What is the scope of the quantifier “some”?
0
I am writing a term paper in English and am not sure which of the two sentences below is correct:
- some apples and pears
- some apples and some pears
What I mean to say is that there are some apples and that there also some pears. 1. seems (to me, a non-native speaker) more correct than 2. and 2. gives me the feeling that the second "some" is redundant. Do you have any suggestions?
syntax quantifiers
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
add a comment |
0
I am writing a term paper in English and am not sure which of the two sentences below is correct:
- some apples and pears
- some apples and some pears
What I mean to say is that there are some apples and that there also some pears. 1. seems (to me, a non-native speaker) more correct than 2. and 2. gives me the feeling that the second "some" is redundant. Do you have any suggestions?
syntax quantifiers
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
2
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago
add a comment |
0
0
0
I am writing a term paper in English and am not sure which of the two sentences below is correct:
- some apples and pears
- some apples and some pears
What I mean to say is that there are some apples and that there also some pears. 1. seems (to me, a non-native speaker) more correct than 2. and 2. gives me the feeling that the second "some" is redundant. Do you have any suggestions?
syntax quantifiers
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
I am writing a term paper in English and am not sure which of the two sentences below is correct:
- some apples and pears
- some apples and some pears
What I mean to say is that there are some apples and that there also some pears. 1. seems (to me, a non-native speaker) more correct than 2. and 2. gives me the feeling that the second "some" is redundant. Do you have any suggestions?
syntax quantifiers
syntax quantifiers
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
asked 6 hours ago
eslukaseslukas
14114
14114
2
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago
add a comment |
2
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago
2
2
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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The first is what I have used and seen in this situation. I would agree that the second "some" in the second case is superfluous to the meaning.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
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Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
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The first is what I have used and seen in this situation. I would agree that the second "some" in the second case is superfluous to the meaning.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
0
The first is what I have used and seen in this situation. I would agree that the second "some" in the second case is superfluous to the meaning.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
0
0
0
The first is what I have used and seen in this situation. I would agree that the second "some" in the second case is superfluous to the meaning.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The first is what I have used and seen in this situation. I would agree that the second "some" in the second case is superfluous to the meaning.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
answered 6 hours ago
Aidan ArthurAidan Arthur
1
1
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Aidan Arthur is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
The second some is not redundant if you want to make it clear that you have two or more apples and two or more pears. Otherwise, some apples and pears could refer to a single apple or a single pear among a larger number of fruit.
– Jason Bassford
6 hours ago
1
1
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
@Jason: That's nuts. The plural apples never refers to a single apple, and the same goes for pears. Some is redundant when repeated for sure, and perhaps even in a single instance. Saying "apples and pears" gets the idea across, and only if you need a limiter would you say "some apples and pears."
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
1
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
@Jason: I think you're confused about the usage of some here. When the dictionary says it can mean one, that is in the context of a singular noun, e.g., "Some idiot rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." In the context of a plural noun it means "more than one": "Some idiots rang my doorbell at 3:00 a.m." It simply cannot mean one in the latter sentence.
– Robusto
5 hours ago
1
1
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
@Jason: Now you're indulging in sophistry. Chicken in your chicken and waffles usage is a mass noun, not a count noun. You might just as easily have said some water. Also, I used some idiot deliberately to show your confusion about number. Some pears is the same grammatical construct as some idiot.
– Robusto
4 hours ago
1
1
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
@JasonBassford, to develop Robusto's point further: it is not just just that chicken is a mass term, but that the whole phrase chicken and waffles functions as a mass term. 'I would like to eat some chicken and waffles' means 'I would like to eat some unspecified quantity of the dish called "chicken and waffles"' and that is what makes it compatible with wanting to have only one waffle on one's plate. That cannot be transposed to the 'apples and pears' case.
– jsw29
3 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
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2
2. Is less ambiguous, but whether that ambiguity is of concern or not is dependent on context and consequences. 1. would likely be interpreted the way you intended in most reasonable contexts.
– Jim
6 hours ago
Apples, some apples, pears, some pears...they're all indefinite amounts (greater than one), but sometimes some means at least a small amount (esp. when stressed, as in 'apples and some pears'). See #5 under determiner: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/some.
– KannE
4 hours ago