A quick question about logs
$begingroup$
$$ln(e^x)=x$$
Is this right?
If yes, then please tell me how.
I know
$e^{ln x}$ $=x$.
calculus logarithms
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
$$ln(e^x)=x$$
Is this right?
If yes, then please tell me how.
I know
$e^{ln x}$ $=x$.
calculus logarithms
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
$endgroup$
– Matti P.
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
$endgroup$
– maxmilgram
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
$endgroup$
– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
$endgroup$
– Dan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
$endgroup$
– Kemono Chen
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
$$ln(e^x)=x$$
Is this right?
If yes, then please tell me how.
I know
$e^{ln x}$ $=x$.
calculus logarithms
$endgroup$
$$ln(e^x)=x$$
Is this right?
If yes, then please tell me how.
I know
$e^{ln x}$ $=x$.
calculus logarithms
calculus logarithms
edited 2 days ago
psmears
70949
70949
asked 2 days ago
AashishAashish
888
888
6
$begingroup$
It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
$endgroup$
– Matti P.
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
$endgroup$
– maxmilgram
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
$endgroup$
– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
$endgroup$
– Dan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
$endgroup$
– Kemono Chen
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
6
$begingroup$
It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
$endgroup$
– Matti P.
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
$endgroup$
– maxmilgram
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
$endgroup$
– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
$endgroup$
– Dan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
$endgroup$
– Kemono Chen
2 days ago
6
6
$begingroup$
It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
$endgroup$
– Matti P.
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
$endgroup$
– Matti P.
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
$endgroup$
– maxmilgram
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
$endgroup$
– maxmilgram
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
$endgroup$
– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
$endgroup$
– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
$endgroup$
– Dan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
$endgroup$
– Dan
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
$endgroup$
– Kemono Chen
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
$endgroup$
– Kemono Chen
2 days ago
|
show 3 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Well:
$$ln(e^{ln(x)})=ln(x)ln(e)=ln(x)$$
By the logarithmic power rule. What you seek comes from this.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f: mathbb R to (0, infty)$ be defined by $f(x)=e^x$. Then $f$ is bijective, hence $f^{-1}: (0, infty) to mathbb R$ exists.
By definition(!): $ ln x :=f^{-1}(x)$ for $x>0.$
Hence $e^{ln x}=f(f^{-1}(x))=x$ for all $x>0$ and $ln(e^x)=f^{-1}(f(x))=x$ for all $x in mathbb R.$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, this is correct. It is because the logarithm function is defined in that manner. A logarithm is essentially asking the question To what power $x$ do I raise some number $a$ to get $b$?
In general, the statements $a^x=b$ and $log_ab=x$ are equivalent.
In this case, since the base of the logarithm is $e$, you can ask yourself the same question: To what power do I raise $e$ to get $e^x$? Clearly the answer is $x$.
I recommend you read up on logarithms if you are having difficulty in this basic concept: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With $x=ln(y)$, $$e^{ln(y)}=yimplies ln(e^{ln(y)})=ln(y)implies ln(e^x)=x.$$
There is no need to refer to inversion nor any other property than the given.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For real numbers, it's true. But
$ln e^{2pi i}=ln 1 = 0$
This is due to the fact that $f: x rightarrow e^x$ is injective for real $x$, but not for complex $x$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Well:
$$ln(e^{ln(x)})=ln(x)ln(e)=ln(x)$$
By the logarithmic power rule. What you seek comes from this.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well:
$$ln(e^{ln(x)})=ln(x)ln(e)=ln(x)$$
By the logarithmic power rule. What you seek comes from this.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Well:
$$ln(e^{ln(x)})=ln(x)ln(e)=ln(x)$$
By the logarithmic power rule. What you seek comes from this.
$endgroup$
Well:
$$ln(e^{ln(x)})=ln(x)ln(e)=ln(x)$$
By the logarithmic power rule. What you seek comes from this.
answered 2 days ago
Rhys HughesRhys Hughes
5,7691530
5,7691530
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Isn't the power rule a stronger property than what is to prove ?
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
$begingroup$
Perhaps. But it does it nicely and power rule is one of the first things learnt about logs.
$endgroup$
– Rhys Hughes
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f: mathbb R to (0, infty)$ be defined by $f(x)=e^x$. Then $f$ is bijective, hence $f^{-1}: (0, infty) to mathbb R$ exists.
By definition(!): $ ln x :=f^{-1}(x)$ for $x>0.$
Hence $e^{ln x}=f(f^{-1}(x))=x$ for all $x>0$ and $ln(e^x)=f^{-1}(f(x))=x$ for all $x in mathbb R.$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f: mathbb R to (0, infty)$ be defined by $f(x)=e^x$. Then $f$ is bijective, hence $f^{-1}: (0, infty) to mathbb R$ exists.
By definition(!): $ ln x :=f^{-1}(x)$ for $x>0.$
Hence $e^{ln x}=f(f^{-1}(x))=x$ for all $x>0$ and $ln(e^x)=f^{-1}(f(x))=x$ for all $x in mathbb R.$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f: mathbb R to (0, infty)$ be defined by $f(x)=e^x$. Then $f$ is bijective, hence $f^{-1}: (0, infty) to mathbb R$ exists.
By definition(!): $ ln x :=f^{-1}(x)$ for $x>0.$
Hence $e^{ln x}=f(f^{-1}(x))=x$ for all $x>0$ and $ln(e^x)=f^{-1}(f(x))=x$ for all $x in mathbb R.$
$endgroup$
Let $f: mathbb R to (0, infty)$ be defined by $f(x)=e^x$. Then $f$ is bijective, hence $f^{-1}: (0, infty) to mathbb R$ exists.
By definition(!): $ ln x :=f^{-1}(x)$ for $x>0.$
Hence $e^{ln x}=f(f^{-1}(x))=x$ for all $x>0$ and $ln(e^x)=f^{-1}(f(x))=x$ for all $x in mathbb R.$
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
FredFred
45.1k1847
45.1k1847
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, this is correct. It is because the logarithm function is defined in that manner. A logarithm is essentially asking the question To what power $x$ do I raise some number $a$ to get $b$?
In general, the statements $a^x=b$ and $log_ab=x$ are equivalent.
In this case, since the base of the logarithm is $e$, you can ask yourself the same question: To what power do I raise $e$ to get $e^x$? Clearly the answer is $x$.
I recommend you read up on logarithms if you are having difficulty in this basic concept: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, this is correct. It is because the logarithm function is defined in that manner. A logarithm is essentially asking the question To what power $x$ do I raise some number $a$ to get $b$?
In general, the statements $a^x=b$ and $log_ab=x$ are equivalent.
In this case, since the base of the logarithm is $e$, you can ask yourself the same question: To what power do I raise $e$ to get $e^x$? Clearly the answer is $x$.
I recommend you read up on logarithms if you are having difficulty in this basic concept: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, this is correct. It is because the logarithm function is defined in that manner. A logarithm is essentially asking the question To what power $x$ do I raise some number $a$ to get $b$?
In general, the statements $a^x=b$ and $log_ab=x$ are equivalent.
In this case, since the base of the logarithm is $e$, you can ask yourself the same question: To what power do I raise $e$ to get $e^x$? Clearly the answer is $x$.
I recommend you read up on logarithms if you are having difficulty in this basic concept: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
$endgroup$
Yes, this is correct. It is because the logarithm function is defined in that manner. A logarithm is essentially asking the question To what power $x$ do I raise some number $a$ to get $b$?
In general, the statements $a^x=b$ and $log_ab=x$ are equivalent.
In this case, since the base of the logarithm is $e$, you can ask yourself the same question: To what power do I raise $e$ to get $e^x$? Clearly the answer is $x$.
I recommend you read up on logarithms if you are having difficulty in this basic concept: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
answered 2 days ago
Naman KumarNaman Kumar
12010
12010
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With $x=ln(y)$, $$e^{ln(y)}=yimplies ln(e^{ln(y)})=ln(y)implies ln(e^x)=x.$$
There is no need to refer to inversion nor any other property than the given.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With $x=ln(y)$, $$e^{ln(y)}=yimplies ln(e^{ln(y)})=ln(y)implies ln(e^x)=x.$$
There is no need to refer to inversion nor any other property than the given.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With $x=ln(y)$, $$e^{ln(y)}=yimplies ln(e^{ln(y)})=ln(y)implies ln(e^x)=x.$$
There is no need to refer to inversion nor any other property than the given.
$endgroup$
With $x=ln(y)$, $$e^{ln(y)}=yimplies ln(e^{ln(y)})=ln(y)implies ln(e^x)=x.$$
There is no need to refer to inversion nor any other property than the given.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
Yves DaoustYves Daoust
125k671223
125k671223
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Haven't you used the following property without stating it? That is: for all x there exists y such x = ln(y); i.e. the logarithm function is onto the set in question (we can probably assume that set is the reals, although it hasn't been stated).
$endgroup$
– Don Hatch
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch indeed, but do recall a function is invertible iff it is bijective. In order to talk of the logarithm as an inverse we should probably have valided the exponential is bijective on the reals. Over the complex numbers we lose injectivity, but preserve surjectivity, so we can use the concept of covering spaces or the like to define the "inverse" of a non-injective function.
$endgroup$
– Brevan Ellefsen
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DonHatch: no, I cheated by saying "take $x=ln y$", so the proof is valid for all such pairs (if any), but only those. Anyway, if we add that the range of the logarithm is $mathbb R$, the proof holds for all real $x$. The range condition is sufficient, invertibility is not required.
$endgroup$
– Yves Daoust
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For real numbers, it's true. But
$ln e^{2pi i}=ln 1 = 0$
This is due to the fact that $f: x rightarrow e^x$ is injective for real $x$, but not for complex $x$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For real numbers, it's true. But
$ln e^{2pi i}=ln 1 = 0$
This is due to the fact that $f: x rightarrow e^x$ is injective for real $x$, but not for complex $x$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For real numbers, it's true. But
$ln e^{2pi i}=ln 1 = 0$
This is due to the fact that $f: x rightarrow e^x$ is injective for real $x$, but not for complex $x$.
$endgroup$
For real numbers, it's true. But
$ln e^{2pi i}=ln 1 = 0$
This is due to the fact that $f: x rightarrow e^x$ is injective for real $x$, but not for complex $x$.
answered 2 days ago
AcccumulationAcccumulation
6,9142618
6,9142618
add a comment |
add a comment |
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6
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It's true, and the simple explanation is that ln and $e^x$ are each other's inverse functions. And there's no range problem because $e^x > 0$. Only in calculating the latter ($e^{ln{x}}$) you have to take $x>0$.
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– Matti P.
2 days ago
3
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Let's say $ln(e^x)=y$. Then $e^{ln(e^x)}=e^x=e^y$. Here I used your second line. Since the exponential function is injective it follows that $x=y$.
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– maxmilgram
2 days ago
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The history is worth considering: Natural log predated Euler's $e^x$
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– TurlocTheRed
2 days ago
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Are you assuming that $x$ is a real number?
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– Dan
2 days ago
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It is true iff $Im xin(-pi,pi]$. Assuming the branch of $ln$ is principal.
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– Kemono Chen
2 days ago