What does “south of due west” mean?












5















I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?










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  • Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

    – Solar Mike
    17 hours ago











  • Can you post more context?

    – Acccumulation
    14 hours ago











  • Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

    – snailboat
    6 hours ago
















5















I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Fafa is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

    – Solar Mike
    17 hours ago











  • Can you post more context?

    – Acccumulation
    14 hours ago











  • Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

    – snailboat
    6 hours ago














5












5








5








I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Fafa is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?







meaning phrase-meaning technical






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edited 7 hours ago









SamBC

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asked 17 hours ago









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  • Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

    – Solar Mike
    17 hours ago











  • Can you post more context?

    – Acccumulation
    14 hours ago











  • Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

    – snailboat
    6 hours ago



















  • Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

    – Solar Mike
    17 hours ago











  • Can you post more context?

    – Acccumulation
    14 hours ago











  • Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

    – snailboat
    6 hours ago

















Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

– Solar Mike
17 hours ago





Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...

– Solar Mike
17 hours ago













Can you post more context?

– Acccumulation
14 hours ago





Can you post more context?

– Acccumulation
14 hours ago













Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

– snailboat
6 hours ago





Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?

– snailboat
6 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















17














Look at a compass rose.



enter image description here



Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.





1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.






share|improve this answer


























  • There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

    – Solar Mike
    16 hours ago











  • @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

    – SamBC
    16 hours ago






  • 2





    Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

    – SamBC
    16 hours ago






  • 1





    You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

    – Solar Mike
    16 hours ago






  • 2





    I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

    – Chris H
    13 hours ago





















6














Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.






share|improve this answer































    2














    Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.



    So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.



    It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.



    The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.






    share|improve this answer































      1














      A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...






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        4 Answers
        4






        active

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        17














        Look at a compass rose.



        enter image description here



        Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.





        1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.






        share|improve this answer


























        • There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago











        • @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 1





          You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

          – Chris H
          13 hours ago


















        17














        Look at a compass rose.



        enter image description here



        Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.





        1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.






        share|improve this answer


























        • There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago











        • @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 1





          You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

          – Chris H
          13 hours ago
















        17












        17








        17







        Look at a compass rose.



        enter image description here



        Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.





        1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.






        share|improve this answer















        Look at a compass rose.



        enter image description here



        Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.





        1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 7 hours ago

























        answered 17 hours ago









        SamBCSamBC

        5,745426




        5,745426













        • There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago











        • @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 1





          You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

          – Chris H
          13 hours ago





















        • There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago











        • @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

          – SamBC
          16 hours ago






        • 1





          You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

          – Solar Mike
          16 hours ago






        • 2





          I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

          – Chris H
          13 hours ago



















        There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

        – Solar Mike
        16 hours ago





        There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...

        – Solar Mike
        16 hours ago













        @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

        – SamBC
        16 hours ago





        @SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.

        – SamBC
        16 hours ago




        2




        2





        Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

        – SamBC
        16 hours ago





        Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.

        – SamBC
        16 hours ago




        1




        1





        You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

        – Solar Mike
        16 hours ago





        You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…

        – Solar Mike
        16 hours ago




        2




        2





        I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

        – Chris H
        13 hours ago







        I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.

        – Chris H
        13 hours ago















        6














        Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.






        share|improve this answer




























          6














          Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.






          share|improve this answer


























            6












            6








            6







            Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.






            share|improve this answer













            Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 14 hours ago









            KevinKevin

            3,8131219




            3,8131219























                2














                Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.



                So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.



                It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.



                The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.






                share|improve this answer




























                  2














                  Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.



                  So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.



                  It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.



                  The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    2












                    2








                    2







                    Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.



                    So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.



                    It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.



                    The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.



                    So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.



                    It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.



                    The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.







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                    answered 7 hours ago









                    Todd WilcoxTodd Wilcox

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                        A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...






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                          A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...






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                            1












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                            A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...






                            share|improve this answer













                            A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...







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                            answered 12 hours ago









                            Hagen von EitzenHagen von Eitzen

                            1446




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