to stay. The UK can unilaterally withdraw from the treaties that make it part of the EU. The EU continuing to act as if the UK had not withdrawn would be pointless and detrimental to the EU, as the UK would not be obliged to follow any of the rules any more and thus have a huge trade advantage.
The UK could ask for an extension to the Article 50 process, which the EU could accept or deny.
The UK could unilaterally cancel brexit by withdrawing its Article 50 notification. EU courts have ruled that this is possible if done in good faith.
If the UK simply fails to make any decision then it will crash out of the EU on March 29th and there is little that the EU can actually do about it.
The EU can't force the UK to stay. The UK can unilaterally withdraw from the treaties that make it part of the EU. The EU continuing to act as if the UK had not withdrawn would be pointless and detrimental to the EU, as the UK would not be obliged to follow any of the rules any more and thus have a huge trade advantage.
The UK could ask for an extension to the Article 50 process, which the EU could accept or deny.
The UK could unilaterally cancel brexit by withdrawing its Article 50 notification. EU courts have ruled that this is possible if done in good faith.
If the UK simply fails to make any decision then it will crash out of the EU on March 29th and there is little that the EU can actually do about it.
answered 13 hours ago
useruser
8,44421835
8,44421835
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
The EU certainly cannot force the UK to stay. It could however, in theory, unilaterally decide to act as if the UK was still part of the union until the UK does something that would blatantly break the treaties (had they still been in effect). Granted, this would break a few WTO rules, but...
– Guran
10 hours ago
3
3
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Guran The EU is a bit more than just a bunch of countries who use treaties for some casual interaction. How should the European Parliament, the European Commission or any of the other myriad of organizations do their daily job "acting as if the UK never left"?
– Abigail
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Abigail The Parliament, the Commission, the Court of Justice etc would naturally have to act witout UK participation. And I agree, this is a very naive speculation. 27 nations would never be able to keep up such a course of action in reality.
– Guran
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
@Guran what possible benefit would this have for the EU?
– user
9 hours ago
1
1
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
@Guran but surely if the UK did leave without a deal it would immediately start doing deals with other countries, and has in fact already announced a new tariff schedule, all things that would start damaging the EU. In fact merely weakening the fixed requirements of being in the single market would immediately damage the EU. Remember that the single market is nearly 7 times as big as the UK market.
– user
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
We cannot know
Brexit or not is determined by EU law and politics and by UK law and politics at the same time.
EU Law
The European Court of Justice has ruled
The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicatedin writing to the European Council.
Such a revocation confirms the EU membership of the Member State concernedunder terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State and brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
UK Law
Parliament is sovereign, and it cannot constrain its future actions.
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
These are in order. If later actions by Parliament conflict with earlier ones, the later actions win.
So currently, Parliament has stated "the UK shall not leave the EU without a deal". Any act of Parliament prior to that doesn't contradict it; it contradicts any earlier act.
On the other hand, Parliament has arguably not made an unequivocal and unconditional decision and communicated it to the European Council in writing (that last part is easy; someone can print out the bill and literally walk it over; the first part, less so).
The decision that the UK Parliament made is conditional (on no deal being made), or at least equivocal in its conditionalness.
Or, arguably, the UK has through its democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements has now stated that at the end of March it will have withdrawn from Article 50 if there was no deal in place or extension; at that point, there is remaining condition, and "we won't leave the EU without a deal" is unequivocal.
The meaning of this action could even be decided retroactively: Imagine the day after Brexit, everyone proceeds as if it was a hard Brexit. Borders clank shut, etc.
That very day, May loses the confidence of the House, she gets replaced by someone whose position is that UK never left the EU due to this resolution, and they convince the ECJ to agree with them.
Or the exact same narrative can occur, except the ECJ could say "no, that isn't how it works, please apply for membership again".
There is no clear answer. This is the realm of politics, optics, and law without precident.
Words on TV by politicians or pundits could fundamentally change what this action means, long after the action's meaning has seemingly settled.
Enough people state "it is non binding", and that actually makes it less binding. Enough people state "it is binding, May can no longer legally leave the EU without a deal", and that actually makes it more binding. Because popular interpretation of what was done can sway what it means.
add a comment |
We cannot know
Brexit or not is determined by EU law and politics and by UK law and politics at the same time.
EU Law
The European Court of Justice has ruled
The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicatedin writing to the European Council.
Such a revocation confirms the EU membership of the Member State concernedunder terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State and brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
UK Law
Parliament is sovereign, and it cannot constrain its future actions.
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
These are in order. If later actions by Parliament conflict with earlier ones, the later actions win.
So currently, Parliament has stated "the UK shall not leave the EU without a deal". Any act of Parliament prior to that doesn't contradict it; it contradicts any earlier act.
On the other hand, Parliament has arguably not made an unequivocal and unconditional decision and communicated it to the European Council in writing (that last part is easy; someone can print out the bill and literally walk it over; the first part, less so).
The decision that the UK Parliament made is conditional (on no deal being made), or at least equivocal in its conditionalness.
Or, arguably, the UK has through its democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements has now stated that at the end of March it will have withdrawn from Article 50 if there was no deal in place or extension; at that point, there is remaining condition, and "we won't leave the EU without a deal" is unequivocal.
The meaning of this action could even be decided retroactively: Imagine the day after Brexit, everyone proceeds as if it was a hard Brexit. Borders clank shut, etc.
That very day, May loses the confidence of the House, she gets replaced by someone whose position is that UK never left the EU due to this resolution, and they convince the ECJ to agree with them.
Or the exact same narrative can occur, except the ECJ could say "no, that isn't how it works, please apply for membership again".
There is no clear answer. This is the realm of politics, optics, and law without precident.
Words on TV by politicians or pundits could fundamentally change what this action means, long after the action's meaning has seemingly settled.
Enough people state "it is non binding", and that actually makes it less binding. Enough people state "it is binding, May can no longer legally leave the EU without a deal", and that actually makes it more binding. Because popular interpretation of what was done can sway what it means.
add a comment |
We cannot know
Brexit or not is determined by EU law and politics and by UK law and politics at the same time.
EU Law
The European Court of Justice has ruled
The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicatedin writing to the European Council.
Such a revocation confirms the EU membership of the Member State concernedunder terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State and brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
UK Law
Parliament is sovereign, and it cannot constrain its future actions.
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
These are in order. If later actions by Parliament conflict with earlier ones, the later actions win.
So currently, Parliament has stated "the UK shall not leave the EU without a deal". Any act of Parliament prior to that doesn't contradict it; it contradicts any earlier act.
On the other hand, Parliament has arguably not made an unequivocal and unconditional decision and communicated it to the European Council in writing (that last part is easy; someone can print out the bill and literally walk it over; the first part, less so).
The decision that the UK Parliament made is conditional (on no deal being made), or at least equivocal in its conditionalness.
Or, arguably, the UK has through its democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements has now stated that at the end of March it will have withdrawn from Article 50 if there was no deal in place or extension; at that point, there is remaining condition, and "we won't leave the EU without a deal" is unequivocal.
The meaning of this action could even be decided retroactively: Imagine the day after Brexit, everyone proceeds as if it was a hard Brexit. Borders clank shut, etc.
That very day, May loses the confidence of the House, she gets replaced by someone whose position is that UK never left the EU due to this resolution, and they convince the ECJ to agree with them.
Or the exact same narrative can occur, except the ECJ could say "no, that isn't how it works, please apply for membership again".
There is no clear answer. This is the realm of politics, optics, and law without precident.
Words on TV by politicians or pundits could fundamentally change what this action means, long after the action's meaning has seemingly settled.
Enough people state "it is non binding", and that actually makes it less binding. Enough people state "it is binding, May can no longer legally leave the EU without a deal", and that actually makes it more binding. Because popular interpretation of what was done can sway what it means.
We cannot know
Brexit or not is determined by EU law and politics and by UK law and politics at the same time.
EU Law
The European Court of Justice has ruled
The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicatedin writing to the European Council.
Such a revocation confirms the EU membership of the Member State concernedunder terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State and brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
UK Law
Parliament is sovereign, and it cannot constrain its future actions.
- The united kingdom shall leave the european union at a set date (currently 29 Mar 2019)
- The united kingdom shall not accept the deal negotiated with EU27
- The united kingdom shall not leave the european union without a deal
These are in order. If later actions by Parliament conflict with earlier ones, the later actions win.
So currently, Parliament has stated "the UK shall not leave the EU without a deal". Any act of Parliament prior to that doesn't contradict it; it contradicts any earlier act.
On the other hand, Parliament has arguably not made an unequivocal and unconditional decision and communicated it to the European Council in writing (that last part is easy; someone can print out the bill and literally walk it over; the first part, less so).
The decision that the UK Parliament made is conditional (on no deal being made), or at least equivocal in its conditionalness.
Or, arguably, the UK has through its democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements has now stated that at the end of March it will have withdrawn from Article 50 if there was no deal in place or extension; at that point, there is remaining condition, and "we won't leave the EU without a deal" is unequivocal.
The meaning of this action could even be decided retroactively: Imagine the day after Brexit, everyone proceeds as if it was a hard Brexit. Borders clank shut, etc.
That very day, May loses the confidence of the House, she gets replaced by someone whose position is that UK never left the EU due to this resolution, and they convince the ECJ to agree with them.
Or the exact same narrative can occur, except the ECJ could say "no, that isn't how it works, please apply for membership again".
There is no clear answer. This is the realm of politics, optics, and law without precident.
Words on TV by politicians or pundits could fundamentally change what this action means, long after the action's meaning has seemingly settled.
Enough people state "it is non binding", and that actually makes it less binding. Enough people state "it is binding, May can no longer legally leave the EU without a deal", and that actually makes it more binding. Because popular interpretation of what was done can sway what it means.
answered 4 hours ago
YakkYakk
986310
986310
add a comment |
add a comment |
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11
It is Parliament, not the Government, which has decided this, especially items 2 and 3. Under normal circumstances, the distinction would not be all that important. However, right now, this distinction is critical.
– Steve Melnikoff
13 hours ago
7
@SteveMelnikoff I'm going to be pedantic here: Parliament (at the prompting of the Government) enacted point 1 into United Kingdom law. The House of Commons decided point 2 (very much against the wish of the Government). The House of Commons also decided point 3 (against the wish of the Government, although it was in favour of "shall not leave the EU without a deal on 29th March").
– Martin Bonner
12 hours ago
3
@MartinBonner: agreed; and I'm all for pedantry. :-)
– Steve Melnikoff
12 hours ago
2
"Britain" has already decided, via the referendum. The only issue is that a small bunch of non-value-added economic parasites (aka members of parliament) don't want to lose their jobs at the next election.
– alephzero
9 hours ago
4
@alephzero A non-binding resolution with a razor-thin margin, in which the Leave campaign broke every relevant law they could think of and lied continually about what leaving the EU would look like (for example, that we wouldn't trigger A50 until all the treaties and agreements were hammered out), which was then seized by a combination of Tory politicians as a figleaf for a leadership challenge, and a group of investors who shorted sterling and made millions when the economy tanked.
– Ross Thompson
6 hours ago