PTIJ: Aliyot for the deceased












9















Many people use the phrasing "may the Neshama have an Aliyah" at a shiva, shloshim, or yahrtzeit celebration. Which aliyah is better to give to the deceased? Shlishi, Shishi, or Maftir?



Also, when calling up the deceased for the Aliyah, does one change the formula to include an indication that they have passed?





This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










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  • 1





    They get Hagbah

    – Double AA
    11 hours ago











  • Why specifically those three aliyot?

    – Lo ani
    10 hours ago











  • When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

    – DanF
    9 hours ago











  • @DanF which previous question?

    – רבות מחשבות
    6 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

    – DanF
    6 hours ago
















9















Many people use the phrasing "may the Neshama have an Aliyah" at a shiva, shloshim, or yahrtzeit celebration. Which aliyah is better to give to the deceased? Shlishi, Shishi, or Maftir?



Also, when calling up the deceased for the Aliyah, does one change the formula to include an indication that they have passed?





This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










share|improve this question


















  • 1





    They get Hagbah

    – Double AA
    11 hours ago











  • Why specifically those three aliyot?

    – Lo ani
    10 hours ago











  • When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

    – DanF
    9 hours ago











  • @DanF which previous question?

    – רבות מחשבות
    6 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

    – DanF
    6 hours ago














9












9








9








Many people use the phrasing "may the Neshama have an Aliyah" at a shiva, shloshim, or yahrtzeit celebration. Which aliyah is better to give to the deceased? Shlishi, Shishi, or Maftir?



Also, when calling up the deceased for the Aliyah, does one change the formula to include an indication that they have passed?





This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










share|improve this question














Many people use the phrasing "may the Neshama have an Aliyah" at a shiva, shloshim, or yahrtzeit celebration. Which aliyah is better to give to the deceased? Shlishi, Shishi, or Maftir?



Also, when calling up the deceased for the Aliyah, does one change the formula to include an indication that they have passed?





This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.







purim-torah-in-jest






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 11 hours ago









רבות מחשבותרבות מחשבות

14.2k126120




14.2k126120








  • 1





    They get Hagbah

    – Double AA
    11 hours ago











  • Why specifically those three aliyot?

    – Lo ani
    10 hours ago











  • When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

    – DanF
    9 hours ago











  • @DanF which previous question?

    – רבות מחשבות
    6 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

    – DanF
    6 hours ago














  • 1





    They get Hagbah

    – Double AA
    11 hours ago











  • Why specifically those three aliyot?

    – Lo ani
    10 hours ago











  • When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

    – DanF
    9 hours ago











  • @DanF which previous question?

    – רבות מחשבות
    6 hours ago











  • @רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

    – DanF
    6 hours ago








1




1





They get Hagbah

– Double AA
11 hours ago





They get Hagbah

– Double AA
11 hours ago













Why specifically those three aliyot?

– Lo ani
10 hours ago





Why specifically those three aliyot?

– Lo ani
10 hours ago













When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

– DanF
9 hours ago





When you asked the previous question, I sensed that you would ask about this one.

– DanF
9 hours ago













@DanF which previous question?

– רבות מחשבות
6 hours ago





@DanF which previous question?

– רבות מחשבות
6 hours ago













@רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

– DanF
6 hours ago





@רבותמחשבות My mistake. There was another PTIJ question today about aliyot, but it was asked by rosends.

– DanF
6 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















12














You get maftir, thereby making them the niftar.






share|improve this answer
























  • Excellent use of language!

    – DanF
    9 hours ago



















1














The Mishnah (Gittin 59a) says:




כהן קורא ראשון ואחריו לוי ואחריו ישראל מפני דרכי שלום



A Kohen reads first, then a Levi, then a Yisrael, because of the ways of peace.




The Gemara (ibid. 59b) explains:




לא שנו אלא בסעודה אבל בבהכ"נ לא דאתו לאינצויי



They only taught [that one waits to accord respect] by a meal, but in a shul, we do not, for people will come to quarrel.




When coming to honor the deceased, everyone is obligated to pay their respects, and so there's no concern for quarrel; therefore, the deceased gets the first Aliyah. This is indicated by the Gemara's following question and answer:




והא רב הונא קרי בכהני בשבתות ויו"ט שאני רב הונא דאפילו רבי אמי ורבי אסי כהני חשיבי דא"י מיכף הוו כייפי ליה



Rav Huna read the Kohen aliyah on Shabbos and Yom Tov! Rav Huna is different, for even R' Ami and R' Asi, the most distinguished Kohanim in Eretz Yisrael, would bow to him.




Since everyone would pay respect to Rav Huna, he could take the Kohen aliyah, even without being a Kohen himself. So, too, since everyone pays respect to the deceased, he gets the Kohen aliyah.






share|improve this answer































    0














    There is an ancient custom of burying deceased Jews in Israel, dating all the way back to Yaakov Avinu. When people say this phrase, they are expressing their wish that the person will make aliya, so to speak, and be buried in Israel. If the person has already been buried, the bracha is still applicable as even the original occurrence of this practice involved exhuming the body and transporting it to Israel.






    share|improve this answer
























    • This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

      – DanF
      9 hours ago






    • 1





      @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

      – DonielF
      9 hours ago











    • @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

      – DanF
      9 hours ago



















    0














    He gets the Levi aliyah. And this is regardless of whether he's a Levi or not.



    The reason is that in a sense, during yahrtzeit, the spirit or "memory" of the dead person comes back down to Earth to be with the person who has Yahrtzeit. Yes, the dead person's neshama "gets an aliyah", but to get there, he needs a לוייה .



    As a matter of fact, even a Cohen should get the Levi Aliyah and not the Cohen aliyah. Because even Cohanim need a לוייה .






    share|improve this answer


























    • Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

      – DonielF
      9 hours ago













    • @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

      – DanF
      9 hours ago











    • The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

      – Daniel
      9 hours ago











    • I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

      – Nic
      9 hours ago






    • 1





      @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

      – Daniel
      8 hours ago





















    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    12














    You get maftir, thereby making them the niftar.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Excellent use of language!

      – DanF
      9 hours ago
















    12














    You get maftir, thereby making them the niftar.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Excellent use of language!

      – DanF
      9 hours ago














    12












    12








    12







    You get maftir, thereby making them the niftar.






    share|improve this answer













    You get maftir, thereby making them the niftar.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 10 hours ago









    MeirMeir

    95119




    95119













    • Excellent use of language!

      – DanF
      9 hours ago



















    • Excellent use of language!

      – DanF
      9 hours ago

















    Excellent use of language!

    – DanF
    9 hours ago





    Excellent use of language!

    – DanF
    9 hours ago











    1














    The Mishnah (Gittin 59a) says:




    כהן קורא ראשון ואחריו לוי ואחריו ישראל מפני דרכי שלום



    A Kohen reads first, then a Levi, then a Yisrael, because of the ways of peace.




    The Gemara (ibid. 59b) explains:




    לא שנו אלא בסעודה אבל בבהכ"נ לא דאתו לאינצויי



    They only taught [that one waits to accord respect] by a meal, but in a shul, we do not, for people will come to quarrel.




    When coming to honor the deceased, everyone is obligated to pay their respects, and so there's no concern for quarrel; therefore, the deceased gets the first Aliyah. This is indicated by the Gemara's following question and answer:




    והא רב הונא קרי בכהני בשבתות ויו"ט שאני רב הונא דאפילו רבי אמי ורבי אסי כהני חשיבי דא"י מיכף הוו כייפי ליה



    Rav Huna read the Kohen aliyah on Shabbos and Yom Tov! Rav Huna is different, for even R' Ami and R' Asi, the most distinguished Kohanim in Eretz Yisrael, would bow to him.




    Since everyone would pay respect to Rav Huna, he could take the Kohen aliyah, even without being a Kohen himself. So, too, since everyone pays respect to the deceased, he gets the Kohen aliyah.






    share|improve this answer




























      1














      The Mishnah (Gittin 59a) says:




      כהן קורא ראשון ואחריו לוי ואחריו ישראל מפני דרכי שלום



      A Kohen reads first, then a Levi, then a Yisrael, because of the ways of peace.




      The Gemara (ibid. 59b) explains:




      לא שנו אלא בסעודה אבל בבהכ"נ לא דאתו לאינצויי



      They only taught [that one waits to accord respect] by a meal, but in a shul, we do not, for people will come to quarrel.




      When coming to honor the deceased, everyone is obligated to pay their respects, and so there's no concern for quarrel; therefore, the deceased gets the first Aliyah. This is indicated by the Gemara's following question and answer:




      והא רב הונא קרי בכהני בשבתות ויו"ט שאני רב הונא דאפילו רבי אמי ורבי אסי כהני חשיבי דא"י מיכף הוו כייפי ליה



      Rav Huna read the Kohen aliyah on Shabbos and Yom Tov! Rav Huna is different, for even R' Ami and R' Asi, the most distinguished Kohanim in Eretz Yisrael, would bow to him.




      Since everyone would pay respect to Rav Huna, he could take the Kohen aliyah, even without being a Kohen himself. So, too, since everyone pays respect to the deceased, he gets the Kohen aliyah.






      share|improve this answer


























        1












        1








        1







        The Mishnah (Gittin 59a) says:




        כהן קורא ראשון ואחריו לוי ואחריו ישראל מפני דרכי שלום



        A Kohen reads first, then a Levi, then a Yisrael, because of the ways of peace.




        The Gemara (ibid. 59b) explains:




        לא שנו אלא בסעודה אבל בבהכ"נ לא דאתו לאינצויי



        They only taught [that one waits to accord respect] by a meal, but in a shul, we do not, for people will come to quarrel.




        When coming to honor the deceased, everyone is obligated to pay their respects, and so there's no concern for quarrel; therefore, the deceased gets the first Aliyah. This is indicated by the Gemara's following question and answer:




        והא רב הונא קרי בכהני בשבתות ויו"ט שאני רב הונא דאפילו רבי אמי ורבי אסי כהני חשיבי דא"י מיכף הוו כייפי ליה



        Rav Huna read the Kohen aliyah on Shabbos and Yom Tov! Rav Huna is different, for even R' Ami and R' Asi, the most distinguished Kohanim in Eretz Yisrael, would bow to him.




        Since everyone would pay respect to Rav Huna, he could take the Kohen aliyah, even without being a Kohen himself. So, too, since everyone pays respect to the deceased, he gets the Kohen aliyah.






        share|improve this answer













        The Mishnah (Gittin 59a) says:




        כהן קורא ראשון ואחריו לוי ואחריו ישראל מפני דרכי שלום



        A Kohen reads first, then a Levi, then a Yisrael, because of the ways of peace.




        The Gemara (ibid. 59b) explains:




        לא שנו אלא בסעודה אבל בבהכ"נ לא דאתו לאינצויי



        They only taught [that one waits to accord respect] by a meal, but in a shul, we do not, for people will come to quarrel.




        When coming to honor the deceased, everyone is obligated to pay their respects, and so there's no concern for quarrel; therefore, the deceased gets the first Aliyah. This is indicated by the Gemara's following question and answer:




        והא רב הונא קרי בכהני בשבתות ויו"ט שאני רב הונא דאפילו רבי אמי ורבי אסי כהני חשיבי דא"י מיכף הוו כייפי ליה



        Rav Huna read the Kohen aliyah on Shabbos and Yom Tov! Rav Huna is different, for even R' Ami and R' Asi, the most distinguished Kohanim in Eretz Yisrael, would bow to him.




        Since everyone would pay respect to Rav Huna, he could take the Kohen aliyah, even without being a Kohen himself. So, too, since everyone pays respect to the deceased, he gets the Kohen aliyah.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 9 hours ago









        DonielFDonielF

        14.7k12481




        14.7k12481























            0














            There is an ancient custom of burying deceased Jews in Israel, dating all the way back to Yaakov Avinu. When people say this phrase, they are expressing their wish that the person will make aliya, so to speak, and be buried in Israel. If the person has already been buried, the bracha is still applicable as even the original occurrence of this practice involved exhuming the body and transporting it to Israel.






            share|improve this answer
























            • This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago











            • @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago
















            0














            There is an ancient custom of burying deceased Jews in Israel, dating all the way back to Yaakov Avinu. When people say this phrase, they are expressing their wish that the person will make aliya, so to speak, and be buried in Israel. If the person has already been buried, the bracha is still applicable as even the original occurrence of this practice involved exhuming the body and transporting it to Israel.






            share|improve this answer
























            • This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago











            • @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago














            0












            0








            0







            There is an ancient custom of burying deceased Jews in Israel, dating all the way back to Yaakov Avinu. When people say this phrase, they are expressing their wish that the person will make aliya, so to speak, and be buried in Israel. If the person has already been buried, the bracha is still applicable as even the original occurrence of this practice involved exhuming the body and transporting it to Israel.






            share|improve this answer













            There is an ancient custom of burying deceased Jews in Israel, dating all the way back to Yaakov Avinu. When people say this phrase, they are expressing their wish that the person will make aliya, so to speak, and be buried in Israel. If the person has already been buried, the bracha is still applicable as even the original occurrence of this practice involved exhuming the body and transporting it to Israel.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 10 hours ago









            DanielDaniel

            15.3k231109




            15.3k231109













            • This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago











            • @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago



















            • This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago











            • @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago

















            This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago





            This doesn't answer the question. He asks which aliyah people should get.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago




            1




            1





            @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

            – DonielF
            9 hours ago





            @DanF It does answer the question. He’s saying that the OP misunderstood the phrase “to get an Aliyah”.

            – DonielF
            9 hours ago













            @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago





            @DonielF Ah, yes. that's implied by the 2nd paragraph.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago











            0














            He gets the Levi aliyah. And this is regardless of whether he's a Levi or not.



            The reason is that in a sense, during yahrtzeit, the spirit or "memory" of the dead person comes back down to Earth to be with the person who has Yahrtzeit. Yes, the dead person's neshama "gets an aliyah", but to get there, he needs a לוייה .



            As a matter of fact, even a Cohen should get the Levi Aliyah and not the Cohen aliyah. Because even Cohanim need a לוייה .






            share|improve this answer


























            • Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago













            • @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago











            • The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

              – Daniel
              9 hours ago











            • I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

              – Nic
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

              – Daniel
              8 hours ago


















            0














            He gets the Levi aliyah. And this is regardless of whether he's a Levi or not.



            The reason is that in a sense, during yahrtzeit, the spirit or "memory" of the dead person comes back down to Earth to be with the person who has Yahrtzeit. Yes, the dead person's neshama "gets an aliyah", but to get there, he needs a לוייה .



            As a matter of fact, even a Cohen should get the Levi Aliyah and not the Cohen aliyah. Because even Cohanim need a לוייה .






            share|improve this answer


























            • Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago













            • @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago











            • The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

              – Daniel
              9 hours ago











            • I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

              – Nic
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

              – Daniel
              8 hours ago
















            0












            0








            0







            He gets the Levi aliyah. And this is regardless of whether he's a Levi or not.



            The reason is that in a sense, during yahrtzeit, the spirit or "memory" of the dead person comes back down to Earth to be with the person who has Yahrtzeit. Yes, the dead person's neshama "gets an aliyah", but to get there, he needs a לוייה .



            As a matter of fact, even a Cohen should get the Levi Aliyah and not the Cohen aliyah. Because even Cohanim need a לוייה .






            share|improve this answer















            He gets the Levi aliyah. And this is regardless of whether he's a Levi or not.



            The reason is that in a sense, during yahrtzeit, the spirit or "memory" of the dead person comes back down to Earth to be with the person who has Yahrtzeit. Yes, the dead person's neshama "gets an aliyah", but to get there, he needs a לוייה .



            As a matter of fact, even a Cohen should get the Levi Aliyah and not the Cohen aliyah. Because even Cohanim need a לוייה .







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 8 hours ago

























            answered 9 hours ago









            DanFDanF

            34k527124




            34k527124













            • Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago













            • @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago











            • The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

              – Daniel
              9 hours ago











            • I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

              – Nic
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

              – Daniel
              8 hours ago





















            • Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

              – DonielF
              9 hours ago













            • @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

              – DanF
              9 hours ago











            • The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

              – Daniel
              9 hours ago











            • I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

              – Nic
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

              – Daniel
              8 hours ago



















            Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

            – DonielF
            9 hours ago







            Don’t we make a חילוק between before death and after death? What Aliyah do Leviim get? Also, מעלים בקודש ולא מורידין - why do Kohanim get downgraded to Levi?

            – DonielF
            9 hours ago















            @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago





            @DonielF See the 2nd sentence. I said whether you're a Levi or not. See new edits above.

            – DanF
            9 hours ago













            The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

            – Daniel
            9 hours ago





            The question was about what aliya the deceased should get.

            – Daniel
            9 hours ago













            I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

            – Nic
            9 hours ago





            I would have thought that לויית המת refers to the "levi aliya that you give a dead person".

            – Nic
            9 hours ago




            1




            1





            @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

            – Daniel
            8 hours ago







            @Nic That seems reasonable. But if the deceased is a kohein, it seems to me that he should also get the kohein aliya, lest someone think the kohein who did get that aliya was pasul

            – Daniel
            8 hours ago





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