Are Hungarian and Turkish related?
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10
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I was told by somebody who has lived near Hungary that she thought that Hungarian and Turkish were related, and that their languages are very similar. A brief google search seems to support this.
However, that article does say that this grouping is "criticized by some contemporary linguists" and the article doesn't seem to be linked from the main Turkish language page (it is on the Hungarian one though). The main consensus seems to be that Hungarian is more related to Finnish than Turkish as well.
Today, are these considered related languages in terms of origin? And which is Hungarian really closer to, Finnish or Turkish? (Hungary seems ethnically closer to Turkey but it's not quite geographically close to either)
comparative-linguistics turkish turkic-languages hungarian uralic
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
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show 6 more comments
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
I was told by somebody who has lived near Hungary that she thought that Hungarian and Turkish were related, and that their languages are very similar. A brief google search seems to support this.
However, that article does say that this grouping is "criticized by some contemporary linguists" and the article doesn't seem to be linked from the main Turkish language page (it is on the Hungarian one though). The main consensus seems to be that Hungarian is more related to Finnish than Turkish as well.
Today, are these considered related languages in terms of origin? And which is Hungarian really closer to, Finnish or Turkish? (Hungary seems ethnically closer to Turkey but it's not quite geographically close to either)
comparative-linguistics turkish turkic-languages hungarian uralic
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
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Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
1
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
1
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday
|
show 6 more comments
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
I was told by somebody who has lived near Hungary that she thought that Hungarian and Turkish were related, and that their languages are very similar. A brief google search seems to support this.
However, that article does say that this grouping is "criticized by some contemporary linguists" and the article doesn't seem to be linked from the main Turkish language page (it is on the Hungarian one though). The main consensus seems to be that Hungarian is more related to Finnish than Turkish as well.
Today, are these considered related languages in terms of origin? And which is Hungarian really closer to, Finnish or Turkish? (Hungary seems ethnically closer to Turkey but it's not quite geographically close to either)
comparative-linguistics turkish turkic-languages hungarian uralic
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I was told by somebody who has lived near Hungary that she thought that Hungarian and Turkish were related, and that their languages are very similar. A brief google search seems to support this.
However, that article does say that this grouping is "criticized by some contemporary linguists" and the article doesn't seem to be linked from the main Turkish language page (it is on the Hungarian one though). The main consensus seems to be that Hungarian is more related to Finnish than Turkish as well.
Today, are these considered related languages in terms of origin? And which is Hungarian really closer to, Finnish or Turkish? (Hungary seems ethnically closer to Turkey but it's not quite geographically close to either)
comparative-linguistics turkish turkic-languages hungarian uralic
comparative-linguistics turkish turkic-languages hungarian uralic
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Dec 16 at 17:43
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
asked Dec 15 at 20:21
Riker
21916
21916
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Riker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
1
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
1
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday
|
show 6 more comments
The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
1
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
1
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday
The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
1
1
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
1
1
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday
|
show 6 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
Turkish and Hungarian are typologically similar: They are both agglutinating languages with vowel harmony and rather rich vowel inventories.
They are, to our best knowledge, not genetically related. Hungarian belongs to the Uralic language family including Finnish, Estonian, Sami, and about a dozen languages spoken in Russia. Turkish belongs to the Turkic language family. Many linguists in the past and in the present have speculated about larger language families comprising both Uralic and Turkic, but no demonstrable regular correspondences have been found so far.
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Hungarian belongs to the Finno-Ugric subgroup of the Uralic language family, while Turkish belongs to the controversial Altaic language family. Nevertheless, Hungarian has had some kind of contact with Turkic languages, hence the influence in its vocabulary. However language relationship cannot be based on loanwords and contact based influence, but systematic correspondences in phonology (regular sound laws) and grammar. So, Hungarian is undoubtedly closer to Finnish as a member of the same language family, but not closer than what Spanish is to Welsh (both Indo-European languages in different subgroups). Hungarian is closer to other Ugric languages which like Finnish and Estonian belong to the Uralic language family.
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Hungarian belongs to Uralic language family. Turkish belongs to Altaic language family. Both language groups belong to super Uralic-Altaic language family. Uralic-Altaic languages have many commonalities;
- Suffix oriented
- Vowel harmony
- No genders like he, she or it
- No plural form after numbers, like five cow
- Special words for people older than you
Both languages are Asiatic, they have originated from close locations. There are cultural similarities as both are from almost same steppes.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
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2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
|
show 13 more comments
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
Turkish and Hungarian are typologically similar: They are both agglutinating languages with vowel harmony and rather rich vowel inventories.
They are, to our best knowledge, not genetically related. Hungarian belongs to the Uralic language family including Finnish, Estonian, Sami, and about a dozen languages spoken in Russia. Turkish belongs to the Turkic language family. Many linguists in the past and in the present have speculated about larger language families comprising both Uralic and Turkic, but no demonstrable regular correspondences have been found so far.
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
Turkish and Hungarian are typologically similar: They are both agglutinating languages with vowel harmony and rather rich vowel inventories.
They are, to our best knowledge, not genetically related. Hungarian belongs to the Uralic language family including Finnish, Estonian, Sami, and about a dozen languages spoken in Russia. Turkish belongs to the Turkic language family. Many linguists in the past and in the present have speculated about larger language families comprising both Uralic and Turkic, but no demonstrable regular correspondences have been found so far.
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
Turkish and Hungarian are typologically similar: They are both agglutinating languages with vowel harmony and rather rich vowel inventories.
They are, to our best knowledge, not genetically related. Hungarian belongs to the Uralic language family including Finnish, Estonian, Sami, and about a dozen languages spoken in Russia. Turkish belongs to the Turkic language family. Many linguists in the past and in the present have speculated about larger language families comprising both Uralic and Turkic, but no demonstrable regular correspondences have been found so far.
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
Turkish and Hungarian are typologically similar: They are both agglutinating languages with vowel harmony and rather rich vowel inventories.
They are, to our best knowledge, not genetically related. Hungarian belongs to the Uralic language family including Finnish, Estonian, Sami, and about a dozen languages spoken in Russia. Turkish belongs to the Turkic language family. Many linguists in the past and in the present have speculated about larger language families comprising both Uralic and Turkic, but no demonstrable regular correspondences have been found so far.
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
edited Dec 16 at 9:43
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
answered Dec 15 at 20:41
jknappen
10.4k22751
10.4k22751
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
add a comment |
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
11
11
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
It worth mentioning that "Hungarian is a Turkic language" is still a popular theory in Hungary. It is, of course, completely unfounded and is espoused for ideological reasons, but the situation can be confusing for laypeople.
– user54748
Dec 15 at 21:01
5
5
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
@user54748 What ideological reasons do people espouse it for, anyway? I find it kind of surprising that Hungarians would generally want to associate themselves more closely with Turkish peoples (I mean, feel a close cultural and/or historical connection)...?
– Owen_R
Dec 15 at 23:04
5
5
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
@Owen_R because of pan-Turanism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
– ubadub
Dec 16 at 3:31
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
I've decided to accept this answer since it seems to be the most accurate and up-to-date one.
– Riker
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Hungarian belongs to the Finno-Ugric subgroup of the Uralic language family, while Turkish belongs to the controversial Altaic language family. Nevertheless, Hungarian has had some kind of contact with Turkic languages, hence the influence in its vocabulary. However language relationship cannot be based on loanwords and contact based influence, but systematic correspondences in phonology (regular sound laws) and grammar. So, Hungarian is undoubtedly closer to Finnish as a member of the same language family, but not closer than what Spanish is to Welsh (both Indo-European languages in different subgroups). Hungarian is closer to other Ugric languages which like Finnish and Estonian belong to the Uralic language family.
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
Hungarian belongs to the Finno-Ugric subgroup of the Uralic language family, while Turkish belongs to the controversial Altaic language family. Nevertheless, Hungarian has had some kind of contact with Turkic languages, hence the influence in its vocabulary. However language relationship cannot be based on loanwords and contact based influence, but systematic correspondences in phonology (regular sound laws) and grammar. So, Hungarian is undoubtedly closer to Finnish as a member of the same language family, but not closer than what Spanish is to Welsh (both Indo-European languages in different subgroups). Hungarian is closer to other Ugric languages which like Finnish and Estonian belong to the Uralic language family.
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Hungarian belongs to the Finno-Ugric subgroup of the Uralic language family, while Turkish belongs to the controversial Altaic language family. Nevertheless, Hungarian has had some kind of contact with Turkic languages, hence the influence in its vocabulary. However language relationship cannot be based on loanwords and contact based influence, but systematic correspondences in phonology (regular sound laws) and grammar. So, Hungarian is undoubtedly closer to Finnish as a member of the same language family, but not closer than what Spanish is to Welsh (both Indo-European languages in different subgroups). Hungarian is closer to other Ugric languages which like Finnish and Estonian belong to the Uralic language family.
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
Hungarian belongs to the Finno-Ugric subgroup of the Uralic language family, while Turkish belongs to the controversial Altaic language family. Nevertheless, Hungarian has had some kind of contact with Turkic languages, hence the influence in its vocabulary. However language relationship cannot be based on loanwords and contact based influence, but systematic correspondences in phonology (regular sound laws) and grammar. So, Hungarian is undoubtedly closer to Finnish as a member of the same language family, but not closer than what Spanish is to Welsh (both Indo-European languages in different subgroups). Hungarian is closer to other Ugric languages which like Finnish and Estonian belong to the Uralic language family.
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
edited Dec 16 at 8:02
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
answered Dec 15 at 20:48
Midas
1,657714
1,657714
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
|
show 3 more comments
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker Do you refer to Hungarian and Finnish specifically?
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:12
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: To get a simple idea you can look at this: helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/f-h-ety.html I will have a look for something on grammar that is not too complicated.
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:31
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
@Riker: It is hard to get simple when it comes to grammar comparisons. Anyway, here is another paper analyzing grammatical aspects of Finno-Ugric. On page 44 you will also find a tree of the Uralic family. This is going to give you an idea on the linguistic distance between these languages. kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/81543/…
– Midas
Dec 15 at 22:53
1
1
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
Re: "Hungarian is [...] not closer [to Finnish] than what Spanish is to Russian": That seems like a rather bold claim. I'm not even sure quite how one would assess it. Do you have a reference?
– ruakh
Dec 16 at 6:59
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
@ruakh My point is that those languages belong to the same family but different subgroups. Apparently Spanish and Russian are more distant within IE, but Finnish and Hungarian are not that close either. Maybe Italo-Celtic would be a better comparison in this case.
– Midas
Dec 16 at 7:57
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Hungarian belongs to Uralic language family. Turkish belongs to Altaic language family. Both language groups belong to super Uralic-Altaic language family. Uralic-Altaic languages have many commonalities;
- Suffix oriented
- Vowel harmony
- No genders like he, she or it
- No plural form after numbers, like five cow
- Special words for people older than you
Both languages are Asiatic, they have originated from close locations. There are cultural similarities as both are from almost same steppes.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
|
show 13 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Hungarian belongs to Uralic language family. Turkish belongs to Altaic language family. Both language groups belong to super Uralic-Altaic language family. Uralic-Altaic languages have many commonalities;
- Suffix oriented
- Vowel harmony
- No genders like he, she or it
- No plural form after numbers, like five cow
- Special words for people older than you
Both languages are Asiatic, they have originated from close locations. There are cultural similarities as both are from almost same steppes.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
|
show 13 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Hungarian belongs to Uralic language family. Turkish belongs to Altaic language family. Both language groups belong to super Uralic-Altaic language family. Uralic-Altaic languages have many commonalities;
- Suffix oriented
- Vowel harmony
- No genders like he, she or it
- No plural form after numbers, like five cow
- Special words for people older than you
Both languages are Asiatic, they have originated from close locations. There are cultural similarities as both are from almost same steppes.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Hungarian belongs to Uralic language family. Turkish belongs to Altaic language family. Both language groups belong to super Uralic-Altaic language family. Uralic-Altaic languages have many commonalities;
- Suffix oriented
- Vowel harmony
- No genders like he, she or it
- No plural form after numbers, like five cow
- Special words for people older than you
Both languages are Asiatic, they have originated from close locations. There are cultural similarities as both are from almost same steppes.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
answered Dec 17 at 0:27
ilhan
1191
1191
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
ilhan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
|
show 13 more comments
2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
2
2
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
That language family (uralic-altaic) is not used anymore, since it has too many flaws. Do you have a better source?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:28
1
1
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Also, do you have a source for the "originated from close locations" part?
– Riker
Dec 17 at 0:29
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
Agglutination (suffixes) is by no means indicator of relationship. Georgian is agglutinative but has no relation to Turkish nor Hungarian. There are numerous agglutinative languages that have no relation at all. Also Altaic with exception to Turkic and Mongolian is a controversial group, which makes Ural-Altaic even more controversial. I would put a note on that if I were you, to avoid downvoting. Those are my five cents.
– Midas
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
@Riker it is taught in Turkish schools. Also as a source acikders.ankara.edu.tr/mod/page/view.php?id=18677&lang=en turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CAGDAS%20TURK%20LEHCELERI/temir.pdf
– ilhan
2 days ago
1
1
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
I'm not debating the relationships of those families specifically, I'm debating the classification of the Altaic family in general. Even a cursory google search gives an immediate result.
– Riker
yesterday
|
show 13 more comments
Riker is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Riker is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Riker is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Riker is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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The proposed "Finno-Ugric" grouping does not include Turkish at all, so I don't see how it is relevant to your question.
– sumelic
Dec 16 at 11:21
@Riker you are right, I should have just added it as a comment. There is a Wikipedia article about the Turkish words in the Hungarian language, but it's available in Hungarian language only ( hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ).
– Botond
Dec 16 at 13:17
@Botond thanks, that's a pretty interesting read (fed through google translate).
– Riker
Dec 16 at 17:15
1
Much of Hungary was ruled by the Ottomans for over a century, and there are a fair number of loanwords dating from this time.
– Matt
Dec 16 at 17:28
1
@Matt In fact, I had expected more and more interesting loanwords. Almost all loans seem to refer to Islam, Tukish bureaucracy, and some food items. Nothing touching the core vocabulary.
– jknappen
yesterday