How can I increase deck board gap without removing the boards?












1















My friends just bought a new house that has a deck that has gone mossy/moldy. The sellers pressure washed the deck and replaced a few soft boards, but the real problem is that there isn’t enough gap between boards for good drainage



I’ve suggested lifting the deck boards and regapping them but with all of the other repairs to be made, my friend was considering running a circular saw down each gap and taking a little bit of wood off each board



Is there a shortcut way to do this? I would think that a circular saw would leave a corner that’s more likely to split and splinter as it’s no longer rounded over, but a router would be a royal pain to keep straight the whole length of each board



I don’t even know if it’s nailed or screwed down, as it was buried in snow when I was last over there. (I suspect it’d be easier to lift a nailed down deck than a screwed down one)










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

    – batsplatsterson
    10 hours ago








  • 2





    @batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

    – UnhandledExcepSean
    9 hours ago


















1















My friends just bought a new house that has a deck that has gone mossy/moldy. The sellers pressure washed the deck and replaced a few soft boards, but the real problem is that there isn’t enough gap between boards for good drainage



I’ve suggested lifting the deck boards and regapping them but with all of the other repairs to be made, my friend was considering running a circular saw down each gap and taking a little bit of wood off each board



Is there a shortcut way to do this? I would think that a circular saw would leave a corner that’s more likely to split and splinter as it’s no longer rounded over, but a router would be a royal pain to keep straight the whole length of each board



I don’t even know if it’s nailed or screwed down, as it was buried in snow when I was last over there. (I suspect it’d be easier to lift a nailed down deck than a screwed down one)










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

    – batsplatsterson
    10 hours ago








  • 2





    @batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

    – UnhandledExcepSean
    9 hours ago
















1












1








1








My friends just bought a new house that has a deck that has gone mossy/moldy. The sellers pressure washed the deck and replaced a few soft boards, but the real problem is that there isn’t enough gap between boards for good drainage



I’ve suggested lifting the deck boards and regapping them but with all of the other repairs to be made, my friend was considering running a circular saw down each gap and taking a little bit of wood off each board



Is there a shortcut way to do this? I would think that a circular saw would leave a corner that’s more likely to split and splinter as it’s no longer rounded over, but a router would be a royal pain to keep straight the whole length of each board



I don’t even know if it’s nailed or screwed down, as it was buried in snow when I was last over there. (I suspect it’d be easier to lift a nailed down deck than a screwed down one)










share|improve this question
















My friends just bought a new house that has a deck that has gone mossy/moldy. The sellers pressure washed the deck and replaced a few soft boards, but the real problem is that there isn’t enough gap between boards for good drainage



I’ve suggested lifting the deck boards and regapping them but with all of the other repairs to be made, my friend was considering running a circular saw down each gap and taking a little bit of wood off each board



Is there a shortcut way to do this? I would think that a circular saw would leave a corner that’s more likely to split and splinter as it’s no longer rounded over, but a router would be a royal pain to keep straight the whole length of each board



I don’t even know if it’s nailed or screwed down, as it was buried in snow when I was last over there. (I suspect it’d be easier to lift a nailed down deck than a screwed down one)







deck drainage






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 13 hours ago









isherwood

47.7k456122




47.7k456122










asked 14 hours ago









JoeJoe

6,62411935




6,62411935








  • 2





    I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

    – batsplatsterson
    10 hours ago








  • 2





    @batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

    – UnhandledExcepSean
    9 hours ago
















  • 2





    I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

    – batsplatsterson
    10 hours ago








  • 2





    @batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

    – UnhandledExcepSean
    9 hours ago










2




2





I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

– batsplatsterson
10 hours ago







I am skeptical that there's not enough gap between the planks to drain. Pressure treated is sold so wet that even if you install it with zero gap there's a pretty nice gap when it dries. So it's very hard to install with too little gap. If on the other hand it was installed with the cupped side up that's going to be harder to correct.

– batsplatsterson
10 hours ago






2




2





@batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

– UnhandledExcepSean
9 hours ago







@batsplatsterson Yep, I made the mistake of gapping my deck with 16 penny nails and now have some quite large gaps after the deck dried for a season or two :(

– UnhandledExcepSean
9 hours ago












2 Answers
2






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oldest

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4














You could install three identical blades in your circular saw with the teeth staggered, then run that down the channel. The saw should follow the gap fairly well, but you'll want to brace the saw with a firm grip to prevent wobble and keep things looking very straight. This should get you about 5/16". Be sure to set the depth properly to avoid damaging your joists, and be aware of the increased tendency for kickback.



Find a roundover router bit with a small guide that just fits the gap, and run that down as well. If you're lucky you can just run once in each direction (this reduces fibrous texture with softwood). If the bit guide is too narrow you'll need to go both directions while in contact with each board.



I'd actually borrow or rent a random-orbit (plate style) floor sander and get things level beforehand. If the boards aren't perfectly flat with respect to each other your bullnose will vary quite a bit.






share|improve this answer


























  • One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago








  • 1





    Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago











  • and give a clean straight cut.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago











  • Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago











  • I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago



















0














If it's moldy, lifting deck boards can usually be done with a swift kick... A crowbar and a 5lb sledge will pull it right up, if not.



If you decide to pull them up and reuse them, pressure wash it first to see as many fasteners as possible and pull 'em out. If it's nailed down I either wouldn't pull them or I wouldn't reuse them. If they used nails the boards are probably 20yo and done for anyway. Screws you can pull or they'll snap off anyway, but with rusty nails they're always be some crap left sticking out somewhere.



I'd like to see a picture first (and know how lose everything is), but that's only to say if you should bother to pull the boards, or just wash it every year. Give a good pound with the sledge on a few boards to check the integrity, and especially the stairs. Check all fasteners for obscene amounts of rust, such as the bolts for the railings, metal joist hangers and stair hangers. Replace as necessary. Everyone inherits a slippery deck, but those are the other things you need to check, and keep an eye on from now on.



I would not be cutting them in place; that's just going to look like crap, and splinter. But if I was going to go through the work of pulling the wood boards, I'd probably be replacing them with composite decking that you install with hidden claw spacers (I haven't had a single "Tiger Claw" fail yet, 10 years in).






share|improve this answer























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    2 Answers
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    4














    You could install three identical blades in your circular saw with the teeth staggered, then run that down the channel. The saw should follow the gap fairly well, but you'll want to brace the saw with a firm grip to prevent wobble and keep things looking very straight. This should get you about 5/16". Be sure to set the depth properly to avoid damaging your joists, and be aware of the increased tendency for kickback.



    Find a roundover router bit with a small guide that just fits the gap, and run that down as well. If you're lucky you can just run once in each direction (this reduces fibrous texture with softwood). If the bit guide is too narrow you'll need to go both directions while in contact with each board.



    I'd actually borrow or rent a random-orbit (plate style) floor sander and get things level beforehand. If the boards aren't perfectly flat with respect to each other your bullnose will vary quite a bit.






    share|improve this answer


























    • One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago








    • 1





      Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago











    • and give a clean straight cut.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago
















    4














    You could install three identical blades in your circular saw with the teeth staggered, then run that down the channel. The saw should follow the gap fairly well, but you'll want to brace the saw with a firm grip to prevent wobble and keep things looking very straight. This should get you about 5/16". Be sure to set the depth properly to avoid damaging your joists, and be aware of the increased tendency for kickback.



    Find a roundover router bit with a small guide that just fits the gap, and run that down as well. If you're lucky you can just run once in each direction (this reduces fibrous texture with softwood). If the bit guide is too narrow you'll need to go both directions while in contact with each board.



    I'd actually borrow or rent a random-orbit (plate style) floor sander and get things level beforehand. If the boards aren't perfectly flat with respect to each other your bullnose will vary quite a bit.






    share|improve this answer


























    • One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago








    • 1





      Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago











    • and give a clean straight cut.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago














    4












    4








    4







    You could install three identical blades in your circular saw with the teeth staggered, then run that down the channel. The saw should follow the gap fairly well, but you'll want to brace the saw with a firm grip to prevent wobble and keep things looking very straight. This should get you about 5/16". Be sure to set the depth properly to avoid damaging your joists, and be aware of the increased tendency for kickback.



    Find a roundover router bit with a small guide that just fits the gap, and run that down as well. If you're lucky you can just run once in each direction (this reduces fibrous texture with softwood). If the bit guide is too narrow you'll need to go both directions while in contact with each board.



    I'd actually borrow or rent a random-orbit (plate style) floor sander and get things level beforehand. If the boards aren't perfectly flat with respect to each other your bullnose will vary quite a bit.






    share|improve this answer















    You could install three identical blades in your circular saw with the teeth staggered, then run that down the channel. The saw should follow the gap fairly well, but you'll want to brace the saw with a firm grip to prevent wobble and keep things looking very straight. This should get you about 5/16". Be sure to set the depth properly to avoid damaging your joists, and be aware of the increased tendency for kickback.



    Find a roundover router bit with a small guide that just fits the gap, and run that down as well. If you're lucky you can just run once in each direction (this reduces fibrous texture with softwood). If the bit guide is too narrow you'll need to go both directions while in contact with each board.



    I'd actually borrow or rent a random-orbit (plate style) floor sander and get things level beforehand. If the boards aren't perfectly flat with respect to each other your bullnose will vary quite a bit.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 12 hours ago

























    answered 13 hours ago









    isherwoodisherwood

    47.7k456122




    47.7k456122













    • One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago








    • 1





      Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago











    • and give a clean straight cut.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago



















    • One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago








    • 1





      Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago











    • and give a clean straight cut.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

      – Jeff Cates
      12 hours ago











    • I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

      – isherwood
      12 hours ago

















    One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago







    One thing with decks, the boards are cupped for reason. The cupped side goes up so water will shed off and into the gap between boards. @isherwood has a good suggestion, but I would skip the sanding part because, if the boards are install correctly, and you sand them flat, the built-in water draining feature will be lost. You could also use a spare board and screw it down the length of the board at the distance you want the edge to be cut...a saw guide board only partially screwed in so it is easy to remove. Then you have a straight edge and when you cut, the saw will go fairly straight and gi

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago






    1




    1





    Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago





    Deck boards aren't deliberately cupped. The natural grain pattern can cause them to do so, but warpage due to sunlight and retained moisture underneath has a greater effect. I don't consider that a concern.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago













    and give a clean straight cut.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago





    and give a clean straight cut.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago













    Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago





    Around here, every store I have been to, has deliberatly cupped deck boards. Generally they are pressure treated boards for exterior decks. Lowes, Home Depot, Lumbermans, Ace Hardware, even the local places. I asked about 20 years ago why they were that way. I was told by a lumber mill in Spokane, WA that they cup them when they process the wood, for drainage reasons.

    – Jeff Cates
    12 hours ago













    I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago





    I think you're hearing repeated false wisdom. Look at a brand new bunk of decking and you'll probably see that they're perfectly flat. Synthetic decking, maybe.

    – isherwood
    12 hours ago













    0














    If it's moldy, lifting deck boards can usually be done with a swift kick... A crowbar and a 5lb sledge will pull it right up, if not.



    If you decide to pull them up and reuse them, pressure wash it first to see as many fasteners as possible and pull 'em out. If it's nailed down I either wouldn't pull them or I wouldn't reuse them. If they used nails the boards are probably 20yo and done for anyway. Screws you can pull or they'll snap off anyway, but with rusty nails they're always be some crap left sticking out somewhere.



    I'd like to see a picture first (and know how lose everything is), but that's only to say if you should bother to pull the boards, or just wash it every year. Give a good pound with the sledge on a few boards to check the integrity, and especially the stairs. Check all fasteners for obscene amounts of rust, such as the bolts for the railings, metal joist hangers and stair hangers. Replace as necessary. Everyone inherits a slippery deck, but those are the other things you need to check, and keep an eye on from now on.



    I would not be cutting them in place; that's just going to look like crap, and splinter. But if I was going to go through the work of pulling the wood boards, I'd probably be replacing them with composite decking that you install with hidden claw spacers (I haven't had a single "Tiger Claw" fail yet, 10 years in).






    share|improve this answer




























      0














      If it's moldy, lifting deck boards can usually be done with a swift kick... A crowbar and a 5lb sledge will pull it right up, if not.



      If you decide to pull them up and reuse them, pressure wash it first to see as many fasteners as possible and pull 'em out. If it's nailed down I either wouldn't pull them or I wouldn't reuse them. If they used nails the boards are probably 20yo and done for anyway. Screws you can pull or they'll snap off anyway, but with rusty nails they're always be some crap left sticking out somewhere.



      I'd like to see a picture first (and know how lose everything is), but that's only to say if you should bother to pull the boards, or just wash it every year. Give a good pound with the sledge on a few boards to check the integrity, and especially the stairs. Check all fasteners for obscene amounts of rust, such as the bolts for the railings, metal joist hangers and stair hangers. Replace as necessary. Everyone inherits a slippery deck, but those are the other things you need to check, and keep an eye on from now on.



      I would not be cutting them in place; that's just going to look like crap, and splinter. But if I was going to go through the work of pulling the wood boards, I'd probably be replacing them with composite decking that you install with hidden claw spacers (I haven't had a single "Tiger Claw" fail yet, 10 years in).






      share|improve this answer


























        0












        0








        0







        If it's moldy, lifting deck boards can usually be done with a swift kick... A crowbar and a 5lb sledge will pull it right up, if not.



        If you decide to pull them up and reuse them, pressure wash it first to see as many fasteners as possible and pull 'em out. If it's nailed down I either wouldn't pull them or I wouldn't reuse them. If they used nails the boards are probably 20yo and done for anyway. Screws you can pull or they'll snap off anyway, but with rusty nails they're always be some crap left sticking out somewhere.



        I'd like to see a picture first (and know how lose everything is), but that's only to say if you should bother to pull the boards, or just wash it every year. Give a good pound with the sledge on a few boards to check the integrity, and especially the stairs. Check all fasteners for obscene amounts of rust, such as the bolts for the railings, metal joist hangers and stair hangers. Replace as necessary. Everyone inherits a slippery deck, but those are the other things you need to check, and keep an eye on from now on.



        I would not be cutting them in place; that's just going to look like crap, and splinter. But if I was going to go through the work of pulling the wood boards, I'd probably be replacing them with composite decking that you install with hidden claw spacers (I haven't had a single "Tiger Claw" fail yet, 10 years in).






        share|improve this answer













        If it's moldy, lifting deck boards can usually be done with a swift kick... A crowbar and a 5lb sledge will pull it right up, if not.



        If you decide to pull them up and reuse them, pressure wash it first to see as many fasteners as possible and pull 'em out. If it's nailed down I either wouldn't pull them or I wouldn't reuse them. If they used nails the boards are probably 20yo and done for anyway. Screws you can pull or they'll snap off anyway, but with rusty nails they're always be some crap left sticking out somewhere.



        I'd like to see a picture first (and know how lose everything is), but that's only to say if you should bother to pull the boards, or just wash it every year. Give a good pound with the sledge on a few boards to check the integrity, and especially the stairs. Check all fasteners for obscene amounts of rust, such as the bolts for the railings, metal joist hangers and stair hangers. Replace as necessary. Everyone inherits a slippery deck, but those are the other things you need to check, and keep an eye on from now on.



        I would not be cutting them in place; that's just going to look like crap, and splinter. But if I was going to go through the work of pulling the wood boards, I'd probably be replacing them with composite decking that you install with hidden claw spacers (I haven't had a single "Tiger Claw" fail yet, 10 years in).







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        answered 9 hours ago









        MazuraMazura

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