What is the literal meaning (and the origin) of “v”?
“And that hashtag is wrong. It should always be v not vs. The ‘v’ never stood for versus, it stood for ‘vel’, meaning ‘or’. As in, ‘The gladiator or the lion is coming out of that arena alive.’” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362086216482817
“And ‘versus’ wasn’t even the way to say ‘against’, in that sense. That probably would’ve been ‘contra’. So it’s ‘v’ not ‘vs’ or ‘versus’. And yes, I still think Root should be at 3 with everyone else at 8.” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362736799219715
Is there any truth in this (particularly in the "vel" bit)?
The few dictionaries that I consulted maintain "versus", but I'm still curious... (The Latin "vel" does or can mean "or", so there's that.)
abbreviations latin
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
add a comment |
“And that hashtag is wrong. It should always be v not vs. The ‘v’ never stood for versus, it stood for ‘vel’, meaning ‘or’. As in, ‘The gladiator or the lion is coming out of that arena alive.’” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362086216482817
“And ‘versus’ wasn’t even the way to say ‘against’, in that sense. That probably would’ve been ‘contra’. So it’s ‘v’ not ‘vs’ or ‘versus’. And yes, I still think Root should be at 3 with everyone else at 8.” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362736799219715
Is there any truth in this (particularly in the "vel" bit)?
The few dictionaries that I consulted maintain "versus", but I'm still curious... (The Latin "vel" does or can mean "or", so there's that.)
abbreviations latin
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
4
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
1
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
1
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
“And that hashtag is wrong. It should always be v not vs. The ‘v’ never stood for versus, it stood for ‘vel’, meaning ‘or’. As in, ‘The gladiator or the lion is coming out of that arena alive.’” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362086216482817
“And ‘versus’ wasn’t even the way to say ‘against’, in that sense. That probably would’ve been ‘contra’. So it’s ‘v’ not ‘vs’ or ‘versus’. And yes, I still think Root should be at 3 with everyone else at 8.” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362736799219715
Is there any truth in this (particularly in the "vel" bit)?
The few dictionaries that I consulted maintain "versus", but I'm still curious... (The Latin "vel" does or can mean "or", so there's that.)
abbreviations latin
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
“And that hashtag is wrong. It should always be v not vs. The ‘v’ never stood for versus, it stood for ‘vel’, meaning ‘or’. As in, ‘The gladiator or the lion is coming out of that arena alive.’” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362086216482817
“And ‘versus’ wasn’t even the way to say ‘against’, in that sense. That probably would’ve been ‘contra’. So it’s ‘v’ not ‘vs’ or ‘versus’. And yes, I still think Root should be at 3 with everyone else at 8.” #WIvsENG
https://twitter.com/ucsoldboyscc/status/1094362736799219715
Is there any truth in this (particularly in the "vel" bit)?
The few dictionaries that I consulted maintain "versus", but I'm still curious... (The Latin "vel" does or can mean "or", so there's that.)
abbreviations latin
abbreviations latin
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
edited 9 hours ago
Keep these mind
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
asked 9 hours ago
Keep these mindKeep these mind
1,09811422
1,09811422
4
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
1
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
1
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
4
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
1
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
1
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
4
4
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
1
1
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
1
1
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The etymology of "versus" is pretty simple. It came from Latin and it was originally used in English in the law sense (as it's still used today: Roe v. Wade). Later on it started to be used more flexibly.
There are several abbreviations that have been used for versus: v., vs., and ver. Both vs. and v. (with and without the period) are mentioned in Oxford Dictionaries as currently acceptable abbreviations.
The Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first citation for versus:
Also the jugement by twene Broghton and the Glasier and by twene John Husset versus John Notte and specially of Sr John Notte of his fyn.
John Shillingford's letters and papers (1447–8)
(The MED has the same quote as its first citation for versus.)
It's pretty easy, at least for me, to see the similarities between the legal sense and the general (or sports) sense.
I also looked up contra and vel in the OED. Contra has never been used in English in quite this way (i.e. placed between two people or things to indicate opposition). Vel doesn't even have an entry (although it is part of the expression vel non "or not"), meaning that it was never really used in English.
Lastly, according to the answers given to the Latin SE questions “Us versus them” - opposite of “noster”? and What's the difference between vel, aut, -ve, et cetera? it would be aut (not vel) that would be used in Latin between two opposing parties.
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
add a comment |
There is no truth in the "vel" bit. "Vel" isn't even the way to say "or" in that sense. The desired meaning is an exclusive "or", and that in Latin was "aut".
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The etymology of "versus" is pretty simple. It came from Latin and it was originally used in English in the law sense (as it's still used today: Roe v. Wade). Later on it started to be used more flexibly.
There are several abbreviations that have been used for versus: v., vs., and ver. Both vs. and v. (with and without the period) are mentioned in Oxford Dictionaries as currently acceptable abbreviations.
The Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first citation for versus:
Also the jugement by twene Broghton and the Glasier and by twene John Husset versus John Notte and specially of Sr John Notte of his fyn.
John Shillingford's letters and papers (1447–8)
(The MED has the same quote as its first citation for versus.)
It's pretty easy, at least for me, to see the similarities between the legal sense and the general (or sports) sense.
I also looked up contra and vel in the OED. Contra has never been used in English in quite this way (i.e. placed between two people or things to indicate opposition). Vel doesn't even have an entry (although it is part of the expression vel non "or not"), meaning that it was never really used in English.
Lastly, according to the answers given to the Latin SE questions “Us versus them” - opposite of “noster”? and What's the difference between vel, aut, -ve, et cetera? it would be aut (not vel) that would be used in Latin between two opposing parties.
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
add a comment |
The etymology of "versus" is pretty simple. It came from Latin and it was originally used in English in the law sense (as it's still used today: Roe v. Wade). Later on it started to be used more flexibly.
There are several abbreviations that have been used for versus: v., vs., and ver. Both vs. and v. (with and without the period) are mentioned in Oxford Dictionaries as currently acceptable abbreviations.
The Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first citation for versus:
Also the jugement by twene Broghton and the Glasier and by twene John Husset versus John Notte and specially of Sr John Notte of his fyn.
John Shillingford's letters and papers (1447–8)
(The MED has the same quote as its first citation for versus.)
It's pretty easy, at least for me, to see the similarities between the legal sense and the general (or sports) sense.
I also looked up contra and vel in the OED. Contra has never been used in English in quite this way (i.e. placed between two people or things to indicate opposition). Vel doesn't even have an entry (although it is part of the expression vel non "or not"), meaning that it was never really used in English.
Lastly, according to the answers given to the Latin SE questions “Us versus them” - opposite of “noster”? and What's the difference between vel, aut, -ve, et cetera? it would be aut (not vel) that would be used in Latin between two opposing parties.
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
add a comment |
The etymology of "versus" is pretty simple. It came from Latin and it was originally used in English in the law sense (as it's still used today: Roe v. Wade). Later on it started to be used more flexibly.
There are several abbreviations that have been used for versus: v., vs., and ver. Both vs. and v. (with and without the period) are mentioned in Oxford Dictionaries as currently acceptable abbreviations.
The Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first citation for versus:
Also the jugement by twene Broghton and the Glasier and by twene John Husset versus John Notte and specially of Sr John Notte of his fyn.
John Shillingford's letters and papers (1447–8)
(The MED has the same quote as its first citation for versus.)
It's pretty easy, at least for me, to see the similarities between the legal sense and the general (or sports) sense.
I also looked up contra and vel in the OED. Contra has never been used in English in quite this way (i.e. placed between two people or things to indicate opposition). Vel doesn't even have an entry (although it is part of the expression vel non "or not"), meaning that it was never really used in English.
Lastly, according to the answers given to the Latin SE questions “Us versus them” - opposite of “noster”? and What's the difference between vel, aut, -ve, et cetera? it would be aut (not vel) that would be used in Latin between two opposing parties.
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
The etymology of "versus" is pretty simple. It came from Latin and it was originally used in English in the law sense (as it's still used today: Roe v. Wade). Later on it started to be used more flexibly.
There are several abbreviations that have been used for versus: v., vs., and ver. Both vs. and v. (with and without the period) are mentioned in Oxford Dictionaries as currently acceptable abbreviations.
The Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first citation for versus:
Also the jugement by twene Broghton and the Glasier and by twene John Husset versus John Notte and specially of Sr John Notte of his fyn.
John Shillingford's letters and papers (1447–8)
(The MED has the same quote as its first citation for versus.)
It's pretty easy, at least for me, to see the similarities between the legal sense and the general (or sports) sense.
I also looked up contra and vel in the OED. Contra has never been used in English in quite this way (i.e. placed between two people or things to indicate opposition). Vel doesn't even have an entry (although it is part of the expression vel non "or not"), meaning that it was never really used in English.
Lastly, according to the answers given to the Latin SE questions “Us versus them” - opposite of “noster”? and What's the difference between vel, aut, -ve, et cetera? it would be aut (not vel) that would be used in Latin between two opposing parties.
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
answered 8 hours ago
LaurelLaurel
32.7k663115
32.7k663115
add a comment |
add a comment |
There is no truth in the "vel" bit. "Vel" isn't even the way to say "or" in that sense. The desired meaning is an exclusive "or", and that in Latin was "aut".
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
There is no truth in the "vel" bit. "Vel" isn't even the way to say "or" in that sense. The desired meaning is an exclusive "or", and that in Latin was "aut".
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
There is no truth in the "vel" bit. "Vel" isn't even the way to say "or" in that sense. The desired meaning is an exclusive "or", and that in Latin was "aut".
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
There is no truth in the "vel" bit. "Vel" isn't even the way to say "or" in that sense. The desired meaning is an exclusive "or", and that in Latin was "aut".
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
answered 9 hours ago
Rosie FRosie F
67526
67526
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
In mathematical logic, the most common symbol for the "inclusive or" operator is usually ∨, (e.g. A ∨ B), which according to this source comes from the Latin 'vel' meaning either/or: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction. But you're right, the outcome of a competition is usually better viewed as an exclusive or, which is not usually represented as a single operator but as a chain of operations, e.g. A ∨ B & ￢(A & B) (i.e. inclusive or is fundamental but exclusive or is derived).
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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4
Let me get this right. Some dweeb on Twitter says 'v' in "Spurs v Chelsea" means "vel"? And you want to know if it's true? Are you serious?
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Yes. Quite serious. Also, it is actually some dweeb on Twitter quoting another dweeb (possibly not on Twitter).
– Keep these mind
9 hours ago
1
Can you spell out what the question is? With an example? Do you have a sentence with v or vel? The links are great but you need to make the question also self contained.
– Mitch
9 hours ago
Related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/5392/…
– TaliesinMerlin
8 hours ago
1
In mathematical logic, it is common to write A ∨ B, meaning either A or B is true, and this is indeed derived from the Latin vel. But crucially, this is always meant as an inclusive or, so either A or B or both A and B are true. This clearly doesn't apply to the case of a fight between two parties, only one of whom can win. i.e. your source is retrospectively interpreting an established A ∨ B mathematical notation to cover something in an unrelated linguistic domain.
– Michael MacAskill
4 hours ago